Thought other might find this of interest as there isn't a great deal about these inverters on PF.

Yesterday my installer installed the Solis 4G 3.0kw dual mppt inverter which uses the CT mechanism to prevent feedback to the grid.

Am in Cape Town and have an Itron prepaid meter and also have a 3.0KW array of panels.

So far there hasn't been any major issues, except the DC breaker installed burned out when the system was commissioned.  Not sure what make it was.

The interesting bit is the percentage of load that the inverter handles in the zero feedback scenario given default the zero feedback settings. 

Here is a table representing the inverter's reported output and the Itron's instantaneous power reading at the same time, along with the percentage of load that the Solis is handling given those numbers and various loads I have put on the system since this morning:

Am pretty sure the system has available power to push a bit higher, and the %ge of load tends to be better when the overall load is higher.

The web / mobile monitoring software is a bit of a pain, and we haven't got that right yet.  More on this down the line when that is up and running.

Hope others find this of interest.

Phaedrus

 

 

Further to this, I have done a bit of research.

According to the manual the inverter CT testing procedure requires a load of >= 500 watts, which suggests any feedback prevention below that level may be anomalous using the CT mechanism.

Also, above that level the problem may be over-feed rather than under-feed.  I suspect it is under-feed, but I will do more tests when I have time to confirm given what I have at hand, which is a bit blunt.  An electronic meter with a bunch of CTs would be first prize, but that is not in my arsenal  just yet.  It's coming.

Given the default inverter settings, If it is underfeed, the level is around 90% of load and if it is overfeed the level is about 13% over the load.

Also, there are newer versions of the printed manual that came with the inverter.  The most recent (2.2) mentions the use of a proper meter rather than a CT to measure load, which may be more accurate.  This is entirely new to me.  I thought the CT was the only mechanism.  So there you go.

Newer inverter firmware / software might also mitigate the load issue.  I am running 0b0009, but cannot find resources on how old it is, but probably 2016.  Have passed this onto the installer to see what they come back with.

Still don't have access to the monitoring data at Ginlong.  More on this down the line.

 

Interesting development. 

Today the Itron prepaid meter tripped at the repeater in the box down the road.  So CoCT had to be called to reset it.  Sparky said it was "random".  They came within an hour and a half, which was pretty impressive for a Saturday.

Running at the time was solar, pool (850w) and washing machine on cold cycle (?w, 2004 Defy).  Wellpoint pump has been recommissioned this week as well, so that may have kicked in as it is not behaving, think I need to get a new pressure switch and / or pump (850w).  Computer (150w) and a number of other low watt devices including alarm, chargers etc.

Total max load probably around 1800w.

So I will leave the solar off until Monday morning until I have spoken to installer I think, unless I feel reckless and switch on tomorrow.

Down to possible cause, well I don't know.  Either the old Defy washing machine and inverter don't like one another, or something else.

Definitely cloud edge effect weather here today, and with the old Fronius inverter running in 2016 if I recall correctly AC output spiked as high as 3.6kw when it happened, but then I would expect the inverter to trip, not the meter.

Anyone got any thoughts on this?

Still don't have access to the data being uploaded to Ginlong, so can't see what exactly was happening.  More on the monitoring side down the line...

 

1 hour ago, IdlePhaedrus said:

washing machine

I have seen kw's being pushed back for a couple of seconds on my Itron meter before the MPPT adjusted with stuff like:
Washing machine
Microwave
Induction plates - man they are all over the watt range from say wot 2kw from inverter to 2kw pushed back and it is very few seconds.
... or when big loads switch off like oven, geysers etc.

So I sincerely hope your installer is right that it was a "random" event, seeing as I also have a Itron unit.

10 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

So I sincerely hope your installer is right that it was a "random" event, seeing as I also have a Itron unit.

It was the CoCT sparky who said it was probably random.  Installer hasn't weighed in yet, but thanks for the input.

