BlueNova LiFeYPo4

[plaasjaap]

As with all of you, I am super keen to find new battery tech that works and is feasible... Has anybody here got experience with these guys? 

http://bluenova.co.za/residential-products.html

From the pricelists I get:

BN52V-144-7.4kHC R 72 080 (that's a 52V bank @144ah, 7.4kwh usable) guarantee of something like 10 years at this level of use. This compares to about 450ah LA batteries roughly around R30-40 000. If they do last at least twice longer it could start to look worth it...?

What i also want to know - the settings needed on your MPPT are as below (if i look at it the Axpert SCC should work!?) - what you guys think? if one can use one's existing components that would be awesome.

Parameter	Cell V	Value	12V Eq	Comment
V high cut-off	4.00 V	64.0 V	16.0 V	Over voltage. Battery will isolate automatically.
V bypass	3.50 V	56.0 V	14.0 V	Internal set to battery for balancing.
V high set	3.51 V	56.2 V	14.0 V	100% SoC. Constant voltage set point. Charger must pause until Vfloat is reached.
V float	3.40 V	54.4 V	13.6 V	Charger must reconnect when this voltage is reached.
V reconnect	3.00 V	48.0 V	12.0 V	Mains or generator must reconnect to charge batteries.
V low set	2.90 V	46.4 V	11.6 V	Inverter must switch off the load.
V low cut-off	2.70 V	43.2 V	10.8 V	Under voltage. Battery will isolate automatically.
I charge max		100 A		Set to max value of the battery specification
I discharge max		100 A		Set to max value of the battery specification

 

[plaasjaap]

These guys confirmed they have tested the Axpert and it is acceptable... i think it is great that one won't need to replace all our existing components when it comes to replacing batteries!

The sales guy made the following remarks which are sounding nearly convincing:

Die twee sterkste punte wat ons probeer maak met verkope, is die volgende:

 

-          Al ons batterye kan in 1 uur heeltemaal vol gelaai word (alhoewel ons 2 ure aanbeveel).

 

-          Cycles @ %DoD (depth of discharge):

 

a.       3600 cycles @ 100% DoD

b.      5000 cycles @ 80% DoD

c.       7000 cycles @ 70% DoD

 

As ‘n mens bg. siklusse vergelyk met loodsuur en die koste per kWh uitwerk, is ons batterye aansienlik goedkoper as loodsuur.

[Guest]

Plaasjaap, ek sien niemand comment nie. 10 to 1 agv dis nuwe goed.

Ek sit en wonder al vandat jy dit opgesit het, dat ek wil goed van die grid afhaal in die stad sonder om grid tie te gaan, dat dalk net miskien kan die goed op 12v die ding maak werk vir my.

Sukkel net met die somme, bietjie dom sien, om 100w vir 12 ure met 2 dae se rugsteun koste effektief te kan afhaal van Eskom.

7000 cycles @ 70% is baie interessant. 

[superdiy]

8 hours ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

7000 cycles @ 70% is baie interessant. 

Ek wil net seker maak jy verstaan reg: 7000 cycles @ 70% DOD - dis is 30% SOC, nie 70% SOC nie!

3600 cycles @ 100% DOD - Dit is 0% SOC! Dit is ongeveer 10 jaar @ 0% SOC elke dag!

Dit is baie "impressive"!

[Guest]

Just now, superdiy said:

Ek wil net seker maak jy verstaan reg: 7000 cycles @ 70% DOD - dis is 30% SOC, nie 70% SOC nie!

Jip, ek moes drie keer lees om dit in te neem.

[superdiy]

1 minute ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

Jip, ek moes drie keer lees om dit in te neem.

Dis 20 jaar @ 30% SOC elke dag! Very impressive.

[Guest]

Al wat my bietjie maak wonder met al die nuwe tech, wat fantasties is en dit gaan werk, is dat die nommers wat almal kwoteer is getoets in 'n lab en word gegee tot die vervaardiger en verkoper se voordeel.

Trojan weet mense al vir jarre wat gaan gebeur want forklift operators gaan jou toemaak as jy sukkel met hulle besighede.

So die nuwe tech is 10 to 1 beter maar hoeveel beter is dit nou regtig in alledaagse gebruik?

Dit sal mens nie regtig weet tot jy nie gekoop het en gebruik het nie.

[superdiy]

On 9/23/2016 at 8:40 AM, The Terrible Triplett said:

Al wat my bietjie maak wonder met al die nuwe tech, wat fantasties is en dit gaan werk, is dat die nommers wat almal kwoteer is getoets in 'n lab en word gegee tot die vervaardiger en verkoper se voordeel.

Trojan weet mense al vir jarre wat gaan gebeur want forklift operators gaan jou toemaak as jy sukkel met hulle besighede.

So die nuwe tech is 10 to 1 beter maar hoeveel beter is dit nou regtig in alledaagse gebruik?

Dit sal mens nie regtig weet tot jy nie gekoop het en gebruik het nie.

Very true, so who's gonna be the first? 

Is there anyone on the forum with a LiFePO 4 bank?

[Guest]

I got a price for a BN26V-144-3.7k. Retail price = R 45,675 excl VAT. Discounts can still be negotiated they said, I liked that.

But that amount of cash for 1 batt, in the city, not my cup of tea ... no matter how long they last.

Off-grid ... probably then I would look very deeply into the supplier and the batteries for a warranty tends to last as long as the company that sold you the batteries stays in business, tech is new so warranty is very NB, unless you can go back to the OEM whom is not based in SA.

