Hi guys,

My Quattro (8k, 48v) hasn't been set up properly by the installer yet and I need to know how I can configure it to passthrough from the grid to loads on AC1 out without it also charging the batteries, because at the moment I can't even switch it to passthru. I'm on  a run of very cloudy days here and my batteries I discharging more than I want (750 amp hours already consumed) but when I try to put it on "Charger Only" it doesn't supply power to the loads on AC1 out. According to the manual when it is put on "Charger only" is should switch power through from AC1 in to AC1 out.

What I absolutely don't want is for it to switch to the grid and start recharging the batteries at this point because it is going to consume huge amounts of power that I can recoup as soon as the sun comes out. I'm running out of time on this as the batteries are almost at their 47v cut-off point

I think the problem might be that "Power Assist" is implemented and that has a condition somewhere that says "ignore AC1 input".

Can anyone clarify whether the "Power Assist" is the culprit. If I disable "Power Assist" will switching the Quattro to charger only power the loads from the grid without charging the batteries? This is what I need.

My set up:

It is set up in HUB1 mode. AC1 in comes from the grid. No AC2 input. AC1 out powers the house. No AC2 output. No generator. Battery bank. Two MPPT conrollers on the PV side.

For those of you that have VE Config 3, I'm attaching the current setup file of the Quattro so that you can see exactly how it is configured.

Thanks.

PS. After research it seems the best set up for this installation is ESS. This is what I need and I have all the components necessary for this. I'm waiting for the installer to come and upgrade the firmware on the Quattro because the current version (413) doesn't support ESS. The ESS option appears already in my CCGX but it is empty (presumably until I upgrade to 415 minimum on the Quattro)

883314f622a2_inst_ttyO1_Interfaces_Mk2_Tunnel.rvsc

1 hour ago, incagarcilaso said:

HUB1 mode

That's not completely accurate. You're running a makeshift self-consumption setup using the generator assistant to ignore AC-in. That's not quite HUB-1, which is another assistant (which is now deprecated in favour of ESS).

There is an easy way to make it do what you want. Turn off the charger in VEConfigure.

This is so that once the grid is connected, it won't charge the battery.

Then, remember that assistants are evaluated top to bottom, and the last one that matches wins. This means you can add a relay assistant that set the general flag based on an analog input. Then simply install a switch that pulls the analog input down to ground (it has a pull-up resistor, so with the switch open it will read a high value).

The general idea is explained here. Put this relay assistant last (so that when it matches, it overrides the decision made by the the generator assistant).

This is untested. It's an idea to get you going.

Alternatively you can just switch to ESS... 🙂

48 minutes ago, plonkster said:

That's not completely accurate. You're running a makeshift self-consumption setup using the generator assistant to ignore AC-in. That's not quite HUB-1, which is another assistant (which is now deprecated in favour of ESS).

There is an easy way to make it do what you want. Turn off the charger in VEConfigure.

This is so that once the grid is connected, it won't charge the battery.

Then, remember that assistants are evaluated top to bottom, and the last one that matches wins. This means you can add a relay assistant that set the general flag based on an analog input. Then simply install a switch that pulls the analog input down to ground (it has a pull-up resistor, so with the switch open it will read a high value).

The general idea is explained here. Put this relay assistant last (so that when it matches, it overrides the decision made by the the generator assistant).

This is untested. It's an idea to get you going.

Alternatively you can just switch to ESS... 🙂

Thanks Plonkster for the quick reply. I say HUB1 because that is what is showing as the mode in the CCGX. I know this is makeshift and am annoyed with the installer because it seems he didn't know what he was doing. He has set up a workaround for PowerAssist so that when consumption goes over a certain point help kicks in from the grid. But of course this is "back to front" because Power Assist is about using battery power to assist shoreline power rather than the other way around and (as I understand it) he has used the general flag to ignore AC in because of this and because AC1 in is not a generator but the grid.

I have a few questions.

1. If I deselect "Enable charger", will the PV input still charge the batteries?

2. Yes, this should be set up as ESS but the installer didn't update the firmware on the Quattro and so when I try to run the ESS assistant en VE Config it throws an error because of the firmware version. As soon as he comes to update the firmware I will configure this in ESS mode, which is much better for the whole installation.

3. I can do the first part easily enough (disable the charger) but I'm not clear on installing a switch or the analog input. Are you talking about a physical switch or a virtual one?

4. Exactly which assistants would I need to have and in what order?

5. I really don't follow the role of the virtual switch tab or the general flag assistant.

6. What if I just disable the charger and remove the two current assistants - will that work? I just need to get out of this fix I'm in for the next couple of days.

3 hours ago, incagarcilaso said:

1. If I deselect "Enable charger", will the PV input still charge the batteries?

If you're using MPPTs, yes.

