New Voltronic VM-IV and MKS-IV

[JaseZA]

I see Voltronic has released some new inverter versions! Looks fancy  But they do have increased power outputs (3.6kw and 5.6kw) and some new features (Built in WiFi). I wonder when they'll be released locally?

https://voltronicpower.com/en-US/Product/Detail/Axpert-VM-IV

https://voltronicpower.com/en-US/Product/Detail/Axpert-MKS-IV

[Coulomb]

Wow, thanks. Though I groan about all the likely future firmware hassles for me.

The LC Display has a LOT more information on it at once. They seem to have effectively a "removable display" at the bottom, but now it's no longer removable 

And of course, those LEDs... I haven't formed an opinion on them as yet.

There are still only 4 digits of firmware version displayed. I would have liked to see more. And still those ugly "r" characters! 

Some information about connecting to BMS at last. I see that the BMS connector has RS-485, CAN, and RS-232 now. LiC seems to be some sort of vendor independent BMS protocol. Perhaps it's a simple one that Voltronic have designed, for new battery manufacturers that don't already have an established protocol that they have to support. So they may as well use Voltronics' protocol, so that they have a popular inverter that is compatible already.

[Gnome]

They still haven't improved the no-load efficiency so I fully expect the internals will be unchanged.  Won't upgrade until they finally improve their design to be more efficient at low loads.

[JaseZA]

On 2021/06/04 at 2:43 PM, Coulomb said:

Though I groan about all the likely future firmware hassles for me.

Haha! But agreed, always concerns about firmware on new voltronic releases!

 

On 2021/06/04 at 2:43 PM, Coulomb said:

LiC seems to be some sort of vendor independent BMS protocol.

That's very interesting - it still boggles my mind that there hasn't been development yet of a universal BMS protocol.

On 2021/06/05 at 3:15 PM, Gnome said:

Won't upgrade until they finally improve their design

Yeah, I don't think there is anything here that justifies upgrading... I'm in the process of changing from my 3kw to a 5kw though, so if buying new it becomes a fun decision between VMiii or MKSiii or waiting for VMiv or MKSiv!

[BMBadenhorst]

Hi

Have anyone bought and used the fourth generation voltronic/axpert inverters. What is the difference between the Infinisolar and Axpert in this generation, as it appears that both have battery backup and costs the same.

Interested to find out if there are any major operating differences compared to previous generations.

[Krokkedil]

RGB, it will give you 600w more 

RGB is probably the worst thing to gave on an inverter because who wants a inverter that is looking like a disco in the middle of the night. 

 

I believe that an inverter should be silent and dark and do the job.

 

[Coulomb]

1 hour ago, 87 Dream said:

Also added some battery CAN Comms. 

Existing firmware already has support for CAN comms to battery BMSs, in the WEC (Weco) and SOL (Soltaro) battery types, as far as I know. I've not heard of anyone using them though.

Are there more battery types now that use CAN comms?

The RGB thing just seems silly to me. Marketing gone mad.

[FransFrance]

Hello and thanks for so many interesting and important informations I find on your site

I  just started building my installation. This Voltronic inverter will be my choise, togheter with 18 old 175W PV's, and soon I hope 16 cells from AMY WAN. then a DACIA SPRING the new all electric car, only 12.500€ now here in France. Good enough for us, and bye bye mister diesel.

5.6kW for us is perfect, 5kW was a bit just for us all the way. Voltronic, yes for first start, money is important for us, but it will give me enough experience to go better perhaps later, I hope it will last a few years, nobody talks about general lifespan. (Sofar is I think my dream for what I learnt, low self use, no fans, 10 years garanty, anyway, to expensive for now)

My question that I cant't find is: What is the difference between the MKS and the VM serries, there must be more exept the 500VOC of the mppt

I hope you can help with a answer or a explaining link.

