Bobster.

3 hours ago, evegunns said:

My solar system feeds back to the grid but I am concerned that my meter ( it’s a traditional type) is recording the units as usage as well. My electricity bill is still the same as before the solar was installed. I discovered this issue with a prepaid meter in my small cottage . I would appreciate any advice with this matter. Thanks 

You can't just feed back and expect things to work. Most meters won't cope with this very well. The ways in which they don't cope vary according to the make and model of the meter. You'll need to sign up for a reseller's tariff, and this will require either a new meter or a change to your existing meter.

Elsewhere on the forum you mentioned that you had had a pre-paid meter installed. Most pre-paid meters won't distinguish between power coming from the grid and power going TO the grid.

On 2024/04/24 at 2:29 PM, Eve Gunns said:

I have converted to solar for my house. So to avoid the monthly fees amounting to around R400, I applied to swop my eskom meter for a prepaid meter to use as a back up. It cost me just over R10000.00 for the prepaid meter.  It has finally been installed and now I am having endless problems to get this system to work. I'm wondering if anyone else has gone this route. I live in Dullstroom. Mpumalanga. Thank you.

Usually you have the actual meter, and a small unit that displays some information and has a keypad for entering the vouchers that you buy. The latter is usually referred to as a CIU (Customer Interface Unit).

In most, but not all, cases, the CIU communicates with the actual meter via the wiring in the house. And this all works as long as there is nothing but cable between the CIU and the meter. If your CIU is plugged into a socket that is backed up, then this is no longer the case. The CIU is plugged into a socket which has cables which are connected to all the circuitry inside the inverter. Now you don't have that simple, direct connection to the meter any more.

I used to have to go outside to the garage to use my current CIU. The garage is not backed up, and those wires still have an unbroken path to the meter. I got an electrician to add one plug socket that is inside the house but not backed up (IE bypasses the inverter an all it's circuitry).

So as a first test, I would plug the CIU into a socket that is not backed up and see if the behaviour changes.

We all get some relief from the City. Pen

8 hours ago, system32 said:

Types of rebates you may qualify for: 

• Property owners qualify for subsidy on their rates, refuse, sewer, water and electricity services;
• Non-property owners or non-account holders qualify for rebates on water and electricity services.

Really! Wow! Because if I rent, the City bills my landlord and he bills me. So how does the City control that? Of course he might pass concessions from the City on to me. On the other hand he may not. 

So I'm surprised to see them claiming that, and I'd bet there's a fair bit of red tape involved.

We (account holders) already get 6kl of water a month for free. My favourite game right now is trying to come in under that number each month. I did it in December and January, but then had to pay R26 for February. March... I'm on the knife edge. Depends on when they read the meter. April I should do it again.

1 hour ago, Sc00bs said:

@system32 Will see which political party actually has the spine to do this, is still a bit down the road and the way battery prices are coming down I may just go totally off-grid if they decide to implement it. 

The fixed fees have come up several times the last few years. The first time was when Mashaba was Mayor. The fixed fee was proposed at R200 a month. The City later said that the figure had been inserted into the budget after sign off.

It was proposed again during the lockdown, but immediately cancelled as part of the City's relief package.

1 hour ago, Sc00bs said:

I am currently using around R600 a month on prepaid, so it will increase my bill to R1100 a month. 

Indeed. But you're still better off than people on the conventional tariff. Doesn't mean you shouldn't fight it though.

1 hour ago, Sc00bs said:

The ROI for disconnecting from the grid totally and buying a few more batteries and just using a generator for any shortfall starts looking a lot more appealing. 

Batteries are forecast to fall by another 30% over the next 12 months so may make sense by the time they actually try to implement the Service & Capacity charges

Question: Would you buy a house that had no electricity connection?

I get the urge to go off grid. But it's expensive, and I'm not sure it renders the property more desirable when selling time comes. 

Whatever charges are settled on will become effective July 1st.
 

2 hours ago, Rou said:

That’s an excellent news @Bobster - if we do not have to change from Prepaid tariff to TOU or any other postpaid tariff!

Is that an official position of City Power for everybody or everyone needs to “fight” for its own tariff

I have no idea. When I completed the paperwork I did stipulate that I would not be selling back. So did they leave me on prepaid because I'm not selling back? Or is it an oversight? Or am I on a list of householders to convert to TOU?

