Igubu

Perhaps it was this link? http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-06-29/-tesla-solar-wants-to-be-the-apple-store-for-electricity I reckon wait for 29th of this month when the gigafactory opens - apparently new tesla battery models, lowered pricing etc

Just to mention as well - the "newer" version of the Infinisolar (Called Infisisolar V) also supports parallel for the 3 highest models: http://www.voltronicpower.com/oCart2/index.php?route=product/product&path=24&product_id=172 Can't seem to find pricing local, perhaps somebody knows if they are going to be available? It seems the 5KW+ is expensive because of a few unique features, (perhaps the amount of DC In?) but two of InfiniSolar V-4K-48 in Parallel would work perfect for me - if the price works of course.

@Mike Any tests yet around how far you can push the unit above the rated 5000W and for how long before it complains too much? I seem to remember from a while back you did a similar test with the Inifinit 3KW unit that was quite robust with spikes for a few minutes? Just trying to gauge if it's a worthwhile option - of course price isn't mentioned anywhere yet.. ballpark perhaps? Thanks!

Thanks for clarifying - I didn't mention it in the post - and there are a number of other things around inverters, efficiency, etc that also play a role that I haven't mentioned

Hi Bruce and welcome! Have a similar setup to JDP - also 2x Axperts, 250AH battery bank and 9x 300W panels (2.7kW) roughly the same ballpark of R120K - but this was about 6 months ago and I went through 2x installers Not the guys here like Mike etc - they are all top notch. I did add some bypass switches and other gear though. I found that the electrical work can add quite a lot to the bill - so depends if your current DB's etc are easy and "Ready" - or if a lot of wiring/time is required. My experience over the last 6 months have been great - I managed to cut the bill by approx 50% vs JDP's 90% -but I can explain why which is useful to know when starting down this road. It is but one part of your research though - there are many other factors around inverters etc - but the forum will answer that as you ask more questions. The Axperts do not have the functionality to feed back to the grid - which is great for prepaid - and makes them cheaper (otherwise you would have needed some form of " limiter") - but the downside is that it cannot combine power from AC (Eskom) and DC (PV and/or batteries) to supply load. Easy example: Lets say your load is 2000W, and your PV generates 1800W at that moment - the Axpert will use the 200W from your batteries and everything is great. If however it's early morning and your batteries have now been discharged to the set % - say 60% - you need to charge them up first before you can use them again - takes a few hours. Same scenario - you need 2000W but the PV again generates 1800W - you will be switched to Eskom for the full 1800W load until the PV generates enough, or your batteries are fully charged to be able to combine PV+Battery. The result is often a few hours use from Eskom when you are only a little short on PV and any power generated more than what is set to charge batteries are wasted. Now look at a smart inverter (the brands mentioned and a few more) - they can combine AC (Eskom) and DC (PV+Batteries) to supply total load. So in the above scenario only the 200W would be used from Eskom. The only solution really with Axperts are to "oversize" your PV so that you have more than enough PV to carry load and charge batteries at max amps as per battery spec (shortest time) - It also allows for enough power when winter starts and the sun's position/clouds reduce your PV output substantially. So in principle an oversized pv array is a good idea - it does mean spending more $ of course and assumed you have enough roof space to mount 18+ panels. Your other option is to oversize the battery bank - but don't think anyone would advise that. With regards to future proof - if battery tech/pricing comes down so that newer types of batteries become an option (Think Tesla etc - which are better designed to be charged quicker - as well as cycle deeper) - you would need an inverter that is intelligent enough to connect to such battery banks' BMS (Battery Management System) - which unfortunately the Axperts are not able to do - There are a few brands that are - some have been mentioned already. Comes down to cost and what you are trying to achieve. - Spend as little as possible to save as much of your monthly bill or rather save some and be covered for load shedding. You do pay a premium for the expensive brands - they are better kit though, are more future proof and of course have some other nice to haves like remote monitoring, etc. Other things that also play a role is your spikes in current usage - which is needed to determine the size of your inverter - most "average" houses tend to spike to around 5000W - 6000W - and that's assuming your have energy efficient things like solar heating, heatpumps, gas, led lighting etc..If not then there are a few other items you need to look at replacing first. Hope it helps!

