For some years, I used other local forums to educate myself and discuss power-related stuff. I have some experience with alternative energy: had a 60-tube water heating system in a previous house, and built my own small loadshedding "box" to keep the lights/TV and internet on back when that was a thing.

Now I'm looking to make a dent in the monthly bill with some solar, but keeping it cheap upfront and trying to get max payback in the least time ... then the savings can pay for the next step.

I am proudly a cheapskate, and I roll my eyes at the idea that "more expensive is always better"

12 hours ago, Inevitability said:

I am proudly a cheapskate, and I roll my eyes at the idea that "more expensive is always better"

Not sure if you are looking for leads.

My 1st choice for a medium size system would be the Deye 6kW off grid inverter that can operate from 125V being 3 panels and can accept up to 12kW in PV.

I'm trying to get my geyser onto solar using a no-inverter-no-battery solution (Elon Smart). I posted a thread here :
https://powerforum.co.za/topic/34448-kwikot-elon-smart-please-check-my-work/

22 minutes ago, Inevitability said:

I'm trying to get my geyser onto solar using a no-inverter-no-battery solution (Elon Smart). I posted a thread here :
https://powerforum.co.za/topic/34448-kwikot-elon-smart-please-check-my-work/

After reading your posts, and understanding your approach (and limited budget), I think that it's worthwhile to think about the ultimate end-state as well as "systems thinking" in your visioning.

First-off: Good on you for focusing on the biggest culprit, and the area where the most possible gains can be realised.

Secondly, be mindful that you don't lose your peripheral vision in the process. People with limited budgets can rarely, if ever, create their dream system in one big bang. Each component is one building block of the bigger system, like a grain of sand in the mortar, the mortar holding one brick to another, a brick in a wall of bricks, a wall in a room, a room in a house, and a house in a home. Each component should be reusable. Even wealthier people make this mistake, and those that aren't as wealthy are prone to do so because of "sticker shock", or they limit their big-picture thinking because they are either 1) unable to prioritise their spending, or are 2) unable to see how the gradual spending / investment of smaller amounts eventually adds up to total independence from the Socialist Eskom / municipality. 6 years ago this wasn't my own goal, but in January the greedy socialist municipality forced me to choose it, at very little cost to myself because the foundation was solid.

Today you are solving one problem, but tomorrow will bring another, and so your solution needs to be extensible and not just a "point" or standalone solution. A parallel can be drawn to those that purchase Mecer trolleys to "keep the TV on" during loadshedding. It was a great solution at the time, for short periods of outage, but the downsides were that it was clunky, required a place to stay and trip-me-over extension leads, emitted explosive hydrogen gases, produced motor-killing square waves and was subject to the shallow cycles and maintenance requirements of lead-acid batteries. Woe betide anyone who had a surge-protector after the inverter, or who had plugged them into wall sockets when the power returned. When load-shedding intensified, some people simply bought more of them, so we found households with two or three of them. Those who were smart enough to realise that Eskom's inability to keep the lights on, as well as their constant billion rand bail-outs and price increases was endemic to Socialist agenda, went for solutions earlier on that were more extensible and could be upgraded without risk of the big BOOM!

Granted that point solutions have their place: a 10,000mAh power bank is useful and portable, and can be repurposed in hundreds of different ways, but it isn't a power or money saver.

Many who have had solar-powered geysers before installing a full-blown integrated solar system argue that in hindsight, precious North-facing roof space used by the solar geyser heating system would be better served if they could replace it with traditional solar panels, purely because the electricity generated could be redeployed to either charge batteries or service other loads

Someone who seems to have achieved his clear objectives (off-grid!) in record time, and very limited budget is @Denns in his post https://powerforum.co.za/topic/34183-exciting-long-term-review-new-hubble-energy-am16-am5-in-a-real-micro-grid-setup/#findComment-230500

You can bet that he didn't arrive at it all in one month though, so I leave it to him to expand on his journey and budget, which I am sure that you will find to be inspirational.

Edited August 8Aug 8 by Yellow Measure

5 hours ago, Yellow Measure said:

After reading your posts, and understanding your approach (and limited budget), I think that it's worthwhile to think about the ultimate end-state as well as "systems thinking" in your visioning.

First-off: Good on you for focusing on the biggest culprit, and the area where the most possible gains can be realised.