If I have to run the washing machine without the solar for now then so be it.  It's old and should probably be replaced anyway, it isn't efficient.  I hate replacing things that still work though, and it doesn't get used a lot, and then mostly only on cold cycle.

I haven't used the microwave on solar yet.  If it is switched on once a month then it is lucky.  It is also old.  I'd probably throw it out and not replace it.

Not running induction hob.

Hmmm. 

1 hour ago, IdlePhaedrus said:

I hate replacing things that still work though, ...

I'm so with you on that. Don't replace anything yet. Obviously you will first make sure the washing machine is the cause.

1 hour ago, IdlePhaedrus said:

I haven't used the microwave on solar yet. 

Solis = grid tied so if you have used the microwave it was being power from the Solis, not so?

Edited August 31, 20196 yr by Guest

18 hours ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

Solis = grid tied so if you have used the microwave it was being power from the Solis, not so?

Yes, but the Microwave has been off at the wall switch since before the Solis was commissioned.  If it is turned on once a month then it is a lot (bit like my love life 🙄).

Another interesting thing happened today.  I emptied and refilled the Jacuzzi for summer.  It hardly gets used as that is a true guzzler of watts.

The lights on the temperature control repeater flickered for a few seconds, there was an audible click, and then it died.

It is old, and if this had happened in isolation I would have said fine, no problem.  But there's too many coincidences going on for this too not to be suspect.

I have left the solar off since yesterday, so that isn't involved, so I am beginning to suspect a sub par db board installation which was replaced as part of getting the solar up and running.

Hmm...

 

20 hours ago, IdlePhaedrus said:

suspect a sub par db board installation

O, I have had two run-ins with sub par work on two DB's.

3 hours ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

suspect a sub par db board installation

What were the issues?  And the symptoms?

Installer has just accused me of changing my system, so are absolving themselves of responsibility for any issues.

Am thoroughly offended, I have not touched any of the electrical work since the house was CoC'd by their sub-contractor, or any of the inverter settings.  Just given them my thoughts on the possible over / under supply issues given the CT as articulated above.  Am a little hot under the collar at the moment.  Think I will have a beer. 🍺

Still no access to the upload data.

18 minutes ago, IdlePhaedrus said:

What were the issues?  And the symptoms?

First that fiasco of never knowing that the earth of the house was not on par. Moment inverter tried to sync I had drama. The problem was fixed by moving to a TN-C-S connection.

On a 2nd DB installed behind a changeover switch, each time the Victron synced back to Eskom it will trip the inverter until the changeover switch was put back to Eskom feed, and not Inverter feed. The electrician who installed the changeover AND blew up a 12k online UPS, never "understood" what I meant when I said: Move LIVE and NEUTRAL.

Then I had to remove all the surge protection plugs. The Victron Multigrid is quite sensitive to quirks, which I found (in the end) quite encouraging once all "problems" where removed.

Today it works like a dream EDIT:  AND I have surge arresting on the main incoming line AND after the inverter to guard against anything coming back from like a satellite dish / TV aerial.

18 minutes ago, IdlePhaedrus said:

Installer has just accused me of changing my system ...

Does that not sound like they have NO clue what is potting and want to "get out" of finding a solution?

Must say, I am quite "fond" of Solis, nearly bought one but data is quite an important part, want to see EVERYTHING. Hope yours gets resolved.

Edited September 2, 20196 yr by Guest

2 hours ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

Does that not sound like they have NO clue what is potting and want to "get out" of finding a solution?

After registering my annoyance and displeasure the installer has apologised and retracted their accusation.

As things stand I am still annoyed that the accusation was made in the fist instance as it was completely without basis and unwarranted.

Have been dealing with them since December last year.  The process in the end will cost just over R30K to get an old system up and running that I already paid R75K for in 2014, and have had to prod and poke at every step.

 

Between installers, and Government / CoCT one really has to consider whether the entire thing is actually worth all the effort.  The planet be damned.

