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PV panel Grading?


Jaco De Jongh

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Hi, when I visited GC solar (A Chinese owned company) yesterday I had a discussion with the sales lady and after hearing that the owners travels to China frequently to source solar equipment, I asked her if they would ever consider selling Renesolar panels. The answer was a definite no, according to the owner, Renesolar is a B-class panel whereas JA solar is a A class panel.

I searched the internet a bit for more info on panel grade classifications, but its a wide concept with no real rules. Here is some basic info.  http://sinovoltaics.com/quality-control/grading-of-solar-cells-a-b-c-d/

I looked at JA solar and Renesolar spec sheets and cant find any mention of A grade or grade of materiel used on the JA sheet, but Renesolar claims to be using a A++ Wafer in their construction.

Did anybody here look into panel grades before, or is it just something used to increase the sales on a certain product. ive got a feeling that the quality of various well know and reputable PV manufacturers, can not differ that much. 

Anybody with some good info on this topic?

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Jaco, you are right. All panels are not equal. 

On top of this most of the panel manufacturers have not been in the market for more than 20+ years. So when they give warranties who knows if they will be around in 20 years from when we bought. Having said that, Yingli panels have a very interesting warranty, in case they are not around when a claim comes in, allegedly they have a insurance policy to cover the warranty. Have not dug too deep into that yet.

And take Tenesol as an example. Built a factory in Cape Town. Then they left and sold it to Sunpower in Cape Town.

Now Sunpower panels are very expensive compared to the rest. Why? Turns out they craft superior panels compared to the rest. Not only on how long they will last, but also superior conversion of sun to DC.

But you are looking at above R10 ex VAT per watt.

So I figured when I bought, like with batts, lets see how they last and then when I replace, then I will go look at brand names like i.e. Sunpower and other German manufacturers.

 

EDIT: Just look at what I just found! 440w panels, 
https://us.sunpower.com/sites/sunpower/files/media-library/spec-sheets/sp-e-series-commercial-solar-panels-supplementary-technical-spec.pdf

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30 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

But you are looking at above R10 ex VAT per watt.

Yup, I have 6 of those panels. They are like R12 per watt with vat included.

Re Renesola, from what I can see they are a very reputable company, and if I am not mistaken the Solaire panels we make locally are also rebranded as Renesola at times.

Then on the other hand, I see Renesola rebrands and sells the Voltronic charge controllers, the ones that gave dockarl so much trouble. They also rebrand the Infini, which is not a bad inverter but.... you know... not in the same class as the SMA, Fronius or Big Blue... so could it be that Renesola is merely "good enough" while JA-Power or even Yingli might qualify as "Excellent"? :-)

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Renesola is a Tier 1 manufacturer just like JA Solar, Trina, Canadian, Jinko and a couple of others. Quality is of no concern as Renesola will never sell B-grade modules in the market, that will tarnish their reputation. Their solar modules have all the IEC certification just like any other manufacturer.

They do sell other solar equipment that is rebranded in some instances, but their modules come out of their own factory. They produce 4MW of solar modules a day!

Solaire use to make Renesola modules, but that agreement stopped a year ago, it is just to expensive to make modules locally.

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Adding onto Geralds concern for I am as confussed on this subject as can be, after being told for years it cannot be done.

@TinkerBoy keeping in mind I blow things up ... if you where me, would you connect 3 x 310w panels and 2 x 200w panels onto the same MPPT controller?

 

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@TinkerBoy, i am missing something, If gerald's strings are 400volt, and you add a 300watt in series with the 255watt, you will degrade the 300watt to a 255watt. Or at least, that is the way I understood it. If the 255watt is rated at 8 amps for example, and the 300watt rated at 8.5 amps, the 300 watt will never reach the rated 8.5 amps because the 255watt will limit it. I think the only time it will work is is the amp ratings are close to each other. Please correct me if i am wrong.

Using a 255 in paralel with a 300watt will work as long as the VOC is  similar or very close to each other. Then the amps will add up. 

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Back to the OP, no matter where you go and who you speak to, their chosen panel or two will always be superior. Go ask any solar supplier and installer. "Brand X is not as good as our stuff. Let me show you why...". 

On the grading side, the general consensus are that an A grade panel is free of any deficiencies, while a B-grade panel might have some solder "blotches" on some of the cells. 

You need to look at the panels total output + rated / claimed efficiency, and price and then decide what works for you.  

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35 minutes ago, Jaco de Jongh said:

Nice one TTT, info all should have!!! My Renesolar Panels might not be replaced 2 years from now,, :huh: 

haha, no, but 20 years from now I'm sure the tech would be awesome! Imagine if they could solve the problem of panels only producing about 17-22% energy in the next couple years and we could actually get 40%!

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FWIW. Yingli allegedly has / or had a 20 year insurance on the panels. If they are not around, panels have a issue, it will be insured.

 

Jip, I had my wake up call after I did my research and chose Tenesol. I mean, international company AND they invested in a factory right here in Cpt! Only to read few years that they are closing, having sold local assets to SunPower ... that was a huge wake up call for me. No more warranties and no support when I blew the diodes.

Talking of warranties ito 20 years and all that, means nothing, yet. 