Secondly, be mindful that you don't lose your peripheral vision in the process. People with limited budgets can rarely, if ever, create their dream system in one big bang. Each component is one building block of the bigger system, like a grain of sand in the mortar, the mortar holding one brick to another, a brick in a wall of bricks, a wall in a room, a room in a house, and a house in a home. Each component should be reusable. Even wealthier people make this mistake, and those that aren't as wealthy are prone to do so because of "sticker shock", or they limit their big-picture thinking because they are either 1) unable to prioritise their spending, or are 2) unable to see how the gradual spending / investment of smaller amounts eventually adds up to total independence from the Socialist Eskom / municipality. 6 years ago this wasn't my own goal, but in January the greedy socialist municipality forced me to choose it, at very little cost to myself because the foundation was solid.

Today you are solving one problem, but tomorrow will bring another, and so your solution needs to be extensible and not just a "point" or standalone solution. A parallel can be drawn to those that purchase Mecer trolleys to "keep the TV on" during loadshedding. It was a great solution at the time, for short periods of outage, but the downsides were that it was clunky, required a place to stay and trip-me-over extension leads, emitted explosive hydrogen gases, produced motor-killing square waves and was subject to the shallow cycles and maintenance requirements of lead-acid batteries. Woe betide anyone who had a surge-protector after the inverter, or who had plugged them into wall sockets when the power returned. When load-shedding intensified, some people simply bought more of them, so we found households with two or three of them. Those who were smart enough to realise that Eskom's inability to keep the lights on, as well as their constant billion rand bail-outs and price increases was endemic to Socialist agenda, went for solutions earlier on that were more extensible and could be upgraded without risk of the big BOOM!

Granted that point solutions have their place: a 10,000mAh power bank is useful and portable, and can be repurposed in hundreds of different ways, but it isn't a power or money saver.

Many who have had solar-powered geysers before installing a full-blown integrated solar system argue that in hindsight, precious North-facing roof space used by the solar geyser heating system would be better served if they could replace it with traditional solar panels, purely because the electricity generated could be redeployed to either charge batteries or service other loads

Someone who seems to have achieved his clear objectives (off-grid!) in record time, and very limited budget is @Denns in his post https://powerforum.co.za/topic/34183-exciting-long-term-review-new-hubble-energy-am16-am5-in-a-real-micro-grid-setup/#findComment-230500

You can bet that he didn't arrive at it all in one month though, so I leave it to him to expand on his journey and budget, which I am sure that you will find to be inspirational.

Thanks for the mention @Yellow Measure. I did go about going off-grid on a budget and DIY installed my whole system. You are definitely right that it was not a one shot thing that I decided to do and it was a gradual progression that kept changing over months to get to where my system is now.

I started off in 2024 December with a 24V 2kW inverter and bought myself 4 GEL batteries and 2 650W panels. The goal was basic load shedding protection. This was the cheapest route I could go without breaking the bank. In 2 months, my goals changed pretty quickly to wanting to cut my bills. I sold the 2kW to a family member at half the price and got myself a MUST 3.6kW 24V inverter which costed R3300. So very cheap. I then expanded my battery bank to 10 GEL batteries (I didnt have the money to outright spend 12k or so at the time for a LFP 5kWh battery). Each battery was 1100 rand so I spent 11k over 4 months on the battery bank. It took me 3 months to get the GEL batteries. I was also buying 1 extra panel at a time of the 650W panels until I got to 7 Panels. With this my GEL batteries were being drained on average only about 30% a day and have protection on them to ensure you cant pull more than 3kW from the bank. GEL batteries are a bit sensitive in that regard.

By then almost the whole house except the Oven, Kitchen and Geyser was on Solar. I then took a leap of faith (after getting a bill of 16k from City Power) to put the whole house on my 3.6kW and GEL battery bank. I made sure to tell none of my colleagues at work as that would have brought me quite a bit of scorn for having all these big loads on a small inverter. I made it work though running one kitchen load at a time but the geyser was a big problem. Even with load scheduling etc the geyser had to run for about 4 hours a day which with a bit of clouds would start draining the GEL batteries. My kitchen has a dishwasher, washing machine, 2 Ovens, microwave, etc. And all that was on a 3.6kW and GEL batteries lol. I also have a pool and 2 fish pond pumps that run during the day.

I investigated how to deal with the Geyser and settled on the Geysertech PI2R controller. This was around August last year. I got it for 3100 rand. Requires no batteries and works off panels. Because my goals had changed to not using any power from City power I bought 4 340W panels. I added so many to ensure the water would be heated to temp 99% of the days which it does get to. Geyser is set to 70 degrees and it was enough for myself and my wife pretty much every day. She would bath in the tub at night and we had enough hot water still for morning showers. It has the advantage that it accepts AC also so my inverter was wired to it but I never used that functionality as the geyser is always hot. In winter the thermostat opens around 3pm. In summer around 1pm. Cloudy days it still has very good performance.

