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Goodwe 4.6 tripping when running a microwave during power outages


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Has anyone had asimilar problem? Is there an obvious solution? "I have 2 x 3.5w pylontechs and a Goodwe 5048 D inverter. During power outages my AEG microwave that's labelled to consume 1100 w trips the inverter, that should be able to handle 4600 VA or 20 amp, and 6900 VA for 10 sec.  Feedback from the overseas AEG factory is that the microwave draws 10 amps during startup, well within the Goodwe spec.  AEG have suggested that the diameter and length of wire could be a problem, also asked about "protection" run by Goodwe and other loads.  At most we have about 500 wh being used on an ongoing basis. The shielded wire including plastic sheath is 12 mm and distance probably 25 m from inverter to DB board, the wire does get hot to the touch.  A dealer that I contacted thought it could be the batteries...as I understand the recommended charge/discharge current is 37 A.  The microwave works well when the grid is up.  Should the system be able work? Any suggestions?

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Your batteries can theoretically deliver a maximum of 37Ax2x48V =3552W. That's at 100% , 1C, for which they are not made. With 2 batteries you can probably get 55A max draw.

So 55Ax48V = 2640W DC.

At 230V AC , 2650W=11A...

Looks like your advertised startup current is too close to max draw that the batteries allow. Also I think the startup draw will be higher than 10A.

You need at least 1 more battery = sums to 111A, which allows for about 80A max draw.

In short, your system is not "balanced"...Inveter is capable of asking for more than your batteries can deliver. When it can't get what it wants to meet demand it trips. It's a battery issue not an inverter issue.

I bet your wife's hairdryer will do the same...

 

Edited by FixAMess
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I have the Sunsynk 5 kW inverter with two Pylontech 2.4 KWh batteries, they are each listed at 25 amps for a total of 50 amps, my microwave draws 1650 watts and never had a problem with the system tripping, I have seen the system draw up to 48 amps from the batteries.

 Only time I had a system shut down was on a rainy day and load shedding, where the wife turned on BOTH the microwave and kettle at the same time, and as when the load was switched off the system reset it self

Edited by Tariq
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Have a GoodWe 5048D and 2x US3000b 3.5kWh batteries.

During power outages we are able to use the Microwave or Kettle or Dishwasher. We only ever have 1 high drawing appliance go on out of habit and never had the system trip,

@BGbhave you checked if there are errors logged by the inverter after?

Also on what firmware version are you?
I think I was fine on 1818 firmware but now on 2121A its also fine.

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Thanks Tinuva My firmware is 1212112.  Also checked the Goodwe data export, load definitely about 500w.  Power outages occurred at about 18h00, we did not notice power was off, wife wanted to heat food in microwave at 18h20 and tripped inverter!  Took me a while to get system up.  Don't think the battery capacity is an issue according to Pylontech US3000 spec one battery should be able to deliver 100a for 15 sec during peak discharge.  It is possible that the system may not be balanced, however I  did not want to spend further R19k! Any other thoughts?

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So perform the scenario again,  disconnect mains and then.turn on the mwave and see what Amps the battery is discharging at.

The max your inverter backup is rated for is 4600W, 95A from the battery, 20A nominal AC.

Also test a hairdryer by itself and see what happens, maybe your mwave is suspect. 

I have 3 pylontechs, the max I've ever seen them discharge at is 83A.

Also, you can pull a report that will show you if any faults were logged by the inverter.

 

Edited by FixAMess
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It's not really a fault report . If you pull a historic Data export from the inverter under reports  it will show "Fault" under Work Mode ( if there's a fault) You can also see V and I (A) of the backup circuit at the time of the incident.

 

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Thanks @FixAMessI extracted the report it does indeed show Fault and then Wait as the inverter rebooted after turning connection to grid back on, I can't see a difference in the backup circuit but not sure what I'm looking for.  What was interesting is that the microwave ran for probably 5 seconds (not precise) before tripping the inverter, so looks like inverter/batteries could not provide current but perhaps microwave power draw did not drop to 1100 w. Checked the latter with CEF's utility for the Goodwe, (shows power use), looks like the microwave draws about 1800 w for more than 10 seconds, in total power use was about 2500  w.  Will repeat again tomorrow for longer period, however still does not explain tripping.

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Buying another smaller microwave will work out cheaper than making changes to your batteries or inverter. Sell your current microwave to someone who doesn't have solar or inverter at home.

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Guys, correct me if I am wrong, i don't see why you can't use the microwave during load shedding with TWO 3.5 kWh batteries I use a 1650 watt microwave with two 2.4 kWh batteries during load shedding, only difference is I have a 5 kW Sunsynk, but that should not be a factor anyway.

@BGb, you mentioned the wires getting hot to the touch ???

 

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Posted (edited)

I used CEF's utility again the microwave definitely uses closer to 1700 to 1800 w not the 1100 w quoted by AEG when using the 1 min automated setting.  I will check with AEG how they determined consumption, it looks a bit suspect, however I don't have proper calibrated tools....  We scaled down from a Samsung to the AEG to try and reduce power.  We normally don't use power hungry appliances during outages when the suns not shining to conserve battery power as we don't know how long the power will be off.  Our municipal power infrastructure has not been maintained, we had no power for 6 days over new year.  

Edited by BGb
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Your 2500W draw is [email protected], probably closer to 55A with AC to DC losses etc.

Tight, but should still be doable. Your mwave might be drawing a huge current on startup, I'm not sure if a mwave has a startup current or not.

