Phocos Hybrid Inverter 8KW - Need Config Help

[ABarelyFunctionalHumn]

Hi There Everyone,

New here so apologies if this is the wrong section to post in - I am just very confused right now and decided to come here in hopes to find some answers or better yet a config solution I can apply to my Inverter to get it to work the way I want it to work.

Current Set Up:

1x Phocos Hybrid Inverter 8KW Pure Sine Wave

3x Arco Invincible III Batteries - 3.2KWh each

10x 355W Canadian Solar Mono Panels.

Now before I write anymore - can I just be very open and honest - my knowledge of the black magic that is electricity is limited - and I mean LIMITED. Like.... I can just about change batteries in a remote limited.

This set up was put in place by a company that does solar installations - and its only a week old - we invested in a solar set up to beat loadshedding and help us start reducing our electricity bill - so there are still some teething issues with the config of the setup - and its this particular issue that is driving me a bit batty.

So when the solution was initially installed it was set up to use batteries in the evening, once the solar panels stopped producing power - the problem is, the panels stop producing power at about 6/7pm and we are on battery power, so by the time it gets to the early hours (12/2am) there is no power as the batteries have been running the whole household for 8+ hours.

So what we wanted was that once the batteries are full, the household runs off of the power being produced by the solar, and once we reach the evenings, we use Eskom to supply, and only if the eskom supply is unavailable do we use the batteries.

Or in short - and in terms or power priority:

    Solar First
    Utility (Eskom)
    Battery

When we told them about the power going out, they changed a setting, and it what we thought was the above - it turns out though, that once the battery was full, it drew all other loads from Eskom?

Best way I can show you is the screenshot below:

 

As you can see - its 10:44 in the morning, the sky is clear, full sunshine hitting the panels, but its not supplying my houses loads. Even if you turn on a big load, it just draws it all from eskom.

Now interestingly - if its actively charging the batteries, then all loads are fed from solar first, and the remaining solar power will go to the batteries:

 

But its only when the batteries are charging.

We called the installer and they sent someone out to change some settings - but the person that came out has said that he has updated the settings, to tell the inverter that once the batteries are at over 80% charge then it will redirect all solar to the loads, and below 80% it will draw from the grid.

But to me that seems like a pointless use of battery cycles?

All I want is - charge the batteries to full on solar, and feed off the grid.

Once battery is full, feed the house with the power generated from the solar panels, and at night, use the utility when available, otherwise use batteries - but the person setting the thing up said thats not quite how it works.

So I am a bit fed up Ill be honesty - it seems like a very very simple request - and honestly - a basic inverter function.

I was flicking around through the Phocos App - and came across AC Output Source Priority Setting, and there seems to be 4:

USB (Utility, Solar, Batteries)
AC input/utility will be provided to the loads as first priority. If there is excess solar beyond what is required for battery charging, this power is used to supply power to the loads instead. The battery is not discharged (Grid Mode). Solar and battery will provide power to the loads when AC input/utility is unavailable (Off-Grid Mode)

SUB (Solar, Utility, Battery)
Solar provides power to the loads as first priority. If solar power is not sufficient to power all connected loads, AC input/utility power will supply the loads simultaneously (Grid Mode). If no solar power is available (e.g. at night), AC Input / utility power is used exclusively. The battery is only discharged when the AC Input / Utility power is unavailable (Off-Grid mode).

SBU (Solar, Battery Utility)
Solar Powers the loads as first priority. If solar power is not sufficient to power all connected loads, the battery will supply power to the loads at the same time. The Any-Grid is disconnected from the grid at this time (Off-Grid mode.) AC input/utility provides power to the loads (grid-Mode) only when the battery voltage drops to either low-level warning voltage or the setting point in settings menu 12. When first applying SBU priority, it may take up to 10 minutes for the any-grid to switch to off grid mode.

(Above descriptions were taken verbatim out of the app)

Now in my mind and literacy level - its SUB that I want... I want solar to feed my draw to my house, and when production is exceeding draw, the difference is fed into the battery to charge it. I might want to change it in Winter that all solar is fed into the battery, and only once charged does it then start feeding our draw.

No I am a bit too scared to change anything as I have no idea what setting interacts with what setting.

