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Advice on Sunsynk 8kw Install recommendation and best battery to start with


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Good Morning, I had bought the 8kw Sunsynk, and now have 12 x 450w LG panels installed in 2 x 6. I have to connect this to my DB board but would like a qualified installer / electrician to install. I have done all the groundwork of putting on the wall , adding trunking from the DB to Sunsynk. Its in my couryard about 6meters away. My DB is three (3) phase but I only want to install single and move the essencial circuits and the backfeed to one of the phases. I was hoping to use the system during he day without batteries or grid but I saw Vassen or Achmed (thank you for all your informative Posts) say if no batterys , no working on just solar standalone. 2nd Question. Batteries I dont have and seems I need to start if I want to power the load while I get the DB re-wired (no Power for a day).  I am in Olivedale Randburg area. Would probably need a approved installer with Electrisian quali to certify. Thanks , forgive me if its in the wrong post as I joined this week. Ryan

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20 minutes ago, RyanG said:

DB re-wired (no Power for a day)

Any competent electrician should be able to have you powering essential loads fairly quickly, no more than hour outage I'd say, but one would have to look at all you need doing, but you should not need battery power for a whole day... if all you want/need are batteries otherwise, that allow the inverter to provide power whilst the commercial power is down and the sun is shining, you can probably get away with something fairly small, 1 or 2kW/h, but ideally it needs to be able to deliver current, basically if your load varies wildly, dishwasher turning on heater element, you turning on the kettle... the MPPT is not able to respond quick enough to cover this with the solar panels, that's where a battery needs to be able to deliver some current for a few seconds, to make up the shortfall, until the MPPT/solar side is up to speed and generating the power needed... (Worse loads are big mototrs starting, think big-ish compressor, for 1 or 2 seconds this can draw 2 or 3 kW or even more easily, even though the motor may only be rated at 1kW, electric lawnmower hitting a denser patch... 4kW or more short term peak...) For this kind of scenario a 1kW LTO cell based battery would be perfect, the 1kW LTO's should be capable to 5kW sustained power and peak even more, but since you only need this very short term, this is the kind of solution LTO's are ideal for, but I have yet to see any complete products, other than individual cells for sale for home brewing your own battery...

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Hello Guys, Once again thank you for your replies so quickly, Vassen, you should be my installer with all that knowledge , May I ask about this comment @, If you are planning to add batteries later on, maybe look at finding some almost dead LA , what is a Almost dead LA? American? LOL 😀 Where do you get a dead LA? And Aahhh  so the battery is needed to complete the Solar to Load start voltage during the day if no grid.

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How about the two 102AH lead batteries I use in load shedding for my WiFi and Laptop. Working from home. Connect them until the DB is wired in the Day. batteries to buy? Hubble  , Pylon , Dyness supported. I am not understanding the CAN terminology versus the other supported , (Something like 8 xxx) Hearing from Vassen the sooner the batteries the better. I dont know my usage as yet but 5kwh to start, Costs are always the limiting factor.

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Hey Vassen, thank you for your comments. I learned about the Can battery today. As I was not going to buy I had to use my other mentor (appart from you,  that is) Google. Looking at just getting a battery because I understand now from you and meerkat the importance of a battery and how its used. I have one last question (My mentor google does not give a great explanation) So may I ask Vassen the mentor. Neutral line and earth line. I Know this is really a electrician question and thank you already for the answer. You have the neutral and earth at the substation bonded. On your DB they read zero N > E (mine does) If the electrician wires to the input of the inverter from the DB to inverter N > L > E. Do you bond all the earths. PV > GRid > Load. How do the neutrals work. I have read that some bond them all as well and only separate the Live. But I am suspecting thats highly dangerous. They  did it as it trips the Main Circuit Earth Leakage if you dont. This is probably covered somewhere but while I have your ear. ....... Keep well

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8 minutes ago, RyanG said:

Hey Vassen, thank you for your comments. I learned about the Can battery today. As I was not going to buy I had to use my other mentor (appart from you,  that is) Google. Looking at just getting a battery because I understand now from you and meerkat the importance of a battery and how its used. I have one last question (My mentor google does not give a great explanation) So may I ask Vassen the mentor. Neutral line and earth line. I Know this is really a electrician question and thank you already for the answer. You have the neutral and earth at the substation bonded. On your DB they read zero N > E (mine does) If the electrician wires to the input of the inverter from the DB to inverter N > L > E. Do you bond all the earths. PV > GRid > Load. How do the neutrals work. I have read that some bond them all as well and only separate the Live. But I am suspecting thats highly dangerous. They  did it as it trips the Main Circuit Earth Leakage if you dont. This is probably covered somewhere but while I have your ear. ....... Keep well

Hi Ryan. 
 