Log a call with Goodwe support and let them check for issues and upgrade the firmware to the latest version...

Do the same test with a kettle, see what it draws and if it trips the inverter. My mwave + 2000W hairdryer on startup trips my inverter..

 

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Like Tariq mentioned, the wires getting hot to the touch ???

wires should never get that hot, check if the wire size is correct and check if all connections are tight. The 220V output wire from inverter should be at least 2.5mm2 but go for 4mm2 on longer distances. I have one Pylontech Us 3000 and have no issue on a 4KW Axpert inverter. I use 2.5mm2 wire from the inverter to the DB and than it’s about another 35meter from the DB to the microwave. I did however remove my microwave circuit over to non-essentials because I noticed through battery-view the microwave went up to 49A and pylon’s only recommend 37A.So when I get a second battery I will again include the microwave to essentials but one pylon can work without tripping.

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8 hours ago, BGb said:

I used CEF's utility again the microwave...

Hi.

In the indicated image sector, you will be able to observe the highest value of instantaneous amps drained from the Battery (negative value) that the inverter registers 1 second or less (depending on the time configured in Parameters: "polling rate") before performing a cut on the loads side of BackUp. (Inverter trip). It is also indicated in the corresponding column of the detected restart event Log.

Example.jpg

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14 hours ago, FixAMess said:

I'm not sure if a mwave has a startup current or not.

Some do, if they are the old iron transformer type. There is a significant magnetising current, similar to a motor start-up inrush current. I suspect that they're still in the majority, particularly among economy models.

Those that have an inverter built in, usually they will proudly say so on the front,  have negligible start-up current.

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Posted (edited)

Thanks everyone for the feedback. I followed @Cef suggestion to document the highest amps drained from the battery. I had to install the utility on a notebook as my desktop runs of battery backup power when I turn off municipal supply. Turns out -31.4 amps was used.  The inverter/battery kept the microwave going for 15 sec and then tripped.  The Goodwe can supply 6900 VA for 10 sec or 30 Amps at 230 volt for 10 seconds, no wonder it tripped.  My model of microwave is made specially for the South African market, perhaps mine is faulty or perhaps this is a place where you can sell "old" technology.  Is there another method to test what power is drawn by the microwave?  What do I do now?

Microwave AMPS 5 April 2021 18h50.jpg

Edited by BGb
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12 hours ago, BGb said:

Thanks everyone for the feedback. I followed @Cef suggestion to document the highest amps drained from the battery. I had to install the utility on a notebook as my desktop runs of battery backup power when I turn off municipal supply. Turns out -31.4 amps was used.  The inverter/battery kept the microwave going for 15 sec and then tripped.  The Goodwe can supply 6900 VA for 10 sec or 30 Amps at 230 volt for 10 seconds, no wonder it tripped.  My model of microwave is made specially for the South African market, perhaps mine is faulty or perhaps this is a place where you can sell "old" technology.  Is there another method to test what power is drawn by the microwave?  What do I do now?

Microwave AMPS 5 April 2021 18h50.jpg

Hook up a power monitoring plug, such as a Sonoff POW or kill-a-watt, or connect one of the efergy units. Where do you stay?

Edit: I missed the most obvious, old-school solution. A standard electrical clamp meter will work too

Edited by Speedster
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@BGb

While you can do all of these exercises, now that you found going over 31A you basically know what the issue is.

Your current AEG microwave is probably not an inverter-based microwave. Usually smaller/cheaper microwaves are not. 
When running on batteries and solar, it is in your best interest to make sure as many of your appliances in your house is inverter-based appliances. They then also usually use less power (including less AMP and watt). Examples are fridges, aircons, microwaves etc.

Rather sell that microwave if you can. Go and buy one that specifically state it is an inverter-based microwave. Convection microwave is the opposite of an inverter-based microwave.

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13 hours ago, BGb said:

Thanks everyone for the feedback. I followed @Cef suggestion to document the highest amps drained from the battery. I had to install the utility on a notebook as my desktop runs of battery backup power when I turn off municipal supply. Turns out -31.4 amps was used.  The inverter/battery kept the microwave going for 15 sec and then tripped.  The Goodwe can supply 6900 VA for 10 sec or 30 Amps at 230 volt for 10 seconds, no wonder it tripped.  My model of microwave is made specially for the South African market, perhaps mine is faulty or perhaps this is a place where you can sell "old" technology.  Is there another method to test what power is drawn by the microwave?  What do I do now?

Microwave AMPS 5 April 2021 18h50.jpg

 

Remember, the 31amps is DC (Battery which is at 48V), so is only 31Ax48V = 1488W (which is not much), the 6900VA (@230) you mentioned is AC current...

6900VA DC at battery would = 143A at the battery which is highly unlikely, since the Goodwe can only draw a max of 100A from the battery (as per the spec sheet)

1488W @ 230 V = 6.5A DC current....So you went from 31A DC to 6.5A AC, the different voltages then account for the power delivered being the same.

Frankly, your inverter should have coped with the 31A Battery draw, unless that was the draw just to turn the mWave lights on and then something else started up and it drew more than the 31A?? Like others have said you should check your wiring as well...

Interesting issue......

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Thanks @P1000 and @FixAMessfor pointing out that the -31,4 amps was at the battery, (thats about 1500 w).  The reason for tripping still not known, the microwave probably not the problem, so it could be the inverter, battery, wiring, (individually or in combination).

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