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Axpert MKS 3K Plus 24V


Stephan22

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Hello,

 

I have an Axpert MKS 3K Plus 24V.

 

My Problem is, that the Batteries doesn’t get full. The inverter shows all the day symbol for full Battery and no current to the Battery.

For testing, I have load my Battery with external device. The Battery shows an acid density of 1.25.

 

At the next morning I look at the inverter. the Inverter has switched to Main Current at the night. Now the Battery get loaded up to 70% (acid 1.20). The next day lower. The next day again lower. Up to 0% with acid 1.10.

 

Now I has read that there’s a float bug. Is it correct ? Is there an Firmware Update? I only find for 48v systems.

 

 

thanks

Edited by Stephan22
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17 hours ago, Stephan22 said:

My Problem is, that the Batteries doesn’t get full. The inverter shows all the day symbol for full Battery and no current to the Battery.

Have you tested what the inverter thinks the battery voltage is with a multimeter? Showing full all day when it's not sounds like a measurement problem.

17 hours ago, Stephan22 said:

Now I has read that there’s a float bug. Is it correct ?

Yes, all Axperts seem to come from the factory with a bug such that if a cloud comes along when the battery voltage is near the float setting, it takes that as a sign that the battery is full (won't take any more charge current).

17 hours ago, Stephan22 said:

Is there an Firmware Update? I only find for 48v systems.

The manufacturer doesn't seem to be aware of the problem, despite our attempts to tell them about it, so it never gets fixed. Weber and I have patched several 48 V firmwares to fix the bug, but we don't have 24 V models so we don't patch them.

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Hello,

 

thanks for your reply.

 

i have checked now the Voltage on the Batterie for the last 2 days.8CAD206A-5A42-4546-BE63-89A95D19B5E6.thumb.png.e0a1a7dd06223126d746f3488aa75046.png

Never more than 27V.

 

The Inverter voltage always shows the same voltage like my Battery Loading Device. It’s parallel connected to the batteries but without doing something. Only show voltage.


do you think I have an Problem with the bug or is it something else?

Is it possible to explain how to make the patch? I could patch it? I’m developer but don’t know this device or the way. Is it possible to do it?

 

thanks.

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1 hour ago, Stephan22 said:

i have checked now the Voltage on the Batterie for the last 2 days.

Never more than 27V.

Well, that's not going to charge your battery much. Do you have adequate solar panels? Are they performing OK (not dirty, no tripped breakers, etc)?

1 hour ago, Stephan22 said:

The Inverter voltage always shows the same voltage like my Battery Loading Device. It’s parallel connected to the batteries but without doing something. Only show voltage.

Ok, so that's likely not the problem.

1 hour ago, Stephan22 said:

do you think I have an Problem with the bug or is it something else?

It could well be the premature float bug. I assume you are using flooded lead acid defaults? I.e. setting 05 is FLd?

Near the middle of the day, check the charging LED. Does it go solid (stop flashing) before the battery is really fully charged? If so, the bug is affecting you.

1 hour ago, Stephan22 said:

Is it possible to explain how to make the patch? I could patch it? I’m developer but don’t know this device or the way. Is it possible to do it?

It's a pretty specialised process. Basically, you have to be as crazy as me, and there aren't many that measure up (in craziness) 🤪

The other problem is that there are few firmware update files for 24 V models, and the few that I have collected are quite old.

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Hello,

 

thanks again for your reply.

 

yes I think my Solar Panels are good. If I activate my pool pump, the PV Power goes up to 500W. If I activate my Climate Device, the PV Power goes up to 1.060W. (Max should be 1.030W from Solar Panels)

if I deactivate the devices, it will goes down to my load Output Power. And so on.

 

Yes, the LED stops flashing always. The PV Power is like my loads Output Power. If I activate in this time more load devices, the PV Power goes up. If I deactivate it, the pv power goes down.

 

don’t know if you can explain it. I can program in some languages. C, Java, PHP and so on. I use daily RS232 / 485. I’m an electrical (learned)

 

thanks

 

greetings Stephan

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Edit for the posting:

 

today he is flashing all the time. Not solid on. But always 27V not more. I need to say, that I have changed yesterday night the option from FLD to USER and Set manually 29.2V and 27.0V

both FLD and USER, loads wrong...

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20 hours ago, Stephan22 said:

today he is flashing all the time. Not solid on. But always 27V not more.

Well, if it's flashing all day, then 27 V is expected; that's the float voltage. That's what happens with the premature float bug: the charger goes to float way too early, and the battery stays in float all day, not charging much at all. But you say this is not usually the case:

23 hours ago, Stephan22 said:

the LED stops flashing always. The PV Power is like my loads Output Power.

When you say it stops flashing, do you mean it stays on, or stays off? It's almost like it's NOT charging, which would explain why the PV and load power levels are much the same; almost all of the PV power is going into the loads, almost none into the battery.

