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Best electric geyser replacement


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6 minutes ago, Leshen said:

Personally, I’m glad I have just an electric geyser which is powered by the sun via my Sunsynk. 
 

The both geysers (thermostat at 70deg) come on at 9am and go off at 4pm and we always have hot water morning and night. 
 

 

Except on bad solar days. Or weeks like we had in Feb.

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3 minutes ago, YellowTapemeasure said:

I wouldn't call it a contradiction though, just a poor explanation. In the conventional heat pump the condenser coils (heat source) are right next to the polyurethane, separated by air. In the EMS heat pump, the heat source coils are right in the centre, and is separated by water, and the stainless steel riffled pipe coil, and the fibreglass shell, before reaching the polyurethane layer through the air. To me it is a far more efficient way of transferring heat, the former would have greater heat losses.

Agreed. But how would that geyser heat water if the grid wasn’t available. So the downside is it needs electricity to work so you would need a PV solution of some sort when the grid isn’t available. 
 

With evac tubes, all you need is the sun. But yes, each has its pros and cons. 

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3 minutes ago, YellowTapemeasure said:

Except on bad solar days. Or weeks like we had in Feb.

Yes true for solar but that’s when the grid takes over and heats the water. 

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1 minute ago, Leshen said:

Agreed. But how would that geyser heat water if the grid wasn’t available. So the downside is it needs electricity to work so you would need a PV solution of some sort when the grid isn’t available. 
 

With evac tubes, all you need is the sun. But yes, each has its pros and cons. 

I agree with a combination approach, also agreed that simplest is best. So a fire pit with a donkie, fed with the branches of the tree that was cut down because it shaded the panels.

https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/03/8f/8b/0b/brandberg-white-lady.jpg

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Posted (edited)

This is interesting. I have a 5kw of panels and a 200L with 12 useless tubes. I am looking to get another geyser as the current is not big enough for 4 people and guests at times. 

 

What would be the best solution for me? I was thinking another 200L electric geyser with a time and switch both geysers on during the day from 10:00 to 14:00 back to back. Now learning about heat pumps I am reconsidering the idea. 

Edited by nightcrawlernic
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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Vassen said:

Extra hot water storage is best if you already have PV. How much excess PV do you have and do you have room to expand. 

By 11:00 my 5kw battery is full, so i cycle it through out the day because of the 4kw element on my current geyser. By 16:00 its full again. 

I have room to expand. One side of the garage and another bedroom, but they facing south. For this i am looking to get another 5kw sunsynk 

Edited by nightcrawlernic
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Thanks guys. It looks like I will go back to the donkey system since I have endless doringhout supply. (Just kidding). I have heard about a solar element, 2kw during suntime and 1kw during no sun. Looks like the cheapest option too.

Ps 5kw PV, 5kw Axpert + 10kw Revov

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2 hours ago, Vassen said:

You has a cold water inlet which gets water from the bottom of the geyser and the hot water outlet of the heatpump goes to the hot water outlet of the geyser. You are meant to pull cold water from the bottom of the geyser and return the hot water to the top of the geyser. As mentioned, you generally use a diverter valve which is like a t piece. Water circulates in the heatpump until it gets hot enough and then the diverter vale opens and sends this water to the geyser. Cold water comes in and the valve closes and the process repeats.

I have 2 heat pumps (came with the house) but this diverter valve was never installed, consequently, when the pump is running and you are taking a shower, the heat pump will take water from the cold inlet and basically pass it through on the hot water side (as you explained), but no hot water is coming from the tank itself.

So you end up having a luke warm shower - very frustrating.

Mine is now connected to take water from the hot outlet and put it back on the cold inlet and I make sure the pump is not running when we want to use the water.

I have a ITS and an alliance. The ITS works really well and generally draws between 1.1 and 1.5kw - so can even run it off the batteries

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Hi guys. If I may add to this topic. I have a Kwikot geyser and I installed a 1.5kW twin PTC element as a replacement for the old resistive type element and the results is great.

Less power consumed and the water still gets to temperature at about the same time a conventional element takes to heat up the water.

The other part of the PTC element is a DC element rated at 950watts so it can run off a 48V battery.

Its a good way to save on energy. Geyserwise is the place I got mine from.

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29 minutes ago, branderplank said:

I have 2 heat pumps (came with the house) but this diverter valve was never installed, consequently, when the pump is running and you are taking a shower, the heat pump will take water from the cold inlet and basically pass it through on the hot water side (as you explained), but no hot water is coming from the tank itself.

So you end up having a luke warm shower - very frustrating.

Mine is now connected to take water from the hot outlet and put it back on the cold inlet and I make sure the pump is not running when we want to use the water.

I have a ITS and an alliance. The ITS works really well and generally draws between 1.1 and 1.5kw - so can even run it off the batteries

That's why I prefer my integrated vertically standing heat pump, and also why I will replace it with another when it eventually bombs out.

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2 hours ago, Vassen said:

Nah, that’s just a bad install. Installer tried to save 800 bucks and didn’t fit the diverter valve. I don’t have any issues with mine with regards to hot and cold water. 