Very much thanks, I just hope you have a nice evening

FransFrance

[Gnome]

4 hours ago, FransFrance said:

5.6kW for us is perfect, 5kW was a bit just for us all the way. Voltronic, yes for first start, money is important for us

Recommend you go for SunSynk.  Their product is much higher quality for not much more expensive.

[FransFrance]

4 hours ago, Gnome said:

4 hours ago, Gnome said:

Recommend you go for SunSynk.  Their product is much higher quality for not much more expensive.

Hello ans thank you Gnome. I found the SUN-5K-SG01LP1-EU V, 5kw on alieexpress, no one doing this make in Europe. Aiiii Aiiii as Belmondo said seeing Briggite Bardot for the time. To expensive for me for the moment. 3 times the price of the budget Voltronic.

But I understand, can't compare sheep and windows.....

 

[FransFrance]

4 hours ago, 87 Dream said:

Bonjour, Frans

Great to have international traffic on here. 

The difference between the 2 inverters is the following. The VM series was made by Voltronics to cater as a budget offering. It cannot be paralleled & joined to another inverter to increase power output in stacks. 

The MKS can be Paralleled. @Coulombwill know more about these on a hardware level & inner workings. 

They seem to share the same Solar Charge Controller, however, I cannot comment on anything else that is common.

Au Revoir

87

Hourah. So thats the difference........

Thank you so much, so for me I will go to the VM then. 5.6 kW is enough for mee, hoping that they realy mean Watts and not VA's.

Yes I have been looking at a lot Coulomb wrote, he is very intelligent and very willing to spent time on this forum helping peoples out, I was a bit shy to ask him my question as a newbe, so when I saw this shootoff I jumpt in. (As Belmondo did later in the same film).

Thanks again, I just had my first quote from AMY, still finding out about VAT from aliebébé (Belmondo was caled bébé here in France, but I'm floating to far away now) I get her 16 cells for 2000€ incl everything doane, transport etc, but VAT she couldn't tell.

Thank you all again.

And please Gnome, dont feel bad about my answer, I should have worked harder in my life, I would be richer now, (but perhaps without my wife), so Voltronic it is for the moment, with lots of reading:    https://powerforum.co.za/profile/1321-coulomb/.

Frans from France

[moadavid]

Hello

for frans the deye ce sells in france see site https://sunxcell.com/ 1300euro. the sunsynk this sells in the UK at the same price at ITS Technologies: Renewable Energy Specialist - Solar PV... https://www.itstechnologies.shop at the same price. if we find in Spain rebadged turbo energy. Kind regards

Bonjour

pour frans
le deye ce vend en france voir site https://sunxcell.com/ 1300euro.
le sunsynk ce vend en UK au méme prix chez
ITS Technologies: Renewable Energy Specialist - Solar PV ...
https://www.itstechnologies.shop au méme prix.
ausi on en trouve en espagne rebadgé turbo énergy.

cordialement

 

 

 

 

[FransFrance]

Thank you MoaDavid.

Didnt get very far with the Deye, lots of OOPS 404 screens, BRRRRRR.

Then had to give: date of birth, phonenumber, e-mail, just for a quote, BRRRRR again.

I realy do get it, Voltronic is the worse. And for twice the money I get 3 times more of everything. But is my thinking of paying more NOW for bigger (stronger, faster, oh dear there I go again, USAF Colonel Steve Austin!) batteries?

I can change a rotten Voltronic in a few years, but can I as easy dubbel my batteries capacity? The transport alone of those babies payes for a new RV (rotten voltronic).

Not everybody seems to be "d'accord" with 16S2P.

My wife doesnt think Im funny, by the way, but then its 39 years.............

[FransFrance]

And at least I want go for a REAL Voltronic, not a clone.

[BritishRacingGreen]

On 2021/11/08 at 7:15 PM, FransFrance said:

Aiiii Aiiii as Belmondo said seeing Briggite Bardot

@FransFrance  Wasnt she a beauty , and Rachel , and Sophia .

Back to solar , VMIV also a beauty , I got the MKSIII , similar to VMIII, very satisfied with both performance and stability.