Regarding Hubble, they really do provide better support than Pylontech. Bear in mind that even though it’s a local company, their cells are made by BYD which in my opinion is far better than Pylontech. BYD has also been around 15 years longer than Pylontech. You have the 8kw Sunsynk so even if you had 4 x US3000C’s, you would only be able to draw 7000w from an 8000w inverter. If you had 2 x AM2 Hubble’s, you can easily draw 8000w from your Sunsynk. 
 

 

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4 hours ago, Vassen said:

As Tariq mentioned, you need 4 of them. 
 

I have pylontechs, I started with 2 us3000, then after some time I added another and last week I bought another. They work well for. 
 

Dyness is almost the same, looks the same and from what I understand was a breakaway from Pylontech.
 

There’s also Hubble which seems good but I dislike as it’s a local brand and I don’t know if they will be around in a few years. I’m not anti local, just anti “not having support when I need it”. There’s also BSL bull batteries which are well rated. 
 

Actually if you look at the sunsynk manual, they list the batteries that they have tested to work out of the box. 
 

the nice thing about the tested battery comms is that you plug a cable into the battery, other end into the inverter and set the protocol number.... inverter takes care of the rest. 

Thank you Vassen, I understand your local dealer fears. When I looked for a Inverter from a company I would look at the registration company date to make sure they are reputable. A online company that has 2020 registration selling solar has no guarantee track record. Will they be around in 5 years when you need them to help with warrantee claims. who are the importers of Pylontech or do they have South African presence.  Did you see my Neutral line post?

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7 minutes ago, Vassen said:

😂 Your neutral earth post is funny. 
 

I’m no expert, I just share what I have learnt along the way with my install. 
 

Regarding Hubble, from what I have read, they are pretty good. A bit hard to find proper documentation, when I looked, but everyone that uses them seems happy. For me, the reality is that we live in South Africa, people can decide to leave the country, get killed and businesses close down. What’s the business continuity plan afterwards. Irrespective of how good the cells are or who makes them, if the battery fails, we can’t go to the supplier of the cells. I’m in no way trying to put them down like the thread that put the pylontech down by showing a crappy build quality and afterwards we see other posts with really good internal build quality. I’m just stating my concerns. I’ve got 3 batteries on sunsynk 5kw. One should also design a system according to the manufacturer specifications. You cannot incorrectly design a system and then complain that the warranty is void or the manufacturer didn’t honor the claim when the guidelines are not followed  

Anyway, regarding the question about the earth bond. Yes, the neutral and earth is bonded at the distribution box on the street and a separate neutral and earth enters your property, in most cases. When the grid is on, this bond is present so everything works as it should. However, when the grid fails, the inverter will then operate in islanding mode where the grid input is disconnected, so that bond is no longer present. This is when you can end up with unsafe voltages on the neutral line. So what we do is bond the inverter output (load neutral) to the earth and we use the ATS 240 pin of the inverter to close the earth bond relay contact. When the grid returns, the ATS 240 pins turn off after 60 seconds and the earth-neutral bond is broken. All AC earths are common between the grid side and the load side. However, neutral is separate. You have the grid side neutral which is taken before the main dB earth leakage. The output of the inverter, live and neutral, then goes to a separate earth leakage for your essential loads. If you are using the aux output, then you would need another earth leakage for that output. 
 

Another thing, DC earths from the solar panels should not be connected to the AC earths but should rather go to an earth spike in the ground. This is because in the event of a lightning strike, you do not really want to create a path for power to flow from the panels to the AC earth and fry everything else in your house. New regulations also require that all DC solar cables should be installed in metal enclosures, so trunking or sprag. I did not do this when I first installed but I’m busy sorting this out now. 
 

