Guest Sarel Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 (edited) It's a bit more complicated. That being said, let me start here. The Quattro is bi-directional. It can use the Fronius AC output to charge the batteries, use Utility to also charge them or a blend. Then the PV charger directly charges batteries, DC from the panels only changed to lower DC voltage to do so, so super efficient. The controller, Cerbo GX in my case, can co-ordinate between all 3 sources with Solar input always preferred according to my setup. Even if both the Quattro and Fronius are down, batteries will still be charged. The panels peak power is 12 510Wp. The 11.6kW is a realistic number after losses of about 7% to account for cables, fuses connector joints etc. The split is as follows for the panels: Fronius string 1 with 10 x 425Wp Canadian half cut cells. Fronius string 2 with 14 x 425Wp Canadian half cut cells. Victron PV charge controller (DC) with 6 x 385Wp JA Solar half cut cells in a 3Serial and 2 strings parallel. So about 22% on the PV charge controller and 78% on the Fronius. For the PV charge controller I get 1940W at peak out of 2310Wp so about 84% of potential yield under lab conditions. On the Fronius, I purposely over dimensioned the panels. The input is capable of 1000VDC per string for both controllers. And the Fronius is able to produce 8200 Watts, and does that from the 10.2kWp. Having more panel than really needed allows it to produce the max output over a longer period of time or when conditions are sub optimal. This was done to compensate for dirty panels, cloudy conditions etc. Lastly, my battery bank is 16kWh or more realistically 12.4kWh usable. On the best days the Victron PV charger generates over 14kWh so it can easily re-charge my current battery from 20% to full. On average, this can supply about 11kWh per day. But remember, we do not solely rely on it, the Fronius does the bulk of the charging. In this Micro grid, we need the Victron PV charger in case we have no Utility grid, the batteries are flat and the Quattro is not able to provide a grid and we do not have a generator. This will cause a deadlock in that the Fronius cannot start because the Quattro cannot start due to battery voltage to low. The Victron PV charger can start charging the batteries to power the Quattro and that will then start the Fronius when it sense the grid. Edited November 21, 2021 by Sarel Spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sarel Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 Some more data visualised. You can see the Fronius reaching its peak power and maintaining it as the flat top from 11:30 until 13:30. Also note the PV charge controller at 1945 W. And to the bottom right the battery SoC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluefronted Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 To clarify or to help my brain understand 1.The Fronius AC Input is supplied from one of the two Victron's AC Outputs 2. The Fronius AC Output is sent to Loads and is one of the Victron's AC Inputs to help charge the batteries and supply additional load or is one the MPPT outputs from the Fronius sent to the Batteries 3. The second Victron's AC Output goes only to Load Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sarel Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 1.The Fronius AC Input is supplied from one of the two Victron's AC Outputs nope, the Fronius only got DC panel inputs and only a single AC output. 2. The Fronius AC Output is sent to Loads and is one of the Victron's AC Inputs to help charge the batteries and supply additional load or is one the MPPT outputs from the Fronius sent to the Batteries. Nope again. Fronius AC ouput is on the Quattro AC output, so the 2 devices outputs are connected. You want this so the Fronius can operate even when the house main supply from the City or Eskom is dead. Normal Grid tie (Fronius) behaviour is to not provide AC output when the Utility grid is down. Fronius senses the grid availability from the Victron output and now use the Victron output so Fronius can keep on generating. The Victron can use the Fronius output on it's own output and reverse the current’s direction to be able to charge batteries while powering the loads. Quattro will blend power in both directions, or bi-directionally. 3. The second Victron's AC Output goes only to Load You have a choice here. On the Quattro we have 2 AC outputs. AC1 is always on or essential loads. (In my case my household is essential so all loads are on AC1). AC2 output are for non essential loads, should you wish, and this output always fails when the AC input fails, or put otherwise the loss of mains. So when City power or Eskom fails, AC output 2 always switches off until mains or Utility grid is re-established. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluefronted Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 "The Victron can use the Fronius output on it's own output and reverse the current’s direction to be able to charge batteries while powering the loads. Quattro will blend power in both directions, or bi-directionally." Wow !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluefronted Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 "The Victron can use the Fronius output on it's own output and reverse the current’s direction to be able to charge batteries while powering the loads. Quattro will blend power in both directions, or bi-directionally." Wow !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluefronted Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 "The Victron can use the Fronius output on it's own output and reverse the current’s direction to be able to charge batteries while powering the loads. Quattro will blend power in both directions, or bi-directionally." Wow !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sarel Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 Now that we have some data: I made the prediction as per the attached. See the results below that.... My system gives me 95.8% of predicted generation. And that on a non ideal month with lots of rain and cloud cover, as expected for October. 12.51kWp panels for about 7% losses gives 11.6kWp. My 3 MPPT strings and controllers are capable of delivering 10.2kW of power. The Fronius limits on 8.2Kw and the Victron limit on 1960W for my battery voltage for a total of 10.16kW from the 11.6kW usable. I regularly get 10.2kW delivered. See the month of October. This gives me an average, including rainy and cloudy days, of 53kWh per day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0012 Posted December 1, 2021 Share Posted December 1, 2021 What happened to Sarel, I was really enjoying this thread ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluefronted Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 Hi Sarel, Hope you doing well? Any updates ? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McGuywer Posted April 4, 2023 Share Posted April 4, 2023 Well I read the whole thread, also wondering what happened. Not great that he used a guest account. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P1000 Posted April 5, 2023 Share Posted April 5, 2023 23 hours ago, McGuywer said: Not great that he used a guest account. It only became a guest account later, when the posts stopped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McGuywer Posted April 5, 2023 Share Posted April 5, 2023 2 minutes ago, P1000 said: It only became a guest account later, when the posts stopped. Interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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