Hi All,

Been reading your forum for quite a while but this is my first post.  I have an existing installation which I had to turn off about three years back as my Fronius IG Plus 50V is not on the NRS list and would also not satisfy CoCT's 60 AMP breaker requirement anyway, so that has to come out.

I have a few questions if you could oblige. 

PV installer won't proceed without a house CoC that is more than five years old.  I bought in 2002, so my house CoC is way past that.  Besides the solar install nothing major has been done to the house electricity wise.

1) I have done the CoC in order to proceed (R8.5K cost), but was wondering if this house CoC greater than 5 years is actually a requirement for CoCT PV Grid Tied application?

2) I see the Solis hybrids "might" now be available locally given a post on this forum, but can't find anything for sale online at the 3KW (60 amp breaker) level.  Does anyone know of anyone selling these and if so where?

3) Does anyone know if the hybrid issue has been sorted with CoCT regarding the "impossible switch" issue discussed on this forum, or are all hybrids on the NRS list essentially still impossible given the regulations and the city's attitude as they stand?

4) For the short term (to make the CoCT deadline at the end of next month) I am going to go with the Solis Mini 4G 3.0kW as it is literally all I can afford at the moment given the cost of the CoC and the new installer's charges for their CoC on top of the house CoC.  Has anyone got one of these Solis Minis, and are they happy with it? 

5) Does the Solis non feedback mechanism satisfy CoCT's grid tied application requirements?

6) Last question.  Do the Solis Hybrid inverters use the same mechanism for not feeding back to the grid as the non-hybrids?  Or is a meter / sensor necessary, or is that all part of the hybrid inverter itself?

Phaedrus

PS, there will be a Fronius IG Plus 50V up for sale shortly, anyone interested?

21 hours ago, IdlePhaedrus said:

Hi All,

Been reading your forum for quite a while but this is my first post.  I have an existing installation which I had to turn off about three years back as my Fronius IG Plus 50V is not on the NRS list and would also not satisfy CoCT's 60 AMP breaker requirement anyway, so that has to come out.

I have a few questions if you could oblige. 

PV installer won't proceed without a house CoC that is more than five years old.  I bought in 2002, so my house CoC is way past that.  Besides the solar install nothing major has been done to the house electricity wise.

1) I have done the CoC in order to proceed (R8.5K cost), but was wondering if this house CoC greater than 5 years is actually a requirement for CoCT PV Grid Tied application?

2) I see the Solis hybrids "might" now be available locally given a post on this forum, but can't find anything for sale online at the 3KW (60 amp breaker) level.  Does anyone know of anyone selling these and if so where?

3) Does anyone know if the hybrid issue has been sorted with CoCT regarding the "impossible switch" issue discussed on this forum, or are all hybrids on the NRS list essentially still impossible given the regulations and the city's attitude as they stand?

4) For the short term (to make the CoCT deadline at the end of next month) I am going to go with the Solis Mini 4G 3.0kW as it is literally all I can afford at the moment given the cost of the CoC and the new installer's charges for their CoC on top of the house CoC.  Has anyone got one of these Solis Minis, and are they happy with it? 

5) Does the Solis non feedback mechanism satisfy CoCT's grid tied application requirements?

6) Last question.  Do the Solis Hybrid inverters use the same mechanism for not feeding back to the grid as the non-hybrids?  Or is a meter / sensor necessary, or is that all part of the hybrid inverter itself?

Phaedrus

PS, there will be a Fronius IG Plus 50V up for sale shortly, anyone interested?

Hi, and welcome to the forum. I take it you're in Cape Town?

 

1. For R8.5K did the electrician fix / replace anything or was it purely inspection + paper work? 
2. I have 4 Solis Energy Storage 3.0kW Hybrid Inverters in stock right now if you're interested. Will send you a PM
3. There are some hybrid inverters on the CoCT list. 
4. Will send you a PM
5. If it's on the list, and within your breaker limits (I take it you have a 60A breaker?) then it should tick off fine. 
6. That depends on what you see as a Hybrid. A Grid-tie inverter works diffent from an off-grid inverter. Many people refer to the Axpert inverters as Hybrid, and they are too some degree a hybrid, but not a true hybrid that can mix sources. Well, the Axpert King can, but it's not on the list. 

Speak to @The Terrible Triplett for contacts in the Cape Area who can help with the COC and CoCT stuff. 

 

21 hours ago, IdlePhaedrus said:

PV installer won't proceed without a house CoC that is more than five years old.  I bought in 2002, so my house CoC is way past that.  Besides the solar install nothing major has been done to the house electricity wise.

1) I have done the CoC in order to proceed (R8.5K cost), but was wondering if this house CoC greater than 5 years is actually a requirement for CoCT PV Grid Tied application?

3) Does anyone know if the hybrid issue has been sorted with CoCT regarding the "impossible switch" issue discussed on this forum, or are all hybrids on the NRS list essentially still impossible given the regulations and the city's attitude as they stand?

4) For the short term (to make the CoCT deadline at the end of next month) I am going to go with the Solis Mini 4G 3.0kW as it is literally all I can afford at the moment given the cost of the CoC and the new installer's charges for their CoC on top of the house CoC.  Has anyone got one of these Solis Minis, and are they happy with it? 