@cvanzyl Did you play around with the wiring etc? Out of interest I'm running the same inverters (2x of) - and I have 9x 300W renesola's - so 2700W of PV and on an ideal day i sit around 2.3 - 2.4kW as well - which according to the installers etc is about right. My roof is also not the perfect pitch and faces NE - so also not ideal. I haven't heard of anybody here that gets the " full" advertised rate - inefficiencies, wire loss etc etc - all adds to what you eventually end up getting. Perhaps post in general around what most members get VS installed PV? Regards B

@Ian, Welcome! How about getting a "limiter" so that you can avoid feeding back? I haven't looked at the model manual yet, so not sure if it's possible to disable feedback to grid? (For the excess) From the bit of investigation I've done SSEG in Cape Town is a headache. So any workaround to avoid it, especially if you are planning to move in a year or three will be easier than to go through all that paperwork. With regards to the options listed - why not try and get rid of the German Platinum 7000 and go for something like the Infinisolar 10Kv - 3-phase? (Last I looked on the internet around R45K) - if is fully programmable and you can disable feedback to grid, so your problem will be solved with regards to SSEG. You also have 2x MPPT inputs so if you want to add more panels to the 2nd MPPTtracker? Just as a thought on "overkill for the farm" on the Inifi 10kWh - perhaps it might assist to "future proof" a little? I see you mention an off-grid retirement house - and from experience unless you are going to invest in new LifeP04 battery banks (at this point pricey - but who knows in 2 years time) - you will struggle to run off batteries (AGM/Gel type) and be able to charge them fully AND cycle/use them - with only 3kWh of panels. You will need at least the 6kWh of PV to be able to run/cycle off say a 500ah bank (I'm using 2x banks of say 4x 250Ah - Total = 8 batteries) and being able to charge them up again during sunshine. One of the mayor advantages I see in going LifePO4 in future is that you can charge them up very quickly compared to AGM/Gel type - regardless of all the other advantages - so on a day when the sun in not perfect, but you might have 2 hours of great sunshine with lots of excess you will be able to recharge fully - which simply isn't possible with agm/gel type batteries.. but that is looking into the future There are some local guys already with the new tech - think it was mentioned before on the forum - but google around for " freedomwon" = still early days I think and nobody here has reviewed them yet - but might be worth a look in future. I'm sure you know them already - but here the link: http://www.voltronicpower.com/oCart2/index.php?route=product/product&path=24&product_id=141 There are number of local re-sellers. With regards to the 60kWh per day - I would imagine that was over the winter months with some underfloor heating? (A colleague ran 120kWh/day with his floors on!) - in summer that might come down to around 40? - it does affect the sizing of PV a lot - I also installed in winter - but over a full year the it all levels out Hope it helps! Butha

@jdp As an example: Lets say your are installing 300W Renesola Panels (just using them as an example from the internet) Their specs are: Max power current: 8.2A Open circuit voltage( Voc): 44.8 These vary a little between brands and size of panel.. The 5KVa specs are: Max PV Array power: 3000W - so max of 10x 300W panels, or perhaps 12x 250W panels Max PV array Open circuit voltage: 145 VDC: so if you look at the spec above (44.8V) you can max add 3x of these panels in series - will get you to 134.4V - within the limits. Max solar charge current: 60A - again if you use the panels above - they are 8.2A - in series of course it stays static while the V gets multiplied - so a single string of 3x panels will be 8.2A - and adding 3x of these strings in parallel will take the total Amps to 24.6A - so well within the 60A max. If you used 250W panels and ended up with 4x strings in parallel you would be higher on Amps - but my guess still within the 60A.. It's one of the differences I noticed while researching inverters with everything included (chargers etc) VS a separate battery charger/charge controller - some allow a much higher input V - but may be some older tech type panels ran much higher V.. Hope it makes sense! B