[___]

1 hour ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

tech is new so

LiFePo4 is old tech, I believe Big Blue's been selling it at least since 2012 if not longer. The real worry to me isn't that it is new tech. It's when a new manufacturer comes up with a cheaper version thereof, making me wonder if I can trust this particular incarnation thereof.

Its like when the Chery QQ hit the marked. Cheeky little car. CHEAP. So cars are old tech, internal combustions engines are centuries old... but do I trust this particular maker? That is the question

[Guest]

Good point.

Which begs the question: If the tech is 2012, then why have they not achieved bigger market share like i.e. on more battery sellers floors in SA, and / or more commonly used by forum members and others?

Is it price? Marketing? 

[___]

20 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

Good point.

Which begs the question: If the tech is 2012, then why have they not achieved bigger market share like i.e. on more battery sellers floors in SA, and / or more commonly used by forum members and others?

Is it price? Marketing? 

Price. And I think Lithium Ion (which is better) also became more affordable, so the kind of person buying in that bracket will probably just go straight for that.

[SilverNodashi]

On 9/26/2016 at 3:13 PM, plonkster said:

Price. And I think Lithium Ion (which is better) also became more affordable, so the kind of person buying in that bracket will probably just go straight for that.

And Lithium Ion is dangerous. And people know it. So a Samsung note battery blew up and set a Jeep on fire. Cellphone manufacturers have been at this for many years and have pretty much perfected the "art" of safely charging and discharge lithium batteries. Imagine if one of these big batteries explode. In your garage!

 

BUT, if their products are stable, the math looks GOOD!:

BN26V-144-3.7k cost R52,069.5 (incl VAT). At 100% DOD you will get 9.8 years our of it. At 20 hours backup time (let's be generous) you can get 240Wh out of it. At 9.8years that's R442 per month. At R1.75 per eskom unit, that would have been 252 units.

Let's take the 48V units, BN52V-72-3.7kHC as example:

It cost R52069.5 and will last the same 9.8 years at 100% DOD. At 20hours backup you'll get 384W @ 48V and also cost R442 per month. 

In my case, I would break even on this battery bank, as I'm spending R500/month on prepaid to keep my el-cheapo (48V/445Ah bank @ R12k!) battery bank floating during the night. And the 2Kw geyser runs off eskom as well at this stage - still need to fit a 1Kw element in order to use solar electricity to heat-up the geyser

Next year I would probably save 12% of that investment, if eskom escalates their price by 12%. This year they escalated only 9%. So, my payback on this would be 10 years, if I purely work on my existing eskom bill as example. Our base load at night runs between 120W and 350W. sometimes 450W. And every 3rd Friday we use the eskom-connected stove to bake pizzas. 

This also makes me believe that I probably wouldn't drain the batteries down to 0% every night and could possibly get another year or two out of them. But the Kenwood mixer for the pizza dough and oven means that a 160Ah battery bank would be too small for our occasional high usage. I would probably have to use the BN52V-230-12.0 kHC batteries which cost R130,758, just to accommodate once-a-month pizza baking. 

[SilverNodashi]

16 minutes ago, SilverNodashi said:

And Lithium Ion is dangerous. And people know it. So a Samsung note battery blew up and set a Jeep on fire. Cellphone manufacturers have been at this for many years and have pretty much perfected the "art" of safely charging and discharge lithium batteries. Imagine if one of these big batteries explode. In your garage!

 

BUT, if their products are stable, the math looks GOOD!:

BN26V-144-3.7k cost R52,069.5 (incl VAT). At 100% DOD you will get 9.8 years our of it. At 20 hours backup time (let's be generous) you can get 240Wh out of it. At 9.8years that's R442 per month. At R1.75 per eskom unit, that would have been 252 units.

Let's take the 48V units, BN52V-72-3.7kHC as example:

It cost R52069.5 and will last the same 9.8 years at 100% DOD. At 20hours backup you'll get 384W @ 48V and also cost R442 per month. 

In my case, I would break even on this battery bank, as I'm spending R500/month on prepaid to keep my el-cheapo (48V/445Ah bank @ R12k!) battery bank floating during the night. And the 2Kw geyser runs off eskom as well at this stage - still need to fit a 1Kw element in order to use solar electricity to heat-up the geyser

Next year I would probably save 12% of that investment, if eskom escalates their price by 12%. This year they escalated only 9%. So, my payback on this would be 10 years, if I purely work on my existing eskom bill as example. Our base load at night runs between 120W and 350W. sometimes 450W. And every 3rd Friday we use the eskom-connected stove to bake pizzas. 

This also makes me believe that I probably wouldn't drain the batteries down to 0% every night and could possibly get another year or two out of them. But the Kenwood mixer for the pizza dough and oven means that a 160Ah battery bank would be too small for our occasional high usage. I would probably have to use the BN52V-230-12.0 kHC batteries which cost R130,758, just to accommodate once-a-month pizza baking. 

EDIT:

I see the BN26V-144-3.7k only has 3700W usable power. That's 185W over 20 hours. So I would then actually need the BN52V-144-7.4kHC @ R85,172.82. So that's R780/pm for this battery bank. No losses, power factor or loan interest has been calculated at all. This is just raw numbers. 

[Mike]

and that's why a certain company insists on a minimum of R10million of insurance cover on any install we do / could do. them things are dangerous

[SilverNodashi]

1 hour ago, Mike said:

and that's why a certain company insists on a minimum of R10million of insurance cover on any install we do / could do. them things are dangerous

haha. our insurance is just as bloody expensive! Luckily never had to use it though.