I don't know. And I don't want to prod that hornets nest.

In the meantime CP have issued a press release saying that the figures that are being bandied about are coming from the DA, not from them. This seems to be a response to the %ages that DA put around, which are very difficult to tie back to what one will be paying. I don't think those figures are very helpful. (They do serve the purpose of getting voters riled, so job done.)

But the figures for the flat fees per meter do come from the City's own tariff proposals. It's worth emphasising that last word because City Power are saying that firstly they are listening to the people and taking on board what the people are saying, secondly because, CP now say, there is no NERSA approval of the proposed tariffs yet. Their position seems to be that there will some sort of flat fee per pre-paid meter, but not necessarily the R550 odd a month.

This may be a climb down, it may be nothing at all, or it may be that it was only a proposal and things may change before the final tariffs are published.

I'm cynical. When I hear stories about how petrol is going to go up R5 a liter, I tell myself that this is a deliberate leak, and that when the real figure turns out to be "only" R3.75 we will all fall down on our knees and give thanks.

2 hours ago, GreenFields said:

Even for people without PV panels on the roof, I like the notion of a low-price incentive to re-schedule power consumption to off-peak times.

Well, if you had just inverter and batteries, you could charge batteries in the evening/early morning, then dump the contents back into the grid during peak times and pocket the difference. 

IF there's an end to load-shedding. Load-shedding is why I have batteries.

2 hours ago, GreenFields said:

If I could have my way, anyone receiving free basic power would be on a TOU system to shift that consumption out of peak times, but I'm sure that'd be unpopular so it won't happen.

Well if it's free, why would they care?

Except that when you get the social relief package, you get 350 units per month on your meter. Then you start paying.

So maybe if they loaded a rand value (say equal to 350 off-peak time units), then that might modify behaviour. They could stretch the allowance by doing as much as possible in the evenings.

Interesting to see the pre-paid tariffs that folks are getting upset about (and which CP are reminding us are only PROPOSED at this time). The "low" category users will actually pay more per unit once they go past 500 units. The City is saying that if you are genuinely poor then you shouldn't consume a lot of electricity.

Good installers aren't just good with the electrical side of things. They build relationships with the companies whose gear they install. This is worth something when you have some puzzle you can't solve.

Somewhere on this forum there's a thread about how my inverter started behaving oddly (and undesirably) during high stages of load shedding. In short, when there was no grid and the sun was shining, it would draw just enough from the panels to service the load, but the battery wouldn't charge.

The inverter is a Goodwe. There is plenty of moaning (not just in SA) about Goodwe support. But I called my installer about this, and they very quickly got through to Goodwe and the firmware on my inverter was updated (over the internet, no need for a physical visit). Problem solved.

So a good installer who has built relationships and provides decent support (this was 4.5 years down the line, so I was impressed) does add value.

18 hours ago, Kalahari Meerkat said:

https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/24/04/22/2313206/california-is-grappling-with-a-growing-problem-too-much-solar

This is interesting. California are further down the PV path than we are, but, I think, with some differences. SAns will usually have batteries because we have to worry about load shedding. Anyway, we get some insights into what happens as solar installations increase. 

Absent load shedding, we could play the game of charging batteries on cheap time, discharging at peak, and pocketing the difference. Given tariffs that made this attractive, and the roll out of sufficiently capable meters. 

But, as noted, there are costs associated with maintaining and hardening a grid (I had to Google that one). This may be why Eskom and municipalities are adding (or proposing to add) flat fees to prepaid accounts. This is why there are flat fees (though maybe not why those fees are so high in Jhb). 

It may also explain the net consumer rule. That could be a bulwark against negative pricing, which is important if they want to attract IPPs (and they are). 

But mostly the rules of the game can change. The things that make reselling more attractive in COCT are time limited. In a year or so's time, Capetonians might find their deal is not so good, but this was implied in the small print from the word go. COCT can play it either way. If it's mission accomplished they drop the subsidy and the net consumer exemption. But they can drop either (or both) if it suits them.

Although it would hurt me, and although it hasn't happened, COJs requirement that PV installations be linked to a TOU tariff makes some sense. It could encourage people to discharge batteries at peak time - if the tariffs get a massage and load shedding ends. 

Didn't something similar happen in Australia? Too much electricity when they can't use it? 