For instance - there are some battery settings that interact with the above AC Output Source Priority:

E.g. Menu 12: Battery Voltage To Switch To Grid Mode (SBU Priority):
Voltage set-point to switch from off-grid mode to grid mode when "SBU Priority" is selected in settings menu 01. This may be a percentage for battery types selected in Setting Menu 5.

E.g. Menu 13: Battery Voltage to switch to Off-Grid Mode (SBU Priority):
Voltage set-point to switch from grid mode to off-grid mode when selecting "SBU Priority" in settings menu.

 

CURRENT BEHAVIOR OF SET UP AT TIME OF WRITING:

My unit was set to SBU after speaking to the installing technician, and the technician said that when the batteries are over 80% charged, it will send solar to the houses draw, and when it is below 80% it will run off the grid, and solar will charge the panels.

This is a real pain, because when there is load-shedding at night, and the the batteries inevitably drop below 80%, when the power comes back on, the inverter pumps in power from the grid to charge the batteries and the inverter makes a noise for quite a while at night.

I really have no idea why I cant just have what sounds like a very basic ask: Solar feed my house when I have a load drawing, eskom feed my house at night, and batteries feed my house when its night time and loadshedding has kicked in.

I have changed the settings BACK to SUB - and the behavior is still happening as described above.

I have looked at the phocos manual, and I can confirm I do not have any Priority Timings set that would override the SUB behaviour.

Can anyone with experience in these Phocos units please guide me.

 

Any-Grid_PSW-H_EN-manual_2020-02-26.pdf

[Jaco Ebersohn]

Good day,

I have a Phocos unit installed and use it in SUB mode. During the day, it would use solar to feed the loads and charge the battery. During the night, it will use the grid and switch to batteries when the grid is not available (load shedding). 

The SUB for source output priority should do what you're asking for. 

Please check your :

1) To grid battery voltage 

2) Back to battery voltage

3) Shutdown battery voltage

Do you know if you have a BMS connection between the batteries and inverter ? This will be required in order to get a more accurate state of charge (SOC) from the batteries. 

 

See below my configuration for the output settings:

I have invested in Solar Assistant a few months ago to better manage how the inverter must switch between the SUB & SBU modes. With this you can optimise battery usage and tell the inverter when to switch to grid and when to use batteries. See the picture below of the configuration I typically use.   

 

Hope this helps ?

 

Regards,

Jaco

[ABarelyFunctionalHumn]

32 minutes ago, Jaco Ebersohn said:

Good day,

I have a Phocos unit installed and use it in SUB mode. During the day, it would use solar to feed the loads and charge the battery. During the night, it will use the grid and switch to batteries when the grid is not available (load shedding). 

The SUB for source output priority should do what you're asking for. 

Please check your :

1) To grid battery voltage 

2) Back to battery voltage

3) Shutdown battery voltage

Do you know if you have a BMS connection between the batteries and inverter ? This will be required in order to get a more accurate state of charge (SOC) from the batteries. 

 

See below my configuration for the output settings:

I have invested in Solar Assistant a few months ago to better manage how the inverter must switch between the SUB & SBU modes. With this you can optimise battery usage and tell the inverter when to switch to grid and when to use batteries. See the picture below of the configuration I typically use.   

 

Hope this helps ?

 

Regards,

Jaco

Hey Jaco,

Thanks for the reply - very interesting - didnt know about Solar assist.

As far as I can see yes - the batteries are connected to the BMS port via - what looks like an ethernet cable  - but I have no idea how to manipulate that BMS via the phocos inverter or the batteries themselves - but the inverter does report on battery state of charge - but as per your screenshot of Solar Assist - I dont see a way to manipulate the SBU/SUB state via the inverter? Although in saying that, when the technician was out he did say "when the batteries are over 80% it will switch to SUB" but I dont want any switching, I want full SUB all of the time (subject to daylight and loadshedding)

 

Any idea how to set that type of threshold outside of Solar Assist and via the Inverter?

[Kalito]

SUB on its own will do what you want but however it works also based on the settings in Menu 12 (Got back to Utility voltage or SOC) and Menu 13 (Go back to battery). What are your values for these menu items?

[ABarelyFunctionalHumn]

36 minutes ago, Kalito said:

SUB on its own will do what you want but however it works also based on the settings in Menu 12 (Got back to Utility voltage or SOC) and Menu 13 (Go back to battery). What are your values for these menu items?