You actually received a reply from them? First time i've heard anybody receive feedback ... The manual has some pictures around connecting additional units - so yes 100% correct - same battery bank connected to both - so another set of cables - my 2nd unit is not in yet so cannot send any pictures.. I searched for the parallel kit manual online - but it's not there - If I find it I will post a link - it explains the parallel install options. Found a link!: http://www.mppsolar.com/v3/catalogs/PIP-HS_MS%20Parallel%20Guide.pdf The manual however doesn't say that the load is split between them - but I think it's good news - less load on each - which I suppose is good for the electronics. Questions I had around multiple or single PV is answered in the manual - seems both options are possible - either just PV on one - or PV on both, but batteries need to be connected to both. If you have an email address that replied to you from Voltronic - please send it on! I tried the usual ones but could never get any reply - also tried the 2x main local distributors (Rectron & Mustek) and they had no clue... B

Had a quick look - it's exactly the same software - the most use I found with it was that you can tweak some of the menu settings without the annoying sound when pressing the actual buttons - I wish you could disable it Thanks for the info.

Thanks! It seems if the 3kW wont be enough one would have to add a 2nd and selectively power circuits? It is a nice feature of the cheaper model to parallel it I must say. Or open the wallet and start looking at SMA/Imeon/Solax B

Can you also parallel the Infini units together? Are there better software - for example can you use the software from the www.voltronicpower.com site - viewpower and mppttracker? The Axpert only works with "watchpower" - a carbon copy of the viewpower, but very limited... B