45 minutes ago, system32 said:

CoJ make the process of being classified as “prepaid (low) indigent customer” difficult with a high barrier in that you need to own your own home.

Well I can't get the facts on that, but domestic City accounts are for homeowners. Tenants are at the mercy of landlords, though I believe they can't resell electricity (they can load the actual rent). It's hard for the people who pay rent on a shack in somebody else's garden 

I'm of the same mine as Kibim, though it must be taken into account that 2x5kWh is usually more expensive than 1x10kWh and definitely more complicated. You're paying for 2 BMS rather than one, for a start, and there is more wiring involved and the BMS must be connected together.

1 hour ago, Douw G. Gerber said:

So this nonsense of sending people out to do this...they came to me to do the upgrade,  I smell another tenderpreneur who scored big time.

That was the original plan. It would enable them to do an audit at the same time. But there were too many problems with technicians not being able to get access, so they went the soft upgrade route instead. 

The auditing is still going ahead. They were in my street on Friday, auditing all properties with pre-paid meters, or trying to.

And yes, the guys who do it are doing contract work for the city, getting so much for each completed job. But they are not all working for some big company with links to political organisations. A lot of them are individuals with more than one stream of income. I once caught an Uber of a morning, and the driver's other hustle (he wouldn't say which was the "side hustle") was installing pre-paid meters for City Power.

26 minutes ago, Scorp007 said:

but I feel like the SS batteries drain faster than the Pylontech ones I had in Jhb. This may be unfounded, I haven't done the numbers, but from 98% SOC in the

Eish! I am losing my vision as well as getting old. Thanks for the correction.

At last COJ have started rolling out the soft upgrades for the prepaid meters.

When you buy a token you get THREE numbers to input. The first two perform the TID update, the third is the credit and will only work on the upgraded meter. 

I did this yesterday. I bought a small amount through FNB as per usual, and got a message with three numbers (as is supposed to happen).

Punched them in one at a time and got the amount I paid for. The existing credit balance was retained, and the meter serial number did not change.

Go to @CitypowerJhb on X and look for the announcements that were sent out RE the TID upgrade. The upgrade window is date limited and the dates are different for each area. Midrand, for example, is open from 15th until the end of the month. Where I live opened yesterday and is open for one week. Don't ask, I don't know.

On 2024/04/04 at 10:36 AM, system32 said:

See attached "COJ MEETING SCHEDULE FOR IDP BUDGET AND TARIFFS PUBLIC OUTREACH 2024"

Hopefully we can object to the ridiculous proposal to have a "Service Fee (Meter Reading)" on prepaid electricity.

MS-Teams links in the PDF

 

Meeting-Schedule-for-IDP-Budget-and-Tariffs-Public-Outreach-2024.pdf 117.12 kB · 1 download

Did you?

Today is the closing day for objections. One way to object is to go to the IDP session for your region. The entire executive committee is there and they will listen to objections. You get 2 minutes to say your say. Given the number of objections and suggestions they have to listen to, the time limit is necessary and they don't get into any debates there and then. But you can say pretty much what you like as long as you don't use foul languate and as long as you stick with in the two minutes.

You can email [email protected]. Be sure to identify where you live and give your account number.

Lots of questions arise, but here's where I'd start.

From your days with the Goodwe you would have access to SEMS portal. See if you can get some statistics from that - especially consumption per day. Now compare your consumption then to your consumption now. If there's a significant difference then start investigating your current set up. Try to compare the night time useage of the two systems as that is when you notice the difference. 

There is a reason for this. Maybe your geyser is running when you don't expect that it is. Maybe the thermostat is set high. IDK... but get those numbers first. Then if you can narrow it down to a couple of suspects you can control them. Or play a game of elimination. Turn a breaker off each night. See how the system responds. If you find one breaker that makes a big difference, go and see what is connected to that.

You don't mention the brand of your current batteries. I'm assuming Sunsynk. Did you buy them new and from a reputable installer or supplier?

2 minutes ago, TaliaB said:

 

Thieves normally target cables from the sub stations using 3ph. If a 3ph 4 wire system is balanced there is no current flow in the neutral conductor. There will be much less current flowing in the neutral conductor so safer to cut a energizer neutral wire than cutting a phase wire.