I then decided to get a Victron MPPT as I could not add another panel to the 3.6kW so In total I wound up with 8x650W panels to charge the GEL batteries and supply the house loads. I tested my system since August last year till around January and I never needed the grid. The only issue I had was overloading of the inverter in December last year as my wife and I where used to only running one high draw appliance in the kitchen but we had about 6 people in the house and they were not too familiar with house the inverter worked etc but after a week or so they adjusted. The hot water was fine during that period and we had no issues with batteries being overly drained or anything.

In February this year I got disconnected by City power after I applied to go off-grid. Around March I got a recommendation from the guys over at MBB that builders was selling all in one inverter and battery systems so I managed to scoop up a brand new 5kW Omnivolt inverter with a 5kWh battery for 9500 rand. I since reconfigured the house now to make the 5kW the main inverter and it has solar. My 3.6kW still has its GEL batteries and gets charged from the 5kW inverter between 9am and 3pm. My DB is split so the 5kW supplies the kitchen and lounge. The 3.6kW supplies all the 3 bedroom plugs (3 bed house) and lights.

I do not have a generator installed as the house is very efficient (lots of work to replace lights etc). My consumption is about 450kWh a month with a system that can supply double that so that is the main reason. So yes, with patience, and a budget you can reduce your bill. I averaged by the way about 750kWh to 1000kWh a month before I did all of this. We changed a lot of our habits to get the house to be what it is now. The cheapest installation is the one that supplies the least load. If you continue to use a lot of power then you cant do this for cheap.

My solar panels were from a chinese shop called SunMagic. Fivestar panels. They are built very well so no issues there. My batteries are Navasolar. Got them from Takealot for cheap. They are almost 2 years old but have their original capacity so far as I looked after them and have balancers etc. Now with the 5kW and 5kWh battery they are barely working and only being drained about 10% a day. I foresee them lasting about 6 years easily. So @Yellow Measure is right, Get your objectives clear from the start and be prepared to do what you need to do to get your targets met.

One last thing, solar had caused a lot of arguments in my marriage. My wife was quite resistant to a lot of what I was doing. She eventually so the light when I showed her that I dont have to pay the 1500 a month in fixed charges anymore (COJ Postpaid). And we have power 24/7. My system is going to be fully paid off next year in June. Average saving of 35000 rand a year. I went off grid with a 3.6kW inverter and GEL batteries. Where there is a will there is a way.

Edited August 8Aug 8 by Denns

And just to add, a lot of what I did is unnecessary in 2026.

Don't buy GEL, Lithium is actually cheaper now and lasts much longer.

Don't buy a cheap inverter like I did because brands like Solis and Luxpower are at most 1000 rand more than the Axpert clones and are NRS approved. NRS is required for grid connected inverters.

Solar has gotten so much cheaper now that the gap between "fancy" brand and "cheap" is very low now. So just do it right the first time. I wont buy a Deye or Sunsync in the future whenever I need to replace my inverters as I do think they are overpriced. But I would look at Solis and Luxpower because they go for around 7k. An equivalent inverter from Eco or Must is 5.5k. But you get more features on the Solis and Luxpower.

As for Geyser on inverter. I firmly believe don't add a geyser to any inverter less than 8kW. Also if you are grid connected then its also fine, you just pull from the grid when the clouds roll in. In my case I don't want to pull from batteries every time a cloud rolls over so that is why I used a Geysertech. 99% of the time the water is hot. The option to top up is there but I have never needed to.

Do I waste generation when the thermostat opens? Yes. But my batteries get full around 12 so I already waste generation on the main system as it is. In summer they are full around 10am. I overspecced for cloudy days and have no interest in making use of all the PV.

Edited August 8Aug 8 by Denns

Just for that story alone I'm so happy I joined this forum... And it's only day 3.

Thank you for sharing all of that.

I know I'm gonna be back to this page to re-read your journey many more times.

Quick takeaway for me on the geyser specifically: I see your journey led you to have the geyser running separately to the main system (using the PI2R). This is effectively what the Elon Smart does... Panels -> Elon -> Geyser

No inverter, no battery.

The one thing that's been keeping me awake at 23:10 is the question...

