Infinisolar 3kW+ parallel diy?

[JoanTheSpark]

Hi folks.

I was wondering if anyone has an idea where the parallel board of the 5kW/10kW unit attaches to the MCU/FPGA that drives those units and if it would be possible to do the same on the smaller 3kW unit?

I'm from OZ, Far North Queensland.

Regards, JTS

[Coulomb]

I don't know the Infinis much, but I'd be surprised if DIY paralleling was possible.

Keep on mind that imperfect synchronisation when paralleling likely means kablooey.

[Jaco De Jongh]

@JoanTheSpark, welcom,  what model specifically are you referring to? and what does DIY paralleling mean?

[JoanTheSpark]

Specifically I'm referring to the Infinisolar 3kW unit (no plus).

I'm fully aware that the manual and any brochures say it's not possible, but I read you guys talking about firmware and exploring stuff, I thought I might just ask in case someone got something done in that area. As the bigger brothers of the same concept do have that feature and 'all there seems to be needed' is a 14 pin connector to the controller board + a 2 pin connector for I suppose power of that parallel board.

It's also that during my recherche's on the net I stumbled upon a lot of rebadged units of that Voltronic - Infinisolar 3kW unit and one of the preliminary manuals looked like this:

That gives food for thought, right?

So yeah, that particular distributor/reseller definitely didn't go through the trouble making this graphic up, it will certainly be created by Voltronic at some point. That's why I thought parts of the hardware might still be available in a normal 3kW unit, just not ready-to go as with the Axperts or the 5kW/10kW Infini units, where you just get a parallel board and plug it into place and you're ready to roll.

[___]

So a bit like some cars (my Corolla for example) already have cruise control in the ECU and just require a bit of extra wiring/hardware to actually make it work? And then the dealer sells that option at 20 times the actual cost? :-)

I have a gut feeling -- not being enough of an electronic engineer to work with anything else -- that inverters with paralleling capability likely have a bit of buffering or decoupling or whatever one would call it built in to smooth out slight mismatches in the paralleled waveforms and to ensure power sharing, so one side doesn't work harder than the other. They cannot be exactly in sync, no two power transistors are ever exactly matched. Skipping that on the lesser inverter model would be one of the first things a manufacturer would do to save costs. As I said though, just a gut feeling.

[Coulomb]

You certainly need lots of support from the firmware to do paralleling. I haven't looked at the Infini firmware much, and what I have doesn't seem to match what people are running, so it's impossible for me to be definitive. But there does seem to be different firmware with the 3 verses the 3+.

[JoanTheSpark]

Well - was worth a shot ;-)
I'll get my hands on the 5kW model then.
Thanks for the responses. Will keep you posted how I go.

[Mike]

except for my dud!

[Mike]

no, it that they copy other products that have inherent faults and then when they replace the fans, they stay with the same shite quality fan......and that does my head in

the moisture issue, well that results in corrosion on the components and one fine day....booom finished and zero warranty with the IP20 and 40 units. SO if close to the coast, do try to go fan-less and an IP rating of 65 up

[cvzyl]

Mike, what inverter are you using now? And what is your experience with it?

Cobus

[Mike]

Cobus Hi,

I had two Goodwe 5048ES units in stock so have used them, had an initial issue but once i updated the firmware all good. running off grid and no longer doing net metering, put a prepaid unit in.

 

[___]

4 hours ago, Mike said:

they copy other products that have inherent faults

Curious. What inverter is copied here? :-)

[Mike]

imeons vs infini

[JoanTheSpark]

So Imeon inverters (is that brand or model name) are the blue prints for the Voltronic Infinisolars?

Are the Imeons IP65+ and stackable by any chance?

[Mike]

Yes, the French gave the build program for the Imeon to Voltronic  who in turn as i understand did a copy and  the infini was born albeit it with a slightly less than great power blending function. Nope they are both IP20 - dangerous within 5km's of the coast.

Also Nope to stackable - in fact i would go so far as to say, do not even consider an Imeon EVER as the after sales support is the absolute worst in the world!!!! believe me i have been through it.

[JoanTheSpark]

Oh, French design.. well that explains the internals of the Infinisolar 3kW I got here - especially the bolt-on-attitude in there.

You wouldn't know - by any chance - where the Growatt x000MTL series originated from? On the inside they look pretty well designed, the complete opposite of the Infini. Funnily enough, the Growatt company now also sells rebadged Infinis and Axperts under their label it seems. Currently waiting on them for a PI of the 5000HYP model.

To bad there isn't a hybrid Growatt based on the MTL series with stacking option - I'd be totally over that.

[cvzyl]

Thanks Mike. So if not Imeon and not Infini, what true hybrids can one consider? What are the options?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, TinkerBoy said:

My Infini works great so far. Been running from April.

I have to smile, very broadly and with my tongue firmly in my cheek, point out that:

Tinkerboy you had a EV tube system and today you steer well clear of them for good reason - my EV tubes works great since 2010. 
Mike had a Infini (and installed a few more) and today he steers well clear of them for good reason - your Infini works great since April 2016.