It would be good to confirm that 27 V according to the inverter really is close to 27 V at the battery, as measured by a trusted multimeter. If it's misreading the battery voltages, that could explain the problem.

20 hours ago, Stephan22 said:

I have changed yesterday night the option from FLD to USER and Set manually 29.2V and 27.0V

both FLD and USER, loads wrong...

I would have thought that the FLD setting would result in a bulk/CV/absorb voltage of 29.2 V, or very close to it. Are you sure that your battery modules can handle 29.2 V (average of 14.6 V)? Most true AGMs can handle this (despite the AGM setting resulting in 14.1 V for Axperts), but they do vary considerably. But perhaps you're just temporarily using the maximum available voltage to get something happening.

A thought: perhaps try setting the float voltage up higher than 27, but less than the absorb voltage (just so you can tell them apart). Even though the LED may usually be flashing, perhaps something crazy is going on such that it's using the float voltage setting anyway. That would explain the stubborn 27 V maximum.

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Hello,

 

the last days it’s always flashing. Some days it’s solid on (sometimes not flashing means solid ON).

I have a second device connected to the Batteries and this shows always the same voltage like the inverter.

I have talked yesterday with someone. He wrote that it could be possible, that I overcharge the batteries.

40amps to two 100ah batteries. I have changed the max current and give it a try. What do you think ?

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I have testet again something..

 

1.) Deactivate Solar Panels

2.) Activate my Load (500W)

3.) Wait until Battery goes to 23.0V and Inverter Switch to Utility

4.) Activate my Solar Panels

 

the Battery voltage goes up to 27.0V and stays there. LED is flashing in Step 4. at 27.0V it flashing 2 minutes, then Solid ON. 10 Minutes then flashing. Then Solid ON

 

hope that helps. I am testing actual again with more documentation for you

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Again hello! Now I have more documentation.. I hope this will helps

 

1.) Disconnect my Solar panels. And wait until Voltage goes down to 23.0V. Measurement:

IMG_4693.jpeg.ac2ae3f4769511d531fe1705f19edb9b.jpeg

IMG_4691.jpeg.de740d72cce5d1392e451e0acec198c1.jpeg

 

2.) Wait to see, which Voltage after stopping load from batteries

IMG_4694.jpeg.5a482311c5c338c64539236f13cec9fe.jpeg

IMG_4695.jpeg.31cd554a35e674e4576f74a9c415720c.jpeg

 

3.) Connect Solar Panels and start loading

IMG_4696.jpeg.9729f334d10e34caeea5906f1d519dc0.jpeg

IMG_4697.jpeg.24b62f08a51269a8af15069ad093e0b0.jpeg

 

 

Voltage goes up to 27.0V and stays there.

 

LED is flashing! If Voltage reaches 27.0V LED stop flashing.

 

I hope this is good to see if voltage problems or not.

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13 hours ago, Stephan22 said:

LED is flashing! If Voltage reaches 27.0V LED stop flashing.

Stopping as soon as it reaches the float voltage (or even about a quarter volt below it) is the premature float bug. It should continue charging and flashing the LED up to the voltage in setting 26 (bulk/CV, really the absorb voltage setting).

You can work around it by using the absorb time settings (if present), or the equalise settings (if present), or as a very last resort just increasing the float voltage. If you don't have the absorb time or equalise settings, you're probably better off using a cheap external MPPT. Perhaps split your PV between the internal and external MPPTs if you have enough panels. The internal MPPT is still good for getting the charge started, and for when the battery is full and you have large loads.

13 hours ago, Stephan22 said:

I hope this is good to see if voltage problems or not.

The inverter battery readings seem close enough; the inverter is reading a little high on charging and low on discharging, consistent with some voltage drop across cables and PCB tracks. I don't believe that's the problem now.

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12 hours ago, Stephan22 said:

do you think this device:

MPPSolar 5048GK

has the same float bug? 

Yes. Sadly, ALL the Axperts and PIPs (from MPPSolar) come with the premature float bug from the factory, no extra charge.

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Ok that’s very bad..

 

but what can we do? What is the alternative?

 

what can we buy for an price like this? Don’t find any devices

 

do you have an idea for me ?

 

because if I buy an device from SolarPower24 from Italy, it would have the same software I think. Then it’s on all products if they come from VoltronicPower :(

Edited by Stephan22
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Or you you think, the best way is to buy an MPPT-Charger and connect it parallel to the Axpert? Or are there an better way if i want to replace my Axpert MKS?

if yes, do you know if this devices are original from VoltronicPower:

https://www.solarpower24.it/?product=primo-mks-iii-pf1-5k-48-5000-watt-48-volt&lang=en
 

https://www.solarpower24.it/?product=primo-vm-iii-5000-48-5000-watt-48-volt&lang=en
 

because I don’t find an devices named MKS III on VoltronicPower.

 

if these devices Original, do you have an update for one of this device for solving the bug?

 

thanks

Edited by Stephan22
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On 2020/07/13 at 12:56 PM, Stephan22 said:

Or you you think, the best way is to buy an MPPT-Charger and connect it parallel to the Axpert?