35 minutes ago, IdlePhaedrus said:

The planet be damned

Kinda reminds me of how Hitchhikers's Guide to the Galaxy ends. With the official paperwork finally completed.

2 hours ago, IdlePhaedrus said:

Between installers, and Government / CoCT one really has to consider whether the entire thing is actually worth all the effort.  The planet be damned.

Mine was a breeze I must admit.

3 hours ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

Mine was a breeze I must admit.

Sometimes the Vogon's can be quite efficient at achieving their goals. Sometimes it takes a while. But in the end, they blow up the planet in all possible universes.

11 hours ago, plonkster said:

Sometimes the Vogon's can be quite efficient at achieving their goals.

Till they meet the Borg yes?

7 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

Till they meet the Borg yes?

Nice try... but if you really want to offend absolutely everyone at the same time, try one of these...

On 2019/09/02 at 1:08 PM, IdlePhaedrus said:

Still no access to the upload data

Hi @IdlePhaedrus, what is the latest on the data? I have full access, system got commissioned on Tuesday and is running. Still have to get the Engineer Sign-off. But my engineer is being difficult and lazy, saying he wants the CoC first. Damn strict engineers! (I am that engineer, just waiting for my CoC to be issued).

My problem is that on m.ginlong.com where the data is uploaded I have the option for Grid Usage, but for some reason the Grid Usage is always the same as the Inverter Output. (On the website that is). So does anyone have any advice here? The online monitoring for Solis is very rudimental. GoodWE and SMA is next level compared to Solis.

What seems to be the problem on seeing the data? Mine was straight forward to get online, only problem was the wrong website given (they moved to the m.ginlong.com as opposed to the other one given in manuals).

 

Hi @Rautenk , unfortunately the problems were manifold.  But essentially this is what happened as far as I understand it:

1. System was commissioned, but installer was still using their own v1 account at Ginlong (web addresses in the old manuals).  Don't know whether they had an installer account or a user account (they are different).
2. From their laptop the wireless stick was associated with their account based on the serial number, but the installer couldn't get the thing to upload data across my wifi.  He was in a hurry by that time, and though I did some double checking on my own wireless setup and it started working shortly after he left, I suspect the data would have started flowing regardless of what I did.
3. I couldn't access the data with my own account on the new v2 m.ginlong.com site because the stick's serial number was already associated with the installer account on the v1 platform.
4. The data sharing issue was passed onto another body at the installer company and stalled.
5. The meter trip happened Saturday and I switched the solar off until Monday when "the accusation" happened.
6. On Wednesday afternoon I decided to phone the new responsible body who by the late afternoon had migrated their data from v1 to v2 on the Ginlong platform, and managed to share the plant with my user account from their installer account.  If you are interested, installers use pv.ginlong.com.  They also have a different mobile app.
7. All previous daily data for my plant was lost, so I have no idea what was happening on Saturday when the trip happened.  I have no idea if it is still available in the installer account, but doubt it.

As you correctly point out the data on the client monitoring site is very basic, so it would have been impossible to debug the trip problem with it anyway.  Nor is it sufficient to debug a possible over / underfeed issue.  Also there is no export facility on the web user account to get the raw data uploaded that I have found so far, so if the trip happens again I still probably won't be able to debug issues.

I don't know if the installer account has more granular access to the data, I haven't gotten that far yet and things are a bit frosty between us at the moment.

So, data and other issues are ongoing.

For others who install one of these units, my advice is, SETUP AND ASSOCIATE THE STICK / PLANT WITH YOUR OWN ACCOUNT and share it with the installer via the mobile app afterwards (this can only be done with the app, not on the web site as far as I can tell).

Alternatively, don't do the monitoring with the Solis platform at all, spend a bit of additional dosh and get something like this.  It will be far more helpful in the long run.

I had some conversation with GInlong on this issue.