So I need a diverter valve, and a beefy pump that consumes electricity and can push hot water into storage, and cold water back to the heat pump, rinse and repeat, all day?

It's starting to sound complex. Donkie wins.

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13 hours ago, Vassen said:

I guess it will work but i don’t think very efficiently as instead of keeping the hot water at the top of the geyser, you keep mixing the hot and cold water constantly. That’s just my understanding though. 

The guy I used has been doing this for many years and swears by this approach.

So if the pump runs from 14:00 to 16:00, usually takes about 1 - 1.5 hours to heat up to 54 C (measured at the bottom of the tank) and you invariable give it a chance to settle since you will only use the water from 17:30 when you need to bath the kids.

Before the ITS I had another Alliance but not connected in the same way, it was always a problem.

I have the DOMESTIC HEAT PUMP 4.7KW (ITS 4.7HDP) - so it is not the super.

 

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18 hours ago, Ikster said:

Hi guys. If I may add to this topic. I have a Kwikot geyser and I installed a 1.5kW twin PTC element as a replacement for the old resistive type element and the results is great.

Less power consumed and the water still gets to temperature at about the same time a conventional element takes to heat up the water.

The other part of the PTC element is a DC element rated at 950watts so it can run off a 48V battery.

Its a good way to save on energy. Geyserwise is the place I got mine from.

Eish! this sounds like like the cheapest and easiest. Definitely will try this before jumping to the heat pump 😀

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HI Hoohloc, there is an even simpler and cheaper way to hot water. Just feed your standard geyser element straight 200V DC from 5 or so PV panels in series. (Put 6uF capacitor over thermostat to stop arcing.) Once the geyser is hot, thermostat switches off, voltage rises and charges batteries through charge controller. (First a Diode to isolate) I changed geyser element to 2kW to match string output, but you have enough panels to use 3 or even 4kW element.

 

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I tried the solar option from Kwikot. I tried it for 2 years. My bill never dropped at all and my Efergy system confirmed it. I went and bought a 16l gas geyser from Dewhot for the entire house. 4 bathrooms. Worked like a charm. At the same time I installed an 8l Dewhot geyser in the scullery area. Obviously both geysers are outside. They hardly drink a lot of gas and the water is hot almost instantly unlike before with an electric geyser. Plus it doesn't have to charge all day or if you have timers for a couple hours a day! Best investment I made. I think in total I spent just under R15k with installation.

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On 2021/06/01 at 8:53 PM, Petrie said:

I'm on solar now for 6 months, but geyser (200lt, 3kw) is still on Eskom. I want to go completely off grid. Which is the best geyser alternative? Solar, high pressure/low pressure, retrofit or gas? Considering purchase price etc.

 

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Hi thank you Petrie for asking on our Platform, what ever you do don't obtain extra batteries to use for heating purposes. But does your Inverter have an "energy dump" or "Auxiliary load" switch function? This will be a great benefit if you do have it. Otherwise one needs to look at dual element or if you have no choice and have battery power use a Heat Pump that runs on 220V. Does this help? 

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3 hours ago, WilliamH said:

Hi thank you Petrie for asking on our Platform, what ever you do don't obtain extra batteries to use for heating purposes. But does your Inverter have an "energy dump" or "Auxiliary load" switch function? This will be a great benefit if you do have it. Otherwise one needs to look at dual element or if you have no choice and have battery power use a Heat Pump that runs on 220V. Does this help? 

Hi William, I definately won't add batteries to my setup just for geyser. I don't know if my inverter has a Aux load. It is an Axpert inverter. How/where can I check if it does have a Aux load? I am thinking of a PTC element, because it load isn't constant like a normal element. Its load drops a bit as the water temperature increase. And I think I will add a geyserwise timer/controller. I am also thinking of preheating the incomning water with a pvc pipe coil.

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If you have solar PV already - you will find that you tend to have an excess of generation available anyway - just use it to heat your geyser . I currently dont feed into the network and use that geyser as the load dump .Keep doing that till the geyser needs to be replaced.

 

PS - I have added a geyser wise controller that shows the water temp and use that to controll the geyser

Edited by 1ougat
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On 2021/06/01 at 9:56 PM, Leshen said:

Hi there. 
 

Retrofit 20 Evac tubes with a Geyserwise to the 200l geyser and change the element to a 2kw so you can run it off your inverter if needs be. Then get a Paloma 26 or Rinnai gas geyser and connect that in series after the solar geyser. Set the gas geyser to 45 degrees so that it will only heat the water to that temp. If the geyserwise shows that the water in the tank is above 45 then turn off the gas geyser. If below 45 then turn the gas geyser on to boost the temp to 45. You can also try 48 in winter. 
 

I ran that system in my previous home and used only 18kwh per month from the Grid and a 48kg gas tank lasted 13 months with 3 adults in the home. 

Hi the new gas geyser allows you to connect your electric geyser outlet straight into it....if it senses that the geyser water is hot, gas does not operate, if it senses water is below the gas geysers set 45 degrees, the gas geyser automatically switches on...I agree best investment I made before solar was a gas geyser...good suggestion. Today I am lucky if my account is 35 rand...lol

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