 

Cheers

[isetech]

On 2021/11/08 at 2:38 PM, Gnome said:

Recommend you go for SunSynk.  Their product is much higher quality for not much more expensive.

would you say the same if the unit was just used as a backup ... the reason I ask I have a current situation were we use the inverter for the pure sine wave ... however as we live and learn found that the old RCT  switches from bypass to pure sine wave and it seems the mecer king can be setup to stay online producing a cleaner sine wave ... I havent had a chance to connect the PQA yet to test. 

I have a new request today to install an inverter for an office full of computers ... printers etc ... purely as a backup ...  My thoughts were to offer the mecer king 5 kva ... I havent visited the site yet ... its a company so I might look at a solar options to cut the electricity bill ... I will only know once I havent visited the site ... to many enquiries and too little time. 

I agree with you selecting the sunsynk for another project where we want to upgrade the mecer king to a sunsynk ... the reason ... because we want a hybrid to use the solar power  to grid tie the non essential loads and maybe even send some rolling down the hill  (if you know what I mean) 

another consideration is to add no load to the the essential side ... this option will however cause the batteries to cutout before the 2 hour load shedding is up ... especially now that I have increased the cut off to 48 ... we barely make the 2 hours (down to 48.2 VDC during the last 2 hour cut) 

 

 

 

[Gnome]

6 minutes ago, isetech said:

would you say the same if the unit was just used as a backup ... the reason I ask I have a current situation were we use the inverter for the pure sine wave ... however as we live and learn found that the old RCT  switches from bypass to pure sine wave and it seems the mecer king can be setup to stay online producing a cleaner sine wave ... I havent had a chance to connect the PQA yet to test. 

I am using Axpert King as just a UPS.  And I bought it specifically because of the 0ms transfer time which seemed unrealistic to me.  At which point I confirmed pretty early on the forum that indeed the Axpert King is "online" (so an extent).  It converts AC -> 400v DC bus -> AC, when the AC falls away it switches to DC -> Boost converter -> 400v DC bus -> AC.  The common part being the 400v DC bus -> AC.  So it isn't true double conversion because it doesn't fully always use the boost converter running from battery.  Note that when running in ECO mode it runs like a previous Axpert.  And my King came configured to run in ECO as much as possible.  I had to set it to force it to not run in ECO mode.

Now with all the technical stuff out of the way, let's get to your questions

Advantages:

• No change over, so yes there is no drop in AC
• Can be cleaner (see below for special cases)

Disadvantages:

• Higher power cost.  Your efficiency drops because you are always running through the inverter, they claim 94% efficiency (IIRC)
• Any load that makes use of a TRIAC will wreck absolute havoc with Axpert inverters (and probably others too), the voltage will jump up and down (more below)
• Any high energy loads you switch on will cause a voltage drop.  This is because the grid has nearly no impedance whereas the inverter has significant impedance so it takes time to respond to changes in load.  You'll notice this as slight dimming of the lights for example

Why TRIACs wreck havoc on Inverters:  a TRIAC is cutting up the AC signal and only passes through some amount of it, like a transistor does with DC.  The problem is it is never turned into DC so there is no capacitor or inductor that is storing energy (which would make it look like a more constant load to the inverter).  This means it is like switching a high power AC device on an off really fast.  And like I said before you get dimming when that happens.  So with the TRIAC based device you have this high speed flicker as the inverter is trying to match the load but is slower than the TRIAC.  TRIACs also have sh#t for load factor.

If I did it all over again, I would go back to the normal Axpert, not the "double conversion".  Purely because I run lights, TV, computers, fridge, from the inverter and I hate that dimming that happens when I switch on the TV or the fridge clicks on.  It happens every time, so not pleasant.

6 minutes ago, isetech said:

I have a new request today to install an inverter for an office full of computers ... printers etc ... purely as a backup ... 

Laser printers often make use of TRIACs (or used to).  Not sure how well it will play with backup from any inverter.