PV Installer may have a angle he is working ... 
1) Nonsens. Our house is 20+ and the CoC given was for the work done.
3) Sorted.
4) If the papers are in, you are ok.

Send me a PM for sparkies and engineers details.

 

Thanks both,

18 minutes ago, SilverNodashi said:

• For R8.5K did the electrician fix / replace anything or was it purely inspection + paper work? 
• I have 4 Solis Energy Storage 3.0kW Hybrid Inverters in stock right now if you're interested. Will send you a PM
• There are some hybrid inverters on the CoCT list. 
• Will send you a PM
• If it's on the list, and within your breaker limits (I take it you have a 60A breaker?) then it should tick off fine. 
• That depends on what you see as a Hybrid. A Grid-tie inverter works diffent from an off-grid inverter. Many people refer to the Axpert inverters as Hybrid, and they are too some degree a hybrid, but not a true hybrid that can mix sources. Well, the Axpert King can, but it's not on the list. 

1. For the 8.5K they replaced the old DB board (which I have to admit was very old and sad) all with Hager switches / breakers etc.  They also checked / replaced other bits and pieces and I got the final paperwork this afternoon.
2. Thanks for the PM, I cannot afford that at the moment, so am just going to stick with the Solis Mini 3kw and look into other options down the line.
3. Yes, I have seen them, thanks.
4. Yes am on 60A breaker.
5. Maybe the Axpert will eventually make it's way onto the list and I can combine that with above with an additional DB board or something.  As I say, that is going to have to wait.

 

10 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

PV Installer may have a angle he is working ... 
1) Nonsens. Our house is 20+ and the CoC given was for the work done.
3) Sorted.
4) If the papers are in, you are ok.

1. Interesting, thanks, I will make a bit of a noise about this down the line with the new installer.
2. Great.
3. The papers aren't in yet as the installer insisted on the new CoC to accompany the application along with theirs for the solar stuff.  I have sent them a copy, they must now proceed with the application.  Hopefully it is not too late.  I have been speaking to the installer since December and have had to nudge just to get this far, so not overly happy..

Responses very much appreciated.

Phaedrus

43 minutes ago, IdlePhaedrus said:

For the 8.5K they replaced the old DB board (which I have to admit was very old and sad) all with Hager switches / breakers etc.  They also checked / replaced other bits and pieces and I got the final paperwork this afternoon. 

That's not unreasonable. A DB redo cost me about 6.5k... in 2016. I basically just paid the guy to come for a whole day and just get it done...

2 minutes ago, plonkster said:

That's not unreasonable. A DB redo cost me about 6.5k... in 2016. I basically just paid the guy to come for a whole day and just get it done...

Thanks, yes, I thought it reasonable given everything, was just miffed I needed to get a new CoC for the house generally as per installer's requirements...

Oh well, we live and learn...

13 minutes ago, IdlePhaedrus said:

Thanks, yes, I thought it reasonable given everything, was just miffed I needed to get a new CoC for the house generally as per installer's requirements...

Oh well, we live and learn...

That doesn't sound right though. If the house had a COC, a new one wasn't necessary. And even old DB boards are still valid as long as everything is safe and done as per the regulations. i.e. if something new was fitted the COC should be amended accordingly. 

30 minutes ago, IdlePhaedrus said:

miffed

 

15 minutes ago, SilverNodashi said:

doesn't sound right

Reminds me of when family of mine sold a flat in Cape Town. First guy came out, looked at the fuses that were still in use (old old place), said it has to all come out, new DB, new breakers, etc. So they called another guy. He came in and said ... naaaah this is fine as long as you made no modifications, and gave them the paperwork.

So I suppose it's kind-of a can-I-get-away-with-it-and-should-I? situation. If you're going to install solar power, a DB redo was coming anyway...

Yup, I think that is pretty much it.  The old board had old rails anyway so it was difficult to put in geyser timers and whatnot.

3 minutes ago, plonkster said:

Reminds me of when family of mine sold a flat in Cape Town. First guy came out, looked at the fuses that were still in use (old old place), said it has to all come out, new DB, new breakers, etc. So they called another guy. He came in and said ... naaaah this is fine as long as you made no modifications, and gave them the paperwork.

So I suppose it's kind-of a can-I-get-away-with-it-and-should-I? situation. If you're going to install solar power, a DB redo was coming anyway...

 

2 hours ago, IdlePhaedrus said:

I thought it reasonable given everything, was just miffed I needed to get a new CoC for the house generally as per installer's requirements...

Uhm, I sent in my paperwork with no CoC, no test done, just what I intend installing.

Few weeks later I got the go-ahead after which I did the CoC and Engineering report.

Why do the entire thing and then if something is off, CoCT says no, you cannot?

Send in the form with just what you can complete.

18 hours ago, plonkster said:

 

Reminds me of when family of mine sold a flat in Cape Town. First guy came out, looked at the fuses that were still in use (old old place), said it has to all come out, new DB, new breakers, etc. So they called another guy. He came in and said ... naaaah this is fine as long as you made no modifications, and gave them the paperwork.

