Their is unhappy Farmer paid 350 K for Solar System batteries not charging got 3 Inverter Two Are Schneider One Victron 48 volt  Quantum not linked to system two companies involved no help from them. 180 Ah x 8 in system after 3 years not fully charged. When Escom cut power the whole system go dead. This farmer said their no MPPT no monitor controls after 350 k. He does not see his power savings at Municipality. Their is also 40 panels on roof 4 strings 250 watt each panel. This was a Grid tie system. 

What was big problem here and what could be done for this farmer. He does not want to spent a cent furthher and he very well known farmer. 

Please give advice.  

Edited April 6, 20197 yr by Johan Helberg

Let me start of by saying, this is sad, very very sad!!!

Schneider and Victron are both tried and tested systems, systems that WORK.

So I would lean towards - as a starting point:
The installer/s not fully versed in the install of the products.
Or they are and there is a caveat in the install that they are missing that what is causing the problems.
You don't mix and match installers. One has to take the lead or they both put up their hands and blames the other.
Or last case, but not unheard of, the client being the hindrance.

Quantum or Quattro? I assume Quattro - why is it not connected if it is bought? 
If not connected, how is it a problem? 🙂 Just asking.

Going grid tied is easy and it can become very flaky if not done incorrectly like:
No savings? The system feeds the power back into the grid and the meter charges for that feedback.
Fix: Don't feed back or get a bidirectional meter - approved by the Municipality or Eskom, if they supply the power.

Eskom goes off, so does the system?
If the install is not as per manufacturers specification, when Eskom goes off and the Schneiders / Victron switch off, that COULD be to protect themselves.
Or they cannot operate due to drained batteries / overload.

Batteries not charging?
Settings / cables / overuse - multitude of reasons.

Not paying one cent more?
That is a problem for the well known farmer. What the farmer should say, I will pay for it to be fixed and once it IS fixed and working, then recoup that cost from the previous installer. To say he is not going to pay one cent more, to the existing installer, yes, shooting himself in the foot on a new person who can fix it, damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario. 🙂 

 

My point in all the above, it is not cut and dry easy solution. It sounds like a mess. 

Lets talk here, as it is not a Victron install.

The install:

1 hour ago, Johan Helberg said:

Power Generation:

10kW single Phase Grid Tied Inverter System (2 x Schneider Electric RL5000s)

10kWp Solar Array (40 Panels, Sloped-roof Mounting Structure)

Back-up Power:

10kW Single Phase Inverter (1 x Victron Quattro 48V)

8.8kWh Battery Kit (8 x 180Ah Batteries, Cabinets & Monitor)

 The 40 panels are connected together 10 at a time to form 4 incoming lines. 

 

1 hour ago, Johan Helberg said:

1. Two Schneider Inverters One Victron 48v Quattro grid tie system.
2. Two Schneider was in Grid tie but Victron not helping charging when grid went of
3. 180 Ah batteries x 8 did not stay charged.
4 .Two companies was involved and their service was poor. No MPPT to charge batteries no coular code to watch system. 

1. Grid tied - as said above, it can be interesting with going grid tied. 
2. Victron cannot charge:
2.1. if there is no power when the two Schneider's go off when Eskom is off.
2.2. Depending on the Victron's settings, is may not charge if Eskom is on.
3. That is a simple problem to fix ... 
4. As said above, two companies could be problematic.

 

1 hour ago, Johan Helberg said:

1. The system is configured so that the batteries are charged from Eskom power. When the Eskom power goes off the panels do not charge the batteries at all. This is a major problem for me as my backup hours could be greatly extended if the panels were charging the batteries when Eskom is down. There is currently no charge controller for the batteries.

2. There is no monitoring system of any sort. I have no idea of generation VS consumption. I need to have some form of monitoring system installed on the Schneider as well as on the Victron.

3. The system is grid tied and I sell back to the Municipality. The rates that they buy from me is very low compared to the rates that I buy from them. I would like a solution where at night when the sun goes down that I use my batteries as opposed to paying for peak period rates. When the batteries go lower than a certain % then the system should switch back to Eskom power and also charge the batteries.

 In a nutshell that is what I am looking for plus any other advice that will give me better performance from the investment.

What was supposed to be done why  two Schneider inverter first place with 10 Kva Victron 48? Is this not over kill and batteries is not charging when grid go off. 

1.1) Why charge batteries using Eskom? Batteries must be charge from solar only.
1.2) Grid tied. When Eskom goes off the grid tied inverters WILL STOP WORKING. You need a Hybrid Grid Tied solution to keep on using the panels.

2.1) That is just sloppiness from whomever installed the system. Client should have checked that he has the monitoring capabilities.
2.2) Victron has the monitoring abilities, if you have a VenusGX. Have no idea what Schneider has to offer.

3) Simple setup to make work as client wants. All of us here do that. 🙂 

Yes, why two Schneiders?
The Victron inverter with added parts like a MPPT, VenusGX with ESS software enable, Carlo Gavassi ET112 and a Ziehl could have done EXACTLY what the client wanted.
Or, he could have done it all with Schneider - if they can do a HYBRID GRID TIED solution i.e. use batteries AND panels when Eskom is off.
Feeding back all excess power to the Municipality when Eskom is on..

Edited April 6, 20197 yr by Guest

Man, this is a deurmekaar issue.

From a very cursory reading it seems there is a Victron Quattro that operates as a UPS, and Schneider GTIs that put the PV power directly onto the AC side. So if Eskom goes down your PV disconnects. That is how this kind of setup works and it would have to be reconfigured to make it work differently.

The two ways of reconfiguring it is to 1) install a solar charger and move the PV panels over (but what do you then do with the Scheiders?), OR... to move the Schneiders onto the output of the Quattro... but before you do that you will have to check if this sort of arrangement is even supported. In fact, let me simply go out on a limb and say that whoever installed this seems to be a Schneider fan and the Quattro was put in as an afterthought. If the system was designed as a whole from the beginning, you'd be using Fronius, ABB or SMA PV-inverters instead, they'd be tied to the output of the Quattro, and there'd be a monitoring computer (Venus-GX or CCGX) in the system.

So my advice is to fire those two companies and get  qualified Victron installer in.

Also, watch the ESS Webinar on Youtube to get an idea of the various configurations. That will also help to understand why the PV goes down with the grid and why the Quattro cannot charge in that case.

Edited April 6, 20197 yr by plonkster

R350k later .....  name and shame ...  my heart goes out to the poor farmer.