Hope this helps.
 

Again, I’m no expert, just what I have learned along the way. Just be careful, there are lots of installers that will just connect the system, power it on, give you a piece of paper that’s supposed to be a COC and then leave. When something goes wrong, insurance investigates and finds something not according to spec, and you find yourself on your own. 

Thank our mentor of all things solar. I never understood the neutral requirements, and the earth bond would have been to the house and inverter. I keep asking more and more. Much appreciated.  My solar panels DC wires are under the tile roof. Are you putting in steel trunking all the way to the inverter from the panels for these DC wires. You should give up your night job and do installations. You would be worth the money.😂😂. I saw somewhere you need a 3rd install. Have you got my address?

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How are things these days in Dainfern, I have only been there once for petrol at the sasol 😃. I never even heard of Sprag and checked with my Mentor Google who showed me Sprag. Then I saw litegrow, My fav electrical hangout sell that stuff in a metal sleeve. So i thought. Does the other mentor use this stuff, and sure enough, he does 🤣 > again I have learned something .

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12 hours ago, Vassen said:

Not Dainfern. Little closer to the N1. 
 

I got mine from the local AC/DC express. Comes in 30m lengths. 

Hey Mentor, where did you get your Batteries from.? Thanks man

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On 2021/05/28 at 10:21 AM, RyanG said:

Hey Mentor, where did you get your Batteries from.? Thanks man

Can your “mentor of all things solar” educate us on which SANS regulation states that PV cables must be in metal enclosures. Thanks in advance to the mentorship. 

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On 2021/05/27 at 9:19 PM, Vassen said:

🤣 I’m just down the road or up the road from you depending which way you look at it. 
 

I also have some of my panels on a tile roof. I’m using 20mm metal sprag from panels to the combiner box which is next to the inverter. Metal spray is then placed inside pvc trunking so it looks neat. 

Hey there, I am ready to buy the Battery, Hubble has not impressed me reading on this forum the approach to problems, May I get some help on pylon batteries. I see other people are trying to get in on this mentor-ship thing but are they up to date with the mentor membership fees? Pylon is what I am going to get, I am considering  what you have. The US3000c R17K (Whats different with the US3000B vs 3000C?, the B it is slightly more expensive) and the UPS5000 at 24k , only because in future it takes up less footprint per KWh. I read about  your Price per KWh vs discharge rate. I belong to a company that could order from Sagen but the price we get as a small company puts someone like GAsolar in midrand better pricing on the same products.  

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24 minutes ago, RyanG said:

Hey there, I am ready to buy the Battery, Hubble has not impressed me reading on this forum the approach to problems, May I get some help on pylon batteries. I see other people are trying to get in on this mentor-ship thing but are they up to date with the mentor membership fees? Pylon is what I am going to get, I am considering  what you have. The US3000c R17K (Whats different with the US3000B vs 3000C?, the B it is slightly more expensive) and the UPS5000 at 24k , only because in future it takes up less footprint per KWh. I read about  your Price per KWh vs discharge rate. I belong to a company that could order from Sagen but the price we get as a small company puts someone like GAsolar in midrand better pricing on the same products.  

I have the US3000C. It’s a great battery but seriously bro, where does your mentor get his info from on the metal enclosures. We all wanna learn unless this is a chat for only you okes

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9 minutes ago, Vassen said:

i dont have the latest SANS regulations, just what i have found online. Please see the attached document page 36 ( h), and page 37 section 5.3.5. 

If you speak to a proper registered solar installer, they will advise the same. Look at the forum for @YellowTapemeasureinstall. You will see all PV cables are run in metal tubing from the roof to the inverter. 

SANS-10142-1-2-Rev-U-01042019.docx 1.97 MB · 1 download

Would be nice to see a legal doc and not a draft. U know that a draft isn’t law right?

 

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2 minutes ago, Vassen said:

Yip, I know that a draft is not a legal document. 

This was just to show a reference based on what i have heard from reliable sources.  

Unfortunately, I have no reason to spend over 1K on a standard that i will not use in the future. Perhaps someone else may have the September 2020 version.  