Good Morning! The 4000W is the max that can run through the inverter - regardless of power source. If you look at the manual it says it can " spike" to 10000 - but for a short time only - but it's not clear exactly for how long. From experience (last 3 weeks) what happens is the buzzer/alarm goes off, and you can set it to either restart or not - think the default is not to. I've been monitoring and on the display it seems you can push it to around 4.1kW before the alarms screams - so a little bit of leeway. The only way around it is to connect a 2nd unit using the supplied parallel kit - just keep in mind your battery bank will have to be connected to the 2nd slave unit as well and you will require breakers/surge protectors - so another set essentially (with the wiring that needs to go with it) - breakers/boxes/battery cables I'll give an example below of what appliances I use so that you can judge below. A quick list of what I needed for such an install of 2x inverters: First I wanted a manual bypass in case something went wrong with the system so that I can switch back to eskom only - this required some extra space (2x dual pole breakers). Secondly I'm running the whole house - not only individual circuits - which means you need energy efficient appliances like a heat pump (1.2kW) - LED's etc - "normal" 3Kw geysers and kettles is a no no unless you have 2x inverters and don't mind using from eskom as well. Just a small sidenote to keep in mind: the Axpert is not a "true hybrid" in the sense where it can use power from all sources combined at the same time. If the sun is shining and your PV is generating say 2kW of power and you switch on say the coffee machine of 1kW - it will "draw/combine" from the battery bank to make up the 3kW - if the batteries are charged of course. If there isn't enough sunshine or batteries it will switch completely to Eskom (AC source/Bypass) - it's important to know as often you might be "just under" what is required but with these units it can't just draw the difference from AC - it switches back to AC 100%. The more expensive brands (generally the ones that allow feed back to the grid) allow you to combine all three sources - which is of course more cost effective as you might be a small amount short only (200W) which will then be used from Eskom combined with whatever the PV and batteries can give you. Requirements: For the AC side you should be able to fit everything needed for a manual bypass and 2x inverters in a 16-way box. (google Hager) For the DC side (Batteries and PV inputs) either another 16-way or 2x smaller 8-way boxes. I've been managing the current setup with a single 5kva axpert - but will be adding the 2nd one in about a months time - especially during winter - it's very easy to get to 4000w. Here a list of things I use - use it to determine what you can switch on at the same time to stay under 4kW. My heavy users: Heatpump (ITS 4.7Kw) - 1.2kW SMEG 900 Gas/Electric oven - if you run it with "thermo fan" it's already over 4kW - it's around 4.2kW while heating up - so the only way to use the oven is to get it onto temperature using element only and once at temp switch to fan mode - but honestly using the oven is only possible with nothing else on at the same time (except fridges etc of course which adds a base load of around 250W) Sharp Convention Oven/Microwave - around 2kW - a more practical option than using the oven for "baking/grilling" - but of course no leg of lamb as it's not big enough Underfloor heating - around 1kW per bathroom if you use it - Mine's off at the moment Heated Towel rails - (Bathroom Butler) - I was very surprised - but they use ONLY 40W! - so no problem leaving them on to keep the towels crispy Wall Heater Panels - 500W - Econoheat - off at the moment Dishwasher (older AEG model) - about 1.2kW while heating up water Small little espresso machine (Breville) - was a surprise but while heating water it uses around 1.2kW - a lot for a very small appliance but there it is. The rest are all pc's, routers, some AV equipment in a cinema room, LED's, fridges (1x french door, 1x wine) small chest freezer - which are not big users at all. Pool pump for a small splash pool is a Badu Ecotouch 3 - on "medium speed" uses 500w. Same goes for tumble dryer - new "A+" rated unit - uses very little. Hope it gives you an idea! My advice is add 2x units from the start if you are planning to run the whole house. If you are ever considering feeding back - which largely depends on where you live ito the process - or want the ability to draw from all sources combined you will have to look at a more expensive model or brand. Axpert do make a model called Inifisolar (Same company - www.voltronicpower.com) - but they are slightly smaller - rated at 3kW i think - and last time I checked they were roughly R4000 more than the MKS 5kV. Think Mike from this forum used it for a while and was quite impressed. If you want bells and whistles like data loaded into the cloud and access with a phone app - you need to spend substantially more. Not sure if you have purchased yet - or where you are located but I'm happy to share who I used for product that gave excellent service if you are interested. B

Hi B The older units came with RS 232 and RJ45 connectors to communicate. My inverter is a June 2015 build ( and I received it in June - that is how fast they are getting them into the country) and it has a USB port. The connection is Plug and Play. The software only starts working when the unit is fired up and it only reports on the SCC once that has fired up for the first time. I found this immensely frustrating whilst I was waiting to complete my install. You can interrogate the unit directly by simulating a COM port, but in WIN 8 it is beyond my IT capabilities. The protocol for direct communication via COM port is HS_MS_MSX_RS232_Protocol_20140822_after_current_upgrade.pdf and instructions of how to communicate directly can be found in this thread http://forums.aeva.asn.au/forums/pip4048ms-inverter_topic4332.html One thing that you can access whilst the unit is off is the heatsink temperature. Otherwise it just returns a whole lot of zeros. It is amazing that heatsink temp never made it into the WatchPower software and they should have logged production like the Affini does. When you get your unit running leave the battery cuff-off voltage at 42V (default) or 21 V (for 24 V systems). Changing this setting screws with the SOC (and perhaps charging) and the maximum is only 48V which is too low in my opinion anyway. Hope that helps. Chris Thanks Chris. I eventually after removing all the software and drivers got watchpower going - usb and serial both work - and as I half expected the software is not exactly great. If you like reading excel files you can get a bit of data from it - but no pretty graphs/internet access/cloud upload here... Also PV generation in V and I'm a bit lazy to convert from Watt and graph myself. I guess is you get what you pay for Suppose that is the other 200% of the (way more) expensive brands - software/reporting I might give a longer review soon of my experience with the Axpert after a month of so - watch this space. B

