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Lithium Titanate Oxide Battery


Lithium Titanate Oxide Vs Lithium Iron Phosphate  

9 members have voted

  1. 1. LTO Vs LiFePO4

    • Lithium Titanate Oxide ( 2 -3 X the price of LiFePO4)
      3
    • Lithium Iron Phosphate
      6


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Hi Forumites

Was actually testing the waters & wanted to get the important perception of LTO ( Lithium Titanate Oxide) batteries. For those that have not ever seen any stats on these. They boast 25000 cycles, high C charge & discharge rates of up to 10C. Because of this feature basically you can turn your inverter onto high charge rates without fear of damaging the cells. They really shape up to be a promising option. Will Prowse did a special on one of his shows about them. The first batch he got he basically tested incorrectly & then in the second follow up conceded his mistakes & then admitted to the chemistry being a major breakthrough. One very big catch though in the whole scheme of things is that the price comes in at close to 2 to 3 times the price of LiFePO4.

Would be great to share the opinions of some of the Gurus on the subject. The cost Vs longevity Vs what might be available in another 5 years in terms of battery tech. I'm convinced though that LiFePO4 might become the next lead Acids in terms of old yesterdays tech. 

 

Which would you rather opt for? Given the choice, which would you rather want available on the SA market? 

87

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, 87 Dream said:

I'm convinced though that LiFePO4 might become the next lead Acids in terms of old yesterdays tech. 

LFP may be getting a second wind. It seems that someone has discovered a way to make them nearly as energy dense as NMC, so they are starting to use them in electric vehicles, including Teslas. They're being touted as "cobalt free"; it seems that cobalt is getting a little scarce.

With research focusing on LFP for cars (a huge market, about to become much larger), the trickle-down to solar storage may make LFP more attractive again. The 2-3x price differential will put off a lot of buyers. Especially with battery technology developing at a high rate. Not Moore's law of semiconductors fast, but fast compared to most things.

But I'm no battery expert.

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I have to completely agree with you Coulomb. Since CATL ( Contemporary Amperex Tech. China) as the number 1 producer for LFP it's looks like another good period of continuity will prevail yet. The suppliers in China basically mass produce for CATL & these feed demand for BMW, Mercedes & Tesla. These then trickle through for solar applications in the solar storage market also. Yes Charge rates need to be watched like 0.5C but then again a decent enough size of battery bank will still give you pretty good numbers. It has to have affordability to it otherwise unfortunately the market will not follow. 

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I am no battery / storage expert, but from a consumer perspective, I love the fact that alternative storage technologies are being researched (and available and priced, even if out of reach). Newer tech will always initially be far more expensive (regardless of Moore's Law), but economies of scale in manufacturing (due to sustained demand), as well as more efficient design (innovation) and free market competition will drive prices down. This in turn will also drive down prices of LFP in the same way that the economic feasibility of LFP drives down the cost of LA.  On the downside, it puts our longevity planning out (as mortals, we are time-bound 🙂), and messes with our sums, but TBH I'd hate the industry to be static. I love the fact that new storage tech is being researched and I am excited about LTO, as well as other storage tech.

 

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The biggest issue so far is that the LTO cells come in the biggest variety as 40ah. So you will need quite a few & also because this makes for quite an arrangement of busbar & cabling. But this battery will reach our shores one way or the other. The are much safer also in terms of exposure to oxygen they do not ignite. 

Will definitely try to make a feasible cost study & see the pricing differences but I am pretty sure that people will opt for capacity over longevity.  Especially when one compares a 10yrs warranty & 80% battery health left after that period. But the fast charging principles of LTO & high C discharge & charge rates make it a winner in certain applications. 

The conundrum is to find the sweet spot in the market...

87

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On 2021/04/09 at 9:48 PM, 87 Dream said:

the price comes in at close to 2 to 3 times the price of LiFePO4

ok, show me were to get the LiFePO4's at 1/2 to 1/3 of price of LTO's, I'm looking at app. R 70k for 15kW usable 48V LTO, for between R 23k and R35k for a 15kW usable LiFePO4 setup, it may just be an option... methinks...

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Hi Kalahari

Not sure that you can find usable Grade A brand new LiFePO4 for 23-35K for 15Kwh. It's more close to double this price. Depending on which commercial brands & suppliers you find. At this point in time there are only 2 LTO suppliers abroad that I have seen. Probably if more joined the supply chain then pricing will be driven down.

I may be wrong with the pricing aspect, please share these sources if you are able.

87

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If they are the next best thing, you might as well buy LiFePo4 now, and by the time you have to replace them, the LTO price would have dropped so much that it works out cheaper.

With batteries that have a longer life, the risk of them failing due to something else also increases a lot (longer life = more time to develop another issue). Most of the failures of LiFePo4 you hear about is not related to end-of-life, so with that in mind, I would be hesitant to spend 3x the money on something that might last longer.

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Well some back ground on the companies that are marketing them. Yinlong comes from the experience of making Electric buses in the Chinese market. Established in 2009. If you have ever been to China, you will know how heat is a major problem for them. They also needed batteries especially in the commercial transport industry that could handle fast charge rates. Hence these batteries can handle in some cases up to 15C rates which means rapid charges, without dramatically affecting the lifespan of the said battery. The are also the safest type of lithium battery available & do not combust nor explode if punctured. 

Lishen is the other manufacturer established in 1997. They specialise in the manufacturing of LFP, Super Capacitors & also LTO. Couple this to an good warranty system & this becomes interesting.

As cautious as we might be, I think the battery evolution is upon us & this will be a very interesting future to watch. Most especially because charging an EV must get as fast a filling up gas at a gas station otherwise what is the point. With this in mind the home solar storage sector benefits with this tech which is being rolled out. 

I agree with the sentiment let's sit on our hands & watch it unfold.

87

 

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