It's certainly the best way if you can't use timed absorb or equalise settings.

Quote

Or are there an better way if i want to replace my Axpert MKS?

You could replace it with a model that has patched firmware, yes. So far, that's only 5 kVA models, and mostly with the low voltage (145 V max) solar charge controllers. There is recently a lightly patched firmware for the MKS II (450 V max SCC).

Quote

It's hard to say. They do look genuine to me, and they seem to have the full range of Voltronic models. However...

Quote

I don’t find an devices named MKS III on VoltronicPower.

It may be a new Voltronic model, that they have not yet put on their web site. It looks to be either a parallelable VM III, or a high voltage SCC King. Based on the cover shape, I'd guess the latter, although usually they'd advertise "zero transfer time" or the like it it was a King. [ Edit: I now believe it's the Axpert equivalent of the PIP-5048MGX. It's not unheard of that MPPSolar update their website before Voltronic Power do. ]

On 2020/07/13 at 12:56 PM, Stephan22 said:

if these devices Original, do you have an update for one of this device for solving the bug?

No. Firmware patches for the high voltage SCC models are rare, because my partner-in-patching (PIP?) Weber doesn't want to support them.

This model: https://www.solarpower24.it/?product=primo-mks-ii-pf1-5k-48-5000-watt-48-volt&lang=en there is lightly patched firmware for. It comes without the benefit of Weber's throughness or his methodical patience. Unfortunately this model appears to be out of stock at present.

Edited by Coulomb
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Okay, it Sounds to me, that there are no Perfect solution for me available now.

 

the best would be an device with an high PV Voltage input range, because I have long cables. But if there isn’t a update for a newer device than it’s useless. Don’t need an high PV Voltage Input if it doesn’t work correctly...

 

With an lower PV Voltage I put many money but don’t have an really good new feature. For this money I can get something better at this moment.

 

its hard. My actual favorite is this one:

https://www.solarpower24.it/?product=primo-mks-iii-pf1-5k-48-5000-watt-48-volt&lang=en
 

I have asked them for the Manufacturer. If it is VoltronicPower and it’s really a new one, then I take this one. There’s the best chance, that the bug has gone in the newest devices.

If the Bug still exists, I still have an parallel possible device with high PV Input (if they fix them in feature). That would be good!

 

Today I have ordered an

EPEVER 5420AN for 199€

 

This can handle 24V for the actual device. And later it can be handle 48V for the newer one. And the PV Input is 200V. The manual said 180V.
 

If the newer device has still the bug, I think I can use the Epever for loading.

 

thanks for your answers 🙂

Edited by Stephan22
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I have the Axpert Mks 3kva and even when charging with utility, it enters float early and remains there. Usually around 88% from my reading of my bmv. As soon as it gets to around 27.4v it enters float. I increased the float voltage to 28.8v for tubular batteries. And still the light stop flashing around same 27.4v although it will steadily increase the voltage to set 28.8v. So that's my work around for as I only get utility for 2 hours at night and charge with external mppt during the day

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Hello Coulomb,

 

Really hard to know what to do :-D.

 

I don't know if SolarPower24 has VoltronicPower devices or clones...

what is your recommendation to definitely get a VoltronicPower device that is delivered within the EU?

 

 

THANKS

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On 2020/07/13 at 2:55 PM, Coulomb said:

It may be a new Voltronic model, that they have not yet put on their web site.

I now believe it's the Axpert equivalent of the PIP-5048MGX. It's not unheard of that MPPSolar update their website before Voltronic Power do.

I'm guessing that Voltronic Power will call the new model the Axpert MKS III, obsoleting the Axpert MKS II (but not the Axpert MKS or its 64 V variant).

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9 hours ago, Stephan22 said:

I don't know if SolarPower24 has VoltronicPower devices or clones...

I'm now 95% sure that these are genuine.

9 hours ago, Stephan22 said:

what is your recommendation to definitely get a VoltronicPower device that is delivered within the EU?

I don't understand your question. Are you asking whether to purchase a genuine Voltronic Power model versus some other brand, or if settled on a VP model, should you get one that is delivered from a reseller inside the EU (where I presume you live) ?

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Hello,

sorry, English are not my main language.
 

I wanted to ask if you could give me a recommendation on where to shop. Whether you know a shop that delivers from Europe at a good price. But so that I get a 100% VoltronicPower device and not a copy.

Don’t like to buy now from an Shop and get an copy.

thanks

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19 hours ago, Stephan22 said:

Whether you know a shop that delivers from Europe at a good price.

I'm in Australia, so I have no clue about shopping in Europe, sorry.

If you buy through Ebay using seller maximum_solar, then you know you'll be getting genuine Voltronic Power units. They will be branded MPPSolar, possibly the first and largest reseller of VP inverter-chargers. Certainly, their web pages seem to update the fastest, even faster than Voltronic Power themselves.

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