Ah. And then people in the properties fed by that substation start getting shocks every time they touch a tap etc.

And if there's load shedding going on they can safely swipe the whole lot. Then nobody gets electric shocks because there is no electric.

An interesting opinion about Ellies here

I agree with the headlines. Ellies was just something you found on shelves at retail outlets. They could have done a better job of building brand awareness, of differentiating themselves. They seemed to prefer piggy backing on other brands (Builders, Checkers/Shoprite). Maybe it was too easy for them for too long a time. 

The article makes another valud point: This is a sad story. A lot of people lost jobs at a time when unemployment is already at record levels. To quote Bruce Springsteen: "those jobs are going, boys, and they ain't coming back."

 

On 2024/04/03 at 9:35 AM, TaliaB said:

more networks are subjected to cable theft, where the neutral is specifcally targetted. 

Thanks for this interesting post. 

Why would thieves target netural conductors? I presume they do so only in above ground situations where the conductor is identifiable by colour/

On 2024/04/14 at 10:34 PM, daniemare said:

I do not have any battery capacity left when my geyser turns on for morning heating

I heat water early in the morning. On a bad morning my battery will have 55% SOC when the heating starts, and about 43 when the run finishes. I have 10kWh of battery. Can you cut back on your overnight useage? That will give you more flexibility and better protection for the worst case IE no grid early in the morning and no/low PV.

24 minutes ago, Rou said:

Hello @Bobster, congrats for finalising your SSEG registration!
Would you please let us know- are they really switched your tarif from Pre-paid to Post-Paid or never bother to do it? Thanks!

I remain on pre-paid. AIUI, anybody who wants to sell back has to switch to the TOU tariff, but I don't want to sell back. If the tariffs changed to make that more attractive I might reconsider my position, but right now I can't even break even on it, I lose. I would rather give my excess production away and not be charged for that.

Interesting fact: There are over 1.4 million households in Johannesburg, but less than 284 000 pre-paid meters. I'd have thought that pre-paid was such an obviously good deal that everybody would have made the move, but it seems not.

Going forward it will be less attractive a proposition, and it is clear that COJ's strategy is to reduce the difference between pre- and post-paid.

All pre-paid users should be raising their voices here. At the moment the new tariffs are PROPOSED, not actual, and there is time to object (to the City, not to each other on social media). I went along to the IDP session for my region and told the MMCs (they were all there) that pre-paid users are no risk to the City, pay in advance which is good for the City's cash flow, and so the fixed fees are unjustifiable. I don't know if this will make a blind bit of difference, but at least I can say I spoke out about it.

There is still about a week to get input in (objections or suggestions about how money should be spent or raised).

And extra 3.6 kWh of battery will give you enough stored energy to run the geyser for something less than an hour. (geyser consumes 4 kW, battery probably provides a useable 3.2 kWh). 

I have a heatpump for my water heating. My timings are similar to yours. I run it on backed up side of the DB and I have 10kWh of battery. I NEVER run the heat pump after 3pm. Because the draw is lower and the water heating faster, I get away with the heat pump on the backed up side as long as don't go too crazy with appliances in the kitchen. 

That's what works for me. I haven't been without hot water for getting on 5 years now.

So, on the basis that it works for me, I'd spend the money on the heatpump. Do a little research first. I would expect that things have improved over the last 8 years and so you will be able to get a pump with the same heating capability but that uses less power.

A heatpump is one of those things where you have to spend now to save down the line (though 8 years is a bit short, you'd expect more like 10, and mine is 13 in a couple of months). Since you have PV already, your savings will be not as great, though I'm guessing that every now and then your battery runs down and you have to fall back on to the grid. But what it will save you is ability to run off of power stored in the battery and to get through power outages and still have hot water.

Seems that Ellies Holdings is being wound up, but Ellies Electronics may yet live on

https://mybroadband.co.za/news/business/532191-ellies-holdings-is-dead-long-live-ellies-electronics.html

They started getting more competition. Think of those red see-thru plugs with surge protection in them. The market for them surged (sorry), and other companies saw the opportunity and climbed on the bandwagon. ACDC, for one, are now bringing in a competing product that offers the same protection (though not the all the diagnostic stuff which just confuses the likes of me) at a lower price. Extension cords same thing. Just about anything Ellies were selling, there is now a competing product from another company.