So I have not paid these much attention because attached to these settings was the clarification of:

"when "SBU Priority" is selected in settings menu 01."

And because SBU is not selected in Menu 1 I didnt think these would be applicable?

 

However the settings on my inverter are as follows:

Menu 12: Battery Voltage to Switch to Grid Mode (SBU Priority) = 50Vdc
Description of Menu 12: Voltage set-point to switch to Off-Grid mode to Grid Mode when "SBU Priority" is selected in Settings Menu 01. This may be a percentage for some battery types selected in Setting Menu 5.

Menu 13: Battery Voltage to Switch to Off-Grid Mode (SBU Priority) = "Full" (Checking the menu You can set Voltages between 48Vdc and a max of 64Vdc, otherwise there is a "full" button)
Description of Menu 13: Voltage set-point to switch from Grid Mode to Off-Grid mode when selecting "SBU Priority" in settings menu 01.

Menu 5: Battery Type = User Defined
Description of Menu 5: Settings Menus 26, 27  and 29 can only be modified if "User-Defined" is selected Here.

Menu 26: Boost Battery Charging Voltage = 58.1 Vdc

Menu 27: Floating Battery Charging Boltage = 58.0Vdc

Menu 29: Low battery Voltage Disconnect = 44.2Vdc

 

Hope this helps

 

EDIT:

Menu 13 - manual says:
The battery is considered fully charged when the float charging phase is reached.

Edited February 20, 2023 by ABarelyFunctionalHumn

[Scorp007]

1 hour ago, ABarelyFunctionalHumn said:

So I have not paid these much attention because attached to these settings was the clarification of:

"when "SBU Priority" is selected in settings menu 01."

And because SBU is not selected in Menu 1 I didnt think these would be applicable?

 

However the settings on my inverter are as follows:

Menu 12: Battery Voltage to Switch to Grid Mode (SBU Priority) = 50Vdc
Description of Menu 12: Voltage set-point to switch to Off-Grid mode to Grid Mode when "SBU Priority" is selected in Settings Menu 01. This may be a percentage for some battery types selected in Setting Menu 5.

Menu 13: Battery Voltage to Switch to Off-Grid Mode (SBU Priority) = "Full" (Checking the menu You can set Voltages between 48Vdc and a max of 64Vdc, otherwise there is a "full" button)
Description of Menu 13: Voltage set-point to switch from Grid Mode to Off-Grid mode when selecting "SBU Priority" in settings menu 01.

Menu 5: Battery Type = User Defined
Description of Menu 5: Settings Menus 26, 27  and 29 can only be modified if "User-Defined" is selected Here.

Menu 26: Boost Battery Charging Voltage = 58.1 Vdc

Menu 27: Floating Battery Charging Boltage = 58.0Vdc

Menu 29: Low battery Voltage Disconnect = 44.2Vdc

 

Hope this helps

 

EDIT:

Menu 13 - manual says:
The battery is considered fully charged when the float charging phase is reached.

Refer to what @Kalito indicated. Set 01 at SUB. When there is no grid like during LS battery will be used. When there is no solar after sunset loads will be from grid when available.

As indicated you still need to adjust settings 12 and 13 for when grid is on and not in order to manage the level of battery discharge.

Then there could be setting 16 to adjust how to charge the battery.

[ABarelyFunctionalHumn]

Just coming back here to update you all on what seemed to work for me - someone tried to explain it to me - but Im far too smoothbrained to give you all any type of technical explanation.

Essentially what I have done is:

I have set the AC output setting to SBU (Yes thats correct), this made it behave the way I wanted it to, but we set it to only use the first 20% of the batteries (so if 100% charged, to go to 80% before charging back up again) - because this permanent cycling between charging and discharging forces the inverter to feed off the solar (is how I understand it.), and then after 7pm, I have set a Priority Timer, to change the AC output setting to SUB so that if the batteries are charged at night, to not use them at all, and to only use the grid (when its available) so we arent pointlessly using battery power during the night.

 

When I spoke to someone about why SUB doesnt do what it says on the tin - i.e. use solar first when its available and then Utility - the answer was something akin to: Well, once your batteries are full, you have told the system that you prioritize using the grid first and value the power in your batteries more, than paying for electricity - so it uses utility after your batteries are charged.

 

So as unhelpful as that is - I hope whoever finds this thread gets some level of help.