Am I wasting the R15k that took so long to save up, only to learn too late that there's a much better way to do this that everyone else already knows.

But your real-life journey proves that this setup can work well without needing a main inverter-battery system.

Thank you @Yellow Measure and @Scorp007 and especially @Denns for taking the time to reply to me.

Been thinking alot about all the info here in the past couple of days, and I have some follow up questions :

1) @Denns does your 450kWh total include the PI2R geyser heating?

2) I already have my stove on gas, so after I do my geyser on solar, I can put aside around R1500 per month for my next step in solar. My aim is to learn all I can about what's needed to make a big dent in the Eskom bill.

@Denns if you were to start from scratch to cover 450kWh/month, what specific components you would go for? (Example "Solis 5kW inverter"). And if you have any idea of pricing, that will be bonus info for me. There's so much stuff out there... Maybe I'm being a bit lazy but it feels like there's too many choices. Any info you can share from your experience will help me narrow things down a bit.

3) If I do my own rough maths, I end up with this:

Durban sun hours are way less than inland, so let's say I plan to cover 70% of my bill. In Durbs, that will be days with more than 3.5hrs of sunlight. That's OK with me ... 80/20 rule of thumb means I'm probably gonna spend too much money to cover for the other 30% of low-sun days.

450kWh/month is 15kWh per day. So 3.5 sun hours per day works out to 4.3kW of panels needed

Let's call that R15k + mounting costs

Luxpower 5kW inverter ... R7500

5kWh battery... R10k?

Cabling, isolation box, and all the other equipment needed... R7k?

That's already over R50k before even labour cost and I'm being optimistic with prices.

Now I'm keeping @Yellow Measure point in mind : I want to keep the big picture in mind and I don't wanna buy anything that won't get used later cos I can't afford a mistake like that. So I'm expecting that all the stuff above is almost non-negotiable.

But then it leaves me a bit lost ...

I don't know how I could use my R1500 per month savings to build towards the 450kWh solution without

a) taking on debt (not an option at all), or

b) saving up for 3 years before I can do a full installation

I know I have much more to learn and figure out, but my basic understanding is telling me there's no simple way to buy "pieces" every 3 or 4 months, for R5k per piece, and those end up stacking together to make the full solution, but all the while I still get some payback from each R5k I spend cos I'm installing each piece as I buy it.

Sorry... There's a question somewhere inside all of that spaghetti: How do I go from maths and calculations to a piece-by-piece solution where each piece can pay me back as I go. Obviously I'm not expecting an answer, but hopefully some thoughts and ideas cos I'm out of my depth here.

On 2026/08/10 at 7:37 PM, Inevitability said:

a piece-by-piece solution where each piece can pay me back as I go

Her is a plan:

1 Connect 4 solar panels to your geyser

2 Run a 5kW Deye in grid tie mode

3 Install smart switches and controllers

4 Add four more solar panels

5 Buy a Shoto 5kWh battery

6 Add 8 solar panels

7 Add one more 5kW Deye in parallel

8 Add 2 more 5kWh batteries

Repeat steps 6 to 8 until you have taken over the world.

When it comes to solar panels, being in Durban you should get a quote from ARTsolar - they manufacture in Pinetown and when I bought earlier in the year they were the cheapest option by a significant margin, especially because I could collect myself. Paid R8k for 6 x 600W panels.

As Frivan mentioned, grid-tied is your cheapest start. Either look for an inverter that can run without batteries, or another option is to try and find a second hand solis grid-tie only inverter. The big disadvantage with grid-tie only is they don't work if there is no Eskom grid, but loadshedding has been much better lately and is forecast to remain better, so it's worth the risk in my opinion.

I personally prefer having my geysers on my inverters (admittedly I have 10kw available) as it allows a lot of flexibility when weather is less than ideal. On good days, I heat the geysers extra, on bad days I rely on some extra heat from the day before and prioritize other loads. But there is definitely value in the simplicity of having your geyser on it's own system that you set and forget. The biggest thing is when making choices about what to buy now, is to think if these still have value in your future system, or is there enough value in them you can recover costs selling again later.

Edited August 12Aug 12 by JaseZA

Moved my question to the more relevant thread...

Edited August 12Aug 12 by -cK-

5 hours ago, frivan said:

2 Run a 5kW Deye in grid tie mode

1 hour ago, JaseZA said:

As Frivan mentioned, grid-tied is your cheapest start.