My view is:
Panels = are a risk ito warranties. No matter what the supplier claims, who knows if they will be there in 5-10-20 years. How would you make a claim that the panel is degrading faster than the warranty claims? What was the output measured day one to compare against? Where they then on par as advertised?
Hardware = all you can bet on is if the supplier is around long enough to honour the warranty period.
Batteries = "k_k en betaal is die wet van Tvl" - you are going to replace them, some sooner, some later ... full stop. And no warranties really.

Bottom line for me, I hope for the best, plan for the worst and use all you can till then.

 

And IF Silvers new upgraded panels comes about, I have waited nearly 8 years, then I will upgrade ... same power less panels ... but I am not going to hold my breath ... yet. :P

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@plonkster I have the 2 x 200w and 3 x 310w ones.

IF I where to sell, panel here, a bit here and another part there, ideally all in same time frame, all must go.

Why? I am bored with it, working with no challenges. Time for a new system!!!

But, it never works like that now does it? 

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Just now, The Terrible Triplett said:

I have the 2 x 200w and 3 x 310w ones.

Aaah ok, I thought it was the 150W ones. I have 6 of those, if I could get two more it would bring me up to 1.2kwp.

Some good news from the last week however: The blue CAN-bus controllers can now be controlled by the CCGX. In the past you needed that expensive cable to do it. Earlier this year they added functionality so you could control the cheaper ve-direct controllers using the CCGX. Now, finally, it doesn't matter anymore if I mix and match and put some panels on the can-controller and others on a cheaper ve-direct controller... it all comes together.

It's so hard to explain how cool it is on planet blue where Christmas comes along every few weeks... then again, I suppose I did prepay for all the gifts :-)

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14 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

FWIW. Yingli allegedly has / or had a 20 year insurance on the panels. If they are not around, panels have a issue, it will be insured.

 

Jip, I had my wake up call after I did my research and chose Tenesol. I mean, international company AND they invested in a factory right here in Cpt! Only to read few years that they are closing, having sold local assets to SunPower ... that was a huge wake up call for me. No more warranties and no support when I blew the diodes.

Talking of warranties ito 20 years and all that, means nothing, yet. 

My view is:
Panels = are a risk ito warranties. No matter what the supplier claims, who knows if they will be there in 5-10-20 years. How would you make a claim that the panel is degrading faster than the warranty claims? What was the output measured day one to compare against? Where they then on par as advertised?
Hardware = all you can bet on is if the supplier is around long enough to honour the warranty period.
Batteries = "k_k en betaal is die wet van Tvl" - you are going to replace them, some sooner, some later ... full stop. And no warranties really.

Bottom line for me, I hope for the best, plan for the worst and use all you can till then.

 

And IF Silvers new upgraded panels comes about, I have waited nearly 8 years, then I will upgrade ... same power less panels ... but I am not going to hold my breath ... yet. :P

Well, if your panels are insured then you could at least claim from your insurance if need be. Dioded cost a dime a dozen and can be replaced easily.

And, the bigger the array, the "smaller the damage" ;)

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4 minutes ago, TinkerBoy said:

I worked out my panels will be paid for after 2 years, The inverter and batteries another 2 years.

We are 1 year down so after another year the panels have been paid for. So any time more than that is a bonus.

I had some cash at hand so everything was paid immediately. That, and the fact that my wife's office is at the house and the money she saved by not having to drive to Spur, in order to work during load shedding, means my kit is / was already paid-off two years ago. 

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4 minutes ago, TinkerBoy said:

They are paid for. I am talking about the return of investment. After 2 years they paid for them selfs in the savings.

 

After 4.5 years my power is for free.

 

Sure, I know what you're saying. I meant, my investment paid for itself immediately. 

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17 minutes ago, TinkerBoy said:

How can it pay for it self immediately ? A return only happens over time in the form of savings or you mitigate risk etc.

Is a solar energy system really only there to save electricity cost over a x-year period?

Every time we had to drive to Spur to use their electricity, and in turn pay for unwanted foodstuff, or everytime I had to start the genie, I spent money on something with almost 0 return. Installing solar panels + inverter + battery bank meant my wife didn't loose money due to eskom failures. And I had to stop replacing electronics which got fried due to surges. A mate of mine lost a couple grand's worth of stuff in his house a few weeks ago when their substation had issues and pushed 440V over the lines!

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Same for me. I had an old insurance product with a money-out component. I cancelled and got some money out. Spent that on an inverter and some panels because I was worried about load-shedding. The equipment paid for itself in a matter of months, not in electricity savings but in work hours that would have been lost if I had no power.

Strictly speaking a small generator would have given better bang for buck... but it was a good excuse to finally do something I wanted to do for a really long time :-)

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22 minutes ago, plonkster said:

Same for me. I had an old insurance product with a money-out component. I cancelled and got some money out. Spent that on an inverter and some panels because I was worried about load-shedding. The equipment paid for itself in a matter of months, not in electricity savings but in work hours that would have been lost if I had no power.

Strictly speaking a small generator would have given better bang for buck... but it was a good excuse to finally do something I wanted to do for a really long time :-)

in 2008 we spent, on average, R1500/pm on petrol for the 6900VA generator. Back then the malls close to us didn't have backup power. 2011 they did.Now, our mall has a small PV farm on their foor, I'm guessing about 2500 panels, judging by how many times they dropped of truck-loads of 30x300 panels.

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1 hour ago, TinkerBoy said:

They pay for them selfs every 2 years in money saved

Indeed, its not the panels that worry me. Its the other stuff. I already had a MPPT fail on me in the first two years, just to drive that point home.

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