Cvzyl's comment on cheap skate and what someone said to me today in that Victron are heavy duty workhorses, a penny dropped.

The debate between Victron and other brands, for me, has left the building. The question is simple: Do you need a simple heavy duty workhorse, yes or no?

Comparing V's and A' to Tata vs Toyota, I think we have it wrong.

The comparison should be rather like a Unimog (thinking of the Buffels I used to drive in Angola) versus a Land Cruiser, or a Jeep, the real ones used in off-road conditions in Africa - not to climb a pavement or a through pothole in Sandton having mud sprayed on Mo morning on the way to work to "look" like you went "off road" over the weekend.

See, if you really want to go off the road, drive through donga's without first climbing out and walking them, just do it, climbing over military base walls, doing 80km/h (I said 100, ok 100 on a dirt road, 110 on tar) through the raw veld going over and sometimes through "selected" small trees, or driving through beautiful green shona's after the rains, trust me, you want a Unimog. A Land Cruiser / Jeep will NEVER go where we have gone in said Unimogs. And if a Unimog gets stuck in said shona, no-one is going to dig (it is too deep and muddy and it stinks and it sticks), another Unimog just comes from behind in your tracks at speed and rams you from behind, you "jump" out and floor it. Or connect a towbar and both floor it. Simple. 

A N Y C A S E, way I look at it now, as most if not nearly in all applications in cities, a Victron does not fit the bill, literally and financially, you can get 4 Axperts in and around 5km from your house if yours breaks if it breaks, for the price of same wattage V inverter, with no need for harsh protection against salty air on the ocean, or reliability because you are 200km from the nearest town and a month waiting for parts, it just makes no sense to look at V's in cities unless you have the cash to spend..

 

9 hours ago, plonkster said:

The very fact that people choose the Axpert over the Infini actually answers this question perfectly ...

It does does it not.

Nope, before anyone says anything, I will still get a Victron. :-)

As humans, we suffer from confirmation bias and a heap of other issues. It's well known that if you paid a lot for a product, you will tend to believe that it is a good product (because the alternative is to admit that you got duped... any nobody wants that). Conversely, if you didn't pay that much for it, you'll always remember that father told you that "goedkoop is duurkoop".

What is needed is a fair comparison, and if you are fair, then you won't compare the Multiplus and the Axpert, because they are not in the same class. I did a quick comparison again this morning, based on 26 points that came from this video. The trouble is that there are a whole lot of things we simply don't know about either inverter.

For example, these items:

1. Soft start, when you turn the inverter on, does it ramp up to 230V in a nice smooth stroke? I would expect the Victron to do it at the particular price point... but both inverters need to be tested.

2. Protection features. The Victron has a heap of protection features, including at least one that we know the Axpert doesn't have: protection for 230V connected to the output. You know, that thing where the Axpert blows up because the programming didn't take when you tried to parallel them? So once again, there are around 8 items on the list and all would have to be teted.

3. DC ripple, we don't know.

4. Electromagnetic interference. We don't know, needs a test.

Going through that list there are two things where the Axpert wins in my opinion, the remote panel/switch (yes, there is one for the Victron, but it is expensive), and the low price. If we assume that in the cases where we don't know exactly how good it is it is at least on par, then it seems to me that I would give the Axpert 6/10 and the Multi a 9/10. Which once again brings you to the question, are you really going to pay 200% extra for 3/10? If you don't need the hybrid features, then I really really do understand why people buy it.

True. For me it is simpler. You want one and make a plan to get one, or you don't.

I know I said:

11 hours ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

The debate between Victron and other brands, for me, has left the building.

It has for I really don't care anymore, this backwards and forward based on emotional debates and / or assumptions, being as political correct as we can be, is tiresome.

So to get down to the bare bones, I want to actually be able to make a statement, based on data, having compared apples with apples, as you also allude to Plonkster.

I say battery banks cost a lot more than any single, or 4+ Axpert inverters, with MPPT's.

To this effect we took delivery of a loan Victron 150/35 MPPT controller to do just such a comparison. Test should start next week weather permitting. No, not by me, I am biased and know what I have. It will be done by an Axpert user.

Doing a comparison between the two inverters outputs and all that stuff, someone else can tackle that, for it is way above my level of comprehension.