So I suppose it's kind-of a can-I-get-away-with-it-and-should-I? situation. If you're going to install solar power, a DB redo was coming anyway...

I bought a house. Quite a bit one. I noticed quite a few electrical issues so I asked for the COC (that I had not been given). The Estate Agent gave it to me. 

I then contacted the previous owners and asked about the work done - they send me the bill the electricians charged. Nicely itemized for over 40 thousand Rand !

It was immediately obvious that none of the work quoted for was actually carried out. So I reported them to the electrical inspection authority. They then spent two days in the house going through everything with a fine toothcomb (at my cost). The original electrician then had to come out and fix everything they found at his cost.  

 

1 minute ago, The Bulldog said:

at his cost

Well, he was already paid for it... 🙂

Just now, plonkster said:

Well, he was already paid for it... 🙂

The inspection authority found a lot more wrong...

But it was not a happy ending - after three days the electrician decided the inspection authority cannot do anything to him (stated as much) and was never seen again.

I could have taken it further but left it at that. The remaining work that needed to be done was not that big a deal and I simply did it myself.

Point is - these COC's are often not worth the paper they are written on and after having survived two property sales I am well aware of the outright fraud going on with respect to COCs. Just the fact that you will be paying (a lot) for any inspection by the actual authority that oversees this illegal activity is protecting the trade very nicely.

I do believe that there are good and honest electricians out there that do proper COCs that mean something. I just have so far only met one of them. 

10 minutes ago, The Bulldog said:

... these COC's are often not worth the paper they are written on ...

O, I can so relate. Had some work done a few years back. Got a CoC. Same guys came out last year, "O NO!" the guy said, this is not legal. So I gave him the CoC his boss gave me the last time the work was done. Not a word, Bossman came, spent the day and re-did the work a 2nd time, no cost to me.

 

However!!! The ONLY time that CoC becomes a massive huge issue is if something goes wrong like say a house burnt down, or someone got shocked badly / was killed THEN the gloves and everything else comes off when say a Liability claim was submitted and the insurer decides to recoup their payout. 🙂 

40 minutes ago, The Bulldog said:

I bought a house. Quite a bit one. I noticed quite a few electrical issues so I asked for the COC (that I had not been given). The Estate Agent gave it to me. 

I then contacted the previous owners and asked about the work done - they send me the bill the electricians charged. Nicely itemized for over 40 thousand Rand !

It was immediately obvious that none of the work quoted for was actually carried out. So I reported them to the electrical inspection authority. They then spent two days in the house going through everything with a fine toothcomb (at my cost). The original electrician then had to come out and fix everything they found at his cost.  

 

Something similar happend to us. A few years ago my dad sold his house. And at the time while it was on sale, lighting struck and there was some damage, though not much as the house was empty already. So he got someone in to check it out and the one guy quoted R8k to replace an old Isolator and sign a new COC. The next guy who came in quoted R45k to rewire the WHOLE HOUSE as his argument was that old wiring and DB's are against the law. They're not, as long as everything is earthed properly and the wires in the roof don't run right next to each other. And some other clauses I forgot. The previous COC was valid, up to that point. So we got in a 3rd guy, he managed to source the same old CB's and replaced it, and signed a COC for R2k or something. 

A week or two after the deed was transferred the new owner phoned me, the geyser stopped working. I asked him todo basic trouble shooting, he did, still nothing. So I said, well there is a new valid COC, phone the electrician. They ended up replacing the thermostat which was working previously but just stopped working at that time. 

 

Another story: My mom inherited my gran's house, some years ago. They had todo a change of ownership and needed a COC. Though we learned later it isn't actually necessary in this case, even though the lawyer insisted on it. The sparky charged her R2.5K for inspection, only! He then started listing everything that it wrong. It's an old house, old DB board with old breakers and old style plugs. For some odd reason he turned down every light switch and plug in the house as it was old, but not the DB board. He also said the garage motor and gate motor won't pass since there's no isolator at the motor.  The SANS book says something like, if it's within eye sight, it's not necessary (I forgot the exact words)I showed him the book and he just vanished. Never returned our calls or emails. The next sparky happily fixed a few minor issues and signed the COC with the existing old DB and old plugs and light switches.  

Well one of the cases I had (selling a house), well known local inspection company comes out with a small army of what I guess are electricians and they merrily go about their work and want to replace this and that because of "the codes". Of course I was wise to that by now and had bought my own copy of SANS10142 so took it out and asked" "OK where does it say that ?" Of course I'd done my homework and nothing needed doing anywhere. So the guys left.

Not an old house or a very big one - they wanted to install all sorts of unnecessary isolators replace fittings, plugs, even some cables I could find no issue with.

Two days later I received a bill for the work but no COC and the comment: "No COC due to customer interference". Of course I did not pay them. Then handed the work to a "normal" electrical company - they came out, had a good look around - did the earthing tests and checked the breakers etc. No issues found except: Cleaned the DB board, rerouted one earth wire, no charge, COC issued for a couple of hundred bucks.

I learned my lesson.