 

It seems the "Grid" Value that is provided in the monitoring website is actually the AC output of the inverter, where as the AC output is the DC value * efficiency! Thus one cannot see your total power usage on the website. There is also no way to look at the CT Clamp values in real time, thus no way to estimate own usage  Really bad website.

 

However! You CAN download 5 minute data intervals from the website which is useful:

When you logged in, select "devices" and click on your inverter. a New tab should open.

Then on the graph top left there is an export function which will export EVERYTHING (not just selected parameters). @IdlePhaedrusthis might assist you, unfortunately the loss of data from Saturday is unfortunate.

The combination of low load, high generation or change in load during high generation will cause an instantaneous current EXPORT onto the grid. However, the inverter should react fast enough to prevent the export from tripping your meter... You can always be brave and test this theory and report back...

I like that PI meter... its not that expensive if you compare to the OWL meters out there (which are inaccurate at best of times).

 

 

1 hour ago, Rautenk said:

You can always be brave and test this theory and report back

Next week the installer is going to complete the installation, including possibly updating the inverter firmware/software, checking all settings and checking db board installation.  I will definitely do some testing after this has happened and report back.  Am not sure if it is worth doing until that has happened.

1 hour ago, Rautenk said:

will export EVERYTHING

Thank you very much, that may prove to be very useful going forward.

This might be of interest to those who might like to setup their own data portal for the Solis using something like OpenHab or the emonPi or similar:

https://community.openhab.org/t/ginlong-solis-solar-inverter-monitoring/35386

It is quite old, and a bit of a hack, and the firmware on the wifi sticks now look different particularly for the connection protocol.

Ha, thanks again @Rautenk even though last week's data is not available on the main monitoring page it IS available in the inverter data as per your instructions:

I have exported the raw data and will see if there is something interesting there for Saturday.

Thought I'd give an update, eventhough not much has happened.

What has happened:

• The DC breaker has now been installed.
• The prepaid meter hasn't tripped again.
• It has been established, by the installer, at my request, that with the solar running, the house system's AC voltage increases by +- 5 volts and fluctuates.
• I have signed the supplemental and passed it to the installer.

What hasn't happened:

• Engineer site visit and signoff.
• Inverter firmware upgrade.

Regarding the voltage issue, one would expect, in a zero feedback scenario, the AC voltage difference between the inverter and the house would be lower.  Would anyone with a deeper understanding of this care to speculate?

Also, are there any Solis suppliers / installers out there who could indicate:

1. The current firmware version for the Solis 1P3k-4G or the 4G range in general?  I have not been able to establish this using Google-fu.
2. Whether the wifi stick is capable of performing the firmware upgrade? 

According to the installer the firmware can only be updated with a usb stick that plugs into the same port as the wifi stick, of which there are only four in the country, and none of them are currently in Cape Town.  They do they rounds apparently.

The wifi stick interface does appear to have the facility to upgrade the inverter, but that doesn't mean it actually works.

Anyway, the good news is, according to my prepaid meter, for the last two twenty four hour periods I have used just less than 3kwh from the grid per day.

Weather has been partly cloudy mostly, the pool is now running four to five hours a day (largest load), irrigation between half an hour and forty minutes (second largest load), PC on all day until about 11PM, TV (plasma) and surround sound (Denon) about four hours in the evenings (yes I watch way too much television).

 

 

Update:

So, last week Friday, after waiting about a month, the update device and software arrived with the installer (this was in anticipation of mitigating the over / under supply issue). 

After the update the Solis was bricked.  All the lights come on, including the alarm light, but there is no display or generation.

I phoned the supplier afterwards and it appears, so far, that the software supplied was for the hybrid range, not the 4g.

<some expletives go here>

Missing TTT on the forum.

I am thinking you need to get a Fixer to assist, you installer seems to be as competent as an Electrician found on the Builders Warehouse corner!

 

Yes, TTT's banter is missed. 

 

My Solis, on the other hand, is working like a dream

Edited October 15, 20196 yr by Rautenk