I must admit that anything "grid-tied" is a bit scary for me. Mostly because I know almost nothing about it, and because what little i have heard includes engaging with eThekwini municipality in some way (... please correct if I'm wrong).
So it's a bit like the Boogeyman ... scary dark figure lurking in the shadows of my ignorance that I think will jump out and destroy me.
For this reason, i have been trying to avoid the idea of anything grid-tied ... kicking that can down the road until i understand a lot more.

Edited August 12Aug 12 by Inevitability

On 2026/08/10 at 9:37 PM, Inevitability said:

Been thinking alot about all the info here in the past couple of days, and I have some follow up questions :

1) @Denns does your 450kWh total include the PI2R geyser heating?

2) I already have my stove on gas, so after I do my geyser on solar, I can put aside around R1500 per month for my next step in solar. My aim is to learn all I can about what's needed to make a big dent in the Eskom bill.

@Denns if you were to start from scratch to cover 450kWh/month, what specific components you would go for? (Example "Solis 5kW inverter"). And if you have any idea of pricing, that will be bonus info for me. There's so much stuff out there... Maybe I'm being a bit lazy but it feels like there's too many choices. Any info you can share from your experience will help me narrow things down a bit.

3) If I do my own rough maths, I end up with this:

Durban sun hours are way less than inland, so let's say I plan to cover 70% of my bill. In Durbs, that will be days with more than 3.5hrs of sunlight. That's OK with me ... 80/20 rule of thumb means I'm probably gonna spend too much money to cover for the other 30% of low-sun days.

450kWh/month is 15kWh per day. So 3.5 sun hours per day works out to 4.3kW of panels needed

Let's call that R15k + mounting costs

Luxpower 5kW inverter ... R7500

5kWh battery... R10k?

Cabling, isolation box, and all the other equipment needed... R7k?

That's already over R50k before even labour cost and I'm being optimistic with prices.

Now I'm keeping @Yellow Measure point in mind : I want to keep the big picture in mind and I don't wanna buy anything that won't get used later cos I can't afford a mistake like that. So I'm expecting that all the stuff above is almost non-negotiable.

But then it leaves me a bit lost ...

I don't know how I could use my R1500 per month savings to build towards the 450kWh solution without

a) taking on debt (not an option at all), or

b) saving up for 3 years before I can do a full installation

I know I have much more to learn and figure out, but my basic understanding is telling me there's no simple way to buy "pieces" every 3 or 4 months, for R5k per piece, and those end up stacking together to make the full solution, but all the while I still get some payback from each R5k I spend cos I'm installing each piece as I buy it.

Sorry... There's a question somewhere inside all of that spaghetti: How do I go from maths and calculations to a piece-by-piece solution where each piece can pay me back as I go. Obviously I'm not expecting an answer, but hopefully some thoughts and ideas cos I'm out of my depth here.

Oh I didnt see this.

450 includes the geyser yes. So my House uses about 250kWh which is on the 2 inverters and battery banks. The geyser averages 200kWh a month.

To cover 450kWh isnt hard to be honest. My personal take though is aim for at least a 8kW inverter, About 6kWp of panels (10x600W or 10x590) and 10kWh of battery. If the geyser is on your Elon then you can drop the panels for the house to 4kWp, a 6kW inverter with good passthrough capabilities (A Solis or Lux power) and still keep the 10kWh of battery.

I have seen solar ways sell packages like these for 50k or so . The 8kW systems typically go for 60k or so. Installation is typically around 15 to 25k. A quote a friend of mine sent recently was for 85k. It was a 8kW Deye inverter, 10kWh of batteries but can't remember the panels.

My entire offgrid installation was 85k. This included the 3.6kW inverter, 5kW inverter, 12kWh of GEL batteries, 5kWh of Lithium battery, 8x650W panels, 4x340W panels, the Geysertech. All the extras like cabling, breakers, DB etc is included. Along with replacement of lights etc.

5 hours ago, Inevitability said:

engaging with eThekwini municipality

Unless the inverter is disconnected from the municipality, or you only use a 48V charger, you will have to engage with the municipality... And probably you may have to register off grid inverters also.

On 2026/08/12 at 11:31 AM, Inevitability said:

I must admit that anything "grid-tied" is a bit scary for me. Mostly because I know almost nothing about it, and because what little i have heard includes engaging with eThekwini municipality in some way (... please correct if I'm wrong).

Grid-tied here means it doesn't have battery backup. Dealing with the municipality is in theory required for almost all inverter installations, although this is currently being litigated by OUTA.