3 hours ago, incagarcilaso said:

6. What if I just disable the charger and remove the two current assistants - will that work? I just need to get out of this fix I'm in for the next couple of days.

Yes that should do the trick.

OK, so I am answering this a bit out of order. Next message.

3 hours ago, incagarcilaso said:

2. Yes, this should be set up as ESS but the installer didn't update the firmware on the Quattro and so when I try to run the ESS assistant en VE Config it throws an error because of the firmware version. As soon as he comes to update the firmware I will configure this in ESS mode, which is much better for the whole installation.

I noted your serial number starts with 1821, 21st week of 2018. So this will have a 26 MCU and can be updated to firmware 4xx.

3 hours ago, incagarcilaso said:

3. I can do the first part easily enough (disable the charger) but I'm not clear on installing a switch or the analog input. Are you talking about a physical switch or a virtual one?

You install a physical switch that you can toggle by hand. You configure only one relay assistant (the link I shared shows two), and all it has to do is ensure that the general flag is unset whenever you close the switch (otherwise do nothing). Close the switch and it won't ignore the AC-input. I had such a setup a long time ago that I used for the same purpose.

Of course, you really also should have a bypass switch so you don't get into this "I can't power AC-out-1" situation in the first place.

3 hours ago, incagarcilaso said:

4. Exactly which assistants would I need to have and in what order?

For ESS, just the one assistant.

To modify your existing setup, you add just one relay assistant right at the bottom, the rest remains the same.

3 hours ago, incagarcilaso said:

say HUB1 because that is what is showing as the mode in the CCGX

Aaah ok, I understand. It defaults to showing HUB-1 if 1) there is no ESS assistant, and 2) there are MPPTs, which is kinda accurate if a little confusing.

1 hour ago, plonkster said:

I noted your serial number starts with 1821, 21st week of 2018. So this will have a 26 MCU and can be updated to firmware 4xx.

You install a physical switch that you can toggle by hand. You configure only one relay assistant (the link I shared shows two), and all it has to do is ensure that the general flag is unset whenever you close the switch (otherwise do nothing). Close the switch and it won't ignore the AC-input. I had such a setup a long time ago that I used for the same purpose.

Of course, you really also should have a bypass switch so you don't get into this "I can't power AC-out-1" situation in the first place.

For ESS, just the one assistant.

To modify your existing setup, you add just one relay assistant right at the bottom, the rest remains the same.

Aaah ok, I understand. It defaults to showing HUB-1 if 1) there is no ESS assistant, and 2) there are MPPTs, which is kinda accurate if a little confusing.

Thank you. Very clear.

I have carried out a couple of experiments, which haven't worked unfortunately.

I'm sure your solution will work but the relay on the BMV is currently used of another purpose so I am not able to wire a physical relay into the Quattro.

Because I don't have a physical relay available I looked for an alternative.

What I tried was to use 2 "programmable relay" assistants. The first one stipulated to turn the general flag off when battery voltage was lower than 48v. The second one stipulated to turn the general flag on when the battery voltage was above 52v. However, once this configuration was uploaded it made the passthru switch back and forth continually (based on the first "programmable relay" it seems). It dropped below 48v and switched to passthru. As soon as it switched to passthru the voltage rose slightly and so it then switched back to inverter mode and so on and so on.

I don't know why it ignored the second programmable relay, which I made sure was authoritative by putting it last in the list.

Any ideas on why this didn't work?

It's a shame the "programmable relay" assistant doesn't work in the same way as the relays in the BMV or on the CCGX where you have both an activate and de-activate condition in the set up of the relay. This way it would work.

I noticed there is also an assistant called the "relay locker" with fairly obvious use. But the options in there are not clear. You can choose to implement it acccording to "primary programmable relay", "secondary programmale relay K1" or "secondary programmable relay K2". I'm not sure whether these options refer to physical or software relays. If the "primary programmable relay" refers to the "programmable relay" assistant then I could lock that for a maximum of 5 hours (max. allowed 16300 seconds) but this isn't clear.

I think for now, following your tips, I will disable the charger and then change the battery voltage threshold parameters in the "generator start and stop" assistant. That way I can get an instant passthru (battery voltage is already down to 47.6) but the mains will not charge the batteries (that can be done with the MPPTs when the sun comes back out).

I'm attaching an image of the current "generator start and stop" assistant, used in combination with the "general flag user". I'll just change the relay condition to 48v instead of 47v and that should do it - right?

I hope this works.

Hopefully next week I can get the firmware update to 415 or above and implement ESS. You're right about my Quattro having the newer chipset and able to implement ESS. I also checked on this.

Thanks for all your help.

 

4 hours ago, incagarcilaso said:

I'm attaching an image of the current "generator start and stop" assistant, used in combination with the "general flag user". I'll just change the relay condition to 48v instead of 47v and that should do it - right?

Yeah, that's a good idea too!