Ur draft doc says that if pv cables are longer than 50m then it shall be in metal conduit. Looks like if it’s shorter than 50m then it doesn’t need to be.  5.3.5 says where conduit is used it shall be metal so what if it’s not used then what

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24 minutes ago, Rajesh said:

Would be nice to see a legal doc and not a draft. U know that a draft isn’t law right?

 

In your three (and only) posts, you haven't contributed much to the topic on hand, except for a statement of the obvious. Your tone is also disrespectful to members who do make great contributions. Whilst it is good to challenge things, consider doing it respectfully.

It's unclear to me what your motives are other than seeking conflict.

 

 

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27 minutes ago, Vassen said:

Sorry, been a busy weekend installing more panels and trying to get my second inverter up and running... still not done though.

The C is the later version and the one you should get. They are both almost the same except the C version has a 95% DoD vs the 80% on the non C version. 

I have 2 US3000 which I started of with, then got another C version in November last year and another C last week. I dont like the US5000 as the warranty is lower and the number of cycles is also lower 4500 vs 6000. Other than that, there's no cost benefit. 

There are lots of places having specials on the US3000C currently for around R16100 from the place you dislike. Others may be able to match that though.

No problem, I was in two minds on the 5000 to the 3000 as the 3.0kwh (95% dod) will only give me about 4 hours at night on a rough calc. Need to see real world

 

37 minutes ago, Vassen said:

Sorry, been a busy weekend installing more panels and trying to get my second inverter up and running... still not done though.

The C is the later version and the one you should get. They are both almost the same except the C version has a 95% DoD vs the 80% on the non C version. 

I have 2 US3000 which I started of with, then got another C version in November last year and another C last week. I dont like the US5000 as the warranty is lower and the number of cycles is also lower 4500 vs 6000. Other than that, there's no cost benefit. 

There are lots of places having specials on the US3000C currently for around R16100 from the place you dislike. Others may be able to match that though.

, I am going to need to get two upfront. Just means I have to wait a bit longer. I was also doing work this weekend getting the DB more modern. I have a 1972 DB board with those old old DB switches that I started replacing some time back. I have so much space when I replace them as they are two wide and huge. The DB is looking really tidy and getting ready for a installer. Need to find one . How many do you need to be a Qauli?? One short isnt it? 😂 . Not counting the hundereds you have helped us online.

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32 minutes ago, Vassen said:

Yip, I know that a draft is not a legal document. 

This was just to show a reference based on what i have heard from reliable sources.  

Unfortunately, I have no reason to spend over 1K on a standard that i will not use in the future. Perhaps someone else may have the September 2020 version.  

By the way. I am pretty good at climbing on a roof, Would love to give back for all your kindness and time , can I help  .... and I only demand coffee , Milk no sugar .

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22 minutes ago, YellowTapemeasure said:

Very innovative. East facing?

really man, thats a pretty scary picture. I can see how high that is. BUT someone has to help carry the panel up there ....💪. My offer stands to help. I see you used  what looks like renusol?? in mounting. and had to make your own wall mounting system.Very neat and brave. I have the clips on my PV, Geyserwise geyser setup , and 2nd time around I used renusol which is much easier to use, I ordered one roof mount and decided that I cant put this under my tiles as its so thick and big. So I made a jig and welded my own roof mounts with a modified version of the clip in rail roof hook , but on renusol rails. Because I did my own roof hooks in rust proof steel, its much more cost effective. And I could simplify the roof hook.

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1 hour ago, Vassen said:

Yip. I had to move my north facing string as my neighbors trees create too much shading. 
 

East / West works great in summer but is really really bad in winter though. From a peak of around 35kwh in summer time I’m down to 17 current
 

Added the second inverter and have a  string of 8x360w in the west roof but haven’t powered on yet. Tried to this afternoon but kept getting errors and could not change the modbus id on the new inverter for some reason. Will check with Sunsynk support during the week. 

Very interesting that, thank you for sharing. I knew that East >-< West was good, never knew that it was seasonal too, sharing your experience helps a lot of us.

I am also pretty sure that you will get many PMs about your "invisible" David Copperfield mounts 😀. May be a good idea to share a quick sketch?

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