[isetech]

The unit will be connected the red dedicated socket outlets only ... no lights connected ... so used purely as a "UPS" 

The old RCT 5 kva we have running "blue" plugs only ... with large screens in the factory ... computers ... servers ... alarm CCTV .. the usual stuff ... we have lost a few screens ... and computers have also been damaged for whatever reason ... we have a bad unstable power supply ... hence thinking about upgrading to a axpert king. 

[isetech]

I sure I heard in one of the many videos I have been watching ... the sunsynk has a switching time of less than 10 mS ... not sure that it is worth all that extra expense if no solar is going to be used ... maybe I should be looking for an inverter which doesnt have MPPT's built in. 

[Gnome]

Well the voltage range of the Axpert is greater and they started as a UPS manufacturer, so if you need it as a UPS, then I think Axpert is just fine.  When I bought mine I just stripped out the MPPT circuitry

I read about your problem with a factory and unstable power, in which case the King makes sense.

Still I very, very highly recommend you buy a Surge Protector to also protect the Inverter supply.  The King does have internal surge protection MOVs but they are clamping devices that have a limited life.  So if you can wear out an external surge protector first to take most of the brunt then it'll be the wiser decision IMO.

 

Surge protector board in the Axpert King:

Edited November 9, 2021 by Gnome

[GTiDon]

Hello

I have purchased the Growcol vm iv 3600 24v inverter. 

The left fan spins up when the unit is idle and stops when charging or discharging. The right side fan spins up as it should. This makes the inverter unusable in my house. The fan spins up to high speed all the time. 

I've taken the unit back to the supplier the day after purchasing and testing. GC Solar. But their technical staff are completely incompetent and they also refused to take a return. 

Now I have to make do with the inverter. Is this firmware related? 

What are the risks if I connect the left fan in parallel to the right fan which spins up as/when expected

Any suggestions? 

Thankyou, 

[anthonyevs]

On 2021/10/28 at 2:00 PM, Coulomb said:

Existing firmware already has support for CAN comms to battery BMSs, in the WEC (Weco) and SOL (Soltaro) battery types, as far as I know. I've not heard of anyone using them though.

Are there more battery types now that use CAN comms?

The RGB thing just seems silly to me. Marketing gone mad.

Hi Coulomb

I have just managed to buy a Soltaro AC coupled inverter, was hoping to get it working with my own build lithium usung reclaimd nissan leaf battery to 48v (14s 3p), i am using a self build DIYBMS that has canbus function.

The i realise that there is no lead acid setting, and it only works with soltaro batteries.

I need to try to get the canbus data, or very basic canbus data to get the inverter to work with the battery, even very basic stuff like low/high voltage setting switch off.

Any ideas?

Thanks

[Coulomb]

4 hours ago, anthonyevs said:

I need to try to get the canbus data, or very basic canbus data to get the inverter to work with the battery, even very basic stuff like low/high voltage setting switch off.

Any ideas?

Sorry. I find the BMS code particularly hard going. You'd think that this sort of thing would be published somewhere. 

[anthonyevs]

hi Coulomb, are you the same coulomb that was in the DIY ev scene a few years back, maybe with plug in prius kits on priuschat or ev forums. 

There is a coulomb over those places, wondering if it is you?

Thanks.

[Coulomb]

35 minutes ago, anthonyevs said:

hi Coulomb, are you the same coulomb that was in the DIY ev scene a few years back,

I'm the same Coulomb as on the Australian Electric Vehicle Association. I helped user Weber convert a petrol Mazda MX-5 to electric, but that's the extent of my DIY EVing.

I used to own a Toyota Prius, and had vague plans of making it plug-in, but then got cold feet and abandoned that idea. I've been watching developments with control of the Prius inverter and motor-generators, but that seems like a dead end these days, with decent production EVs.

I'm also moderately active on an iMiEV forum as Coulomb, particularly with the various problems with its on-board charger.

I am not associated with Coulomb Technologies, the company or the forum user.