 

Disclaimer: The above comment is not meant any other way than a smiling light harted tongue in the cheek observation and by no means does it or intends to distract from the fact that real life experiences are shared here.

The rest of us are now better informed to know that the sales brochures of EV tubes and Infini's are not to be fully trusted and we need to be well aware of the above.

And also to note, in both the above cases the suppliers have failed horrendously in after sales service ... maybe cutting corners where they should not have, resulting in these unfortunate experiences.

[___]

In the new car satisfaction survey, they only survey people who's owned the car for at least 6 months. There is this psychological condition where you believe in a product a little harder when you spent a lot of money on it, a kind of confirmation bias, so you pretty much cannot trust people to give a completely honest review until some time has passed. I think TTT might be alluding to that same concept: That taking your own track record into account,(what you installed 5 years ago vs what you think of it now, should give you an indication as to how wrong your present satisfaction might turn out to be :-)

Of course we simply don't know.... yet... :-)

Edit: Of course the irony of this in my own bias is not lost on me. I do have the advantage of being able to say I've owned this brand for over 3 years now... but the bias is still there... just a little :-)

[___]

2 hours ago, cvzyl said:

true hybrids

Other than the Imeon and the Infini? Fronius makes the Symo hybrid, but they are hard to come by in this country. SMA has the Sunnyboy Smart Energy combo unit.

The European recipe seems to be to make separate units that integrate well. Eg with SMA you'd combine a sunnyboy and a sunny-island. Victron seems to have shifted focus away from GTIs so there you'd combine a Multiplus with a Fronius PV inverter, or you'd go with a hub-system where the PV comes in on the DC side via an MPPT charge controller. And so on and so forth.

Where an inverter supports GFPR (so the one unit can control power production of the other in an island situation) cross-brand combinations are also possible.

[Guest]

Spot on Plonk, spot on. 

[Mike]

4 hours ago, cvzyl said:

Thanks Mike. So if not Imeon and not Infini, what true hybrids can one consider? What are the options?

all in one units avail to S.A are the Replus which is a rebranded Goodwe 5048es. So Goodwe /Replus and then design your own....ie Victron multi or quattro with a GTI on the output of the victron ( or blue thingy ) that will be my next route to play with...

[___]

5 hours ago, cvzyl said:

Thanks Mike. So if not Imeon and not Infini, what true hybrids can one consider? What are the options?

Now that I think about it... a French inverter cheapened by the Chinese... man that is the stuff of nightmares. I'm surprised it is as good as it appears to be!

Then again, the Hager breakers I like so much are French too. Maybe I shouldn't judge their stuff based on their cars... Ugh, horendous stuff, some of it.

[JoanTheSpark]

5 hours ago, plonkster said:

Other than the Imeon and the Infini? Fronius makes the Symo hybrid, but they are hard to come by in this country. SMA has the Sunnyboy Smart Energy combo unit.

The European recipe seems to be to make separate units that integrate well. Eg with SMA you'd combine a sunnyboy and a sunny-island. Victron seems to have shifted focus away from GTIs so there you'd combine a Multiplus with a Fronius PV inverter, or you'd go with a hub-system where the PV comes in on the DC side via an MPPT charge controller. And so on and so forth.

Where an inverter supports GFPR (so the one unit can control power production of the other in an island situation) cross-brand combinations are also possible.

Any brand out there that shares the 'internal' DC bus between the units (400VDC) to reduce conversion losses? I really don't like the European approach of using the mains line between the separate components as it just means more conversion losses.

The other end of that spectrum are those blue boxes - afaik, please correct me if I'm wrong - that usually share the energy via the battery bank, that usually means 48VDC or thereabouts.

The Infini's for example have a 400VDC bus internally that is used to move energy from the sources to the sinks (battery <> solar <> mains), the grid - at least on the 3kW unit I got here - is separate and only 'patched' through.
Naturally they do not share that bus with the other units if you stack them, but it would be nice - especially considering that some server centers are using 380/400VDC distribution within their buildings - there could be synergy effects there (no need to reinvent the wheel for parts of the system).
Also a lot of loads around the house these days would work perfectly fine with 400VDC as the first thing they do with the mains is rectify it (even fridges or AC.. they come with VFDs these days to make economic partial load and low-in-rush-currents possible). The parts this puzzle is missing are 400VDC sockets/plugs and safety devices for the DB.

PS: we got hager RCBOs as well here.

[___]

28 minutes ago, TinkerBoy said:

You are trying very hard to explain something that was not my intent. Mike had a 5 kw it failed after 2 months. I have one and it still works after 6 months. That is all. I did not say I think it is the greates thing or that it is the be all or end all etc. All I said is that it still works. So we have a 50 / 50. You are trying to read between lines that only you can see. 

There was no malintent and I didn't have to try hard. I was simply under the impression that Mike had more than one failure, which sort of messed up the entire train of thought from there.

At least we agree that we don't have statistically significant numbers to come to any conclusion :-)