Hi Jaco, SupoerDIY is spot on - I have the same unit and connected 9x 300W renesola panels - 3x strings of 3 panels each. So 3 panels in Serie as a "String" and 3x "strings" in parallel. My The panels have different ratings around V and Amps etc - so you need to do a bit of homework on which panels etc. Also perhaps worth noting - as you are starting out with this - this Axpert only has 1 input for PV - so your strings of panels need to face the same directio ito sunshine. If you have half of them for the morning with the other half in the shade your efficiencies will be low. Hope it makes sense. When starting out is seems rather confusing - "min/max/startup volts" etc.. but ask around here - part of being able to share. B

Hi, Removed my original post - Found that ONLY the watchpower on the supplied CD will work - none of the software on www.voltronicpower.com will work! Now just to get the serial over ethernet via wifi working... B

Yep, 100% correct - I'm referring to the cheap energy meter. Edited the post.

HI Mart-Marie Dankie vir die info - sal maar antwoord vir almal - dalk chip iemand ook nog in. I"m about to install a similar sized system: MKS 5K, 9x 300W panels and 4x 250Ah batteries. The max current the unit can handle is 4000W (Think it can spike to 10000W - but not sure for how long) - I'm also putting the "whole house" on it - and the reseller suggested I might be over that limit at times. I confirmed this by running an "energy monitor" for a while (the Ellies one that Builders sell) - My average usage is well within the range - around 1.5kWh during peek times - but there are some instances where I spike over the 4000W - sometimes 5000W - even as high as 8000W (Think we were testing so switched everything on!). According to the reseller when you exceed the 4000W you will hear an alarm, and the unit will eventually trip. The easy fix is adding another unit in parallel - which will double the load it can take to 8000W - more than enough for my usage. What I think might be happening is that your draw exceeds what the panels and batteries combined can supply (if the settings are configure that way - to combine PV + batteries) and then switches over to Eskom - this might be for a short few minutes only - which gets you to the R5 /day You should however see usage on the meter - stupid question but is it clamped on the input - between eskom and inverter or perhaps not measuring at the correct place? Adding the 2nd unit also allows for adding more panels - perhaps to add a bit more power when the sun shines. Which batteries are you using and to what sort of levels are you discharging? It would be the Voltage for batteries - between 42V and 48V I think.. B

Hi Jakes, Have a good idea of the Company - but for any chance of getting something back I think it would be better to keep the names out of here... With regards to starting again - Mike is definitely a sure bet on here - if you are in a hurry I can recommend some guys as well who were mentioned on here a few times - more for if you want to purchase components as you go. Let me know and I'll gladly supply you want info I have. B

Hi Hagger Just went through this myself. You are correct - the infini is "true" hybrid as it can use from any source combined AC(grid) and DC (pv panels/batteries) The axpert doesn't - it can combine pv and batteries but if the load is above its rating (4000w for the MKS 5K) if will switch to eskom. In my experience there are other questions that made me go for the axpert rather. It depends on how you plan to install - ie - run the whole house off/via it, or are you going split circuits only (lightS perhaps etc) - reason is the total draw you can run trough the inverter before it trips. The inifiis smaller - think the max load is 3000w? That's less than say a smeg oven with the grill on (4100w max) - kettles are around 2000w, dishwashers more etc etc... Option one of everything is easier and less electrical - options two is more electrical and bigger seperate DB bord etc - and as your system grows you end up having to re-wire more often. I went option 1 - so all In - and I'll try manage the simultaneous loads to stay under the 4000w (it does allow "spiking" - but have not tested how much or how long) - if it doesn't work smooth all I need is another axpert in parallel - doubles my load to 8000w - which is more than enough. It also offers 2 other advantages : I always have a backup inverter on hand should something break - and it allows me to add another 3000w of panels for future proof. My install is probably going live in a week or two - I'll post some details - but you are welcome so email me and I'll give you my number and I'll share my experience and what I've picked up. [email protected]