Newbie that would appreciate some inputs/guidance

[JohnB_GP]

Hi All

I was originally looking at a system that could handle load shedding easily do a decent inverter and Lithium batteries that could charge in the 4 hour period between stage 4 load shedding, lately though I think systems need to be able to handle outages due to breakdown which I have had 10 to 22 hours which then need solar assistance.

I am on a prepaid meter (Cashpower - Landis Gyr)

I have converted all lights to LED, Have put the Geyserwise PV Panel system on the geyser and have a Gas Hob with electric oven. But a 12,000 BTU & 18,000 BTU aircon which only 1 would be used at a time.

I use around 400 Units a month so not massive consumption but need to be able to handle the load if I decide to switch an aircon on etc ?

I have experienced 2 types of quotes and either seem.

1. Over the Top and claim I will save R2,000 a month in electricity usage (I only pay R600 a month now so are they paying me the difference)

2. Totally Under rated so suggest a 5kw Inverter with one or two 2.4kwh batteries. From what I have seen this will void the warranty as you batteries need to be a bigger rating.

Probably my best so far has been a 5kw or 8kw (due to to AC) Sunsynk and 2 x 3.6kwh Greenrich Lithium Batteries which are 2C and then 9 x 450w Panels. I still think this is under the warranty requirements with the battery size.

So here comes my frustration, if its a good day my batteries will be charged in the morning and I cant feed back to the grid so panels could may as well be used to to run the aircons and anything else I choose within the load limits on the inverter and so far everyone wants to put those only on Grid power.

Am I missing something or would something like the pic be possible ?

 

Any guidance or inputs will be appreciated, I'm not an electrician it just seems logical and also would allow all neutrals to be split by breaker as this seem to be a common problem.

[JoeSlow]

1 hour ago, JohnB_GP said:

Probably my best so far has been a 5kw or 8kw (due to to AC) Sunsynk and 2 x 3.6kwh Greenrich Lithium Batteries which are 2C and then 9 x 450w Panels. I still think this is under the warranty requirements with the battery size.

So here comes my frustration, if its a good day my batteries will be charged in the morning and I cant feed back to the grid so panels could may as well be used to to run the aircons and anything else I choose within the load limits on the inverter and so far everyone wants to put those only on Grid power.

 

I think your analogy of usage and requirements make way more sense than those provided to you by 3rd parties.

Have you calculated your peak usage required during power outage? Your battery concern also depends on what your extended peak load will be during outage or night time. One 2.4kwh battery with a .5C rating will be able to supply you continues discharge of 1.2kw. Having two 2.4kw batteries will yield you 2.4kw continues discharge. I hope I have this part correct. Also new but been studying up a lot 

Using as much of the PV system during the day where possible whilst having enough to charge the batteries seems general consensus here by everyone. Unless you draw load you won't see it on the logs.

The Sunsynk 5kw's GRID and AUX/Gen inputs also serve as an output. As far as I understand you want to put you none essential power hungry loads on the GRID side but on the inverter side of where the CT coil will go. Exactly how it work I'm unsure but read it in the Sunsynk training manual where they state "once you understand that the GRID is an input AND an output" you will be able to use the inverter to its full potential.

The Sunsynk will also act as your load distributor and get power from the Grid if needed. You can have complete bypass switches which disables your whole system. This is handy in case of inverter failure and waiting for repair or replacement.

[FixAMess]

The sunsync allows one to set the discharge/load from the battery so you can have only 1 battery but then you must limit the load (Amps) to what the battery is rated for, not max rating but recommended or lower than max at least. The sunsync setting gurus will be able to help you with this.

1 hour ago, JohnB_GP said:

Totally Under rated so suggest a 5kw Inverter with one or two 2.4kwh batteries. From what I have seen this will void the warranty as you batteries need to be a bigger rating.

 

[JohnB_GP]

Thanks guys, from JoeSlow's reply I might need to learn more about essential and non essential loads as I may be getting this part very wrong.

I thought non essential loads was basically grid power loads, but now sounds like it can be running Aircons etc with panel power within the limits while the grid is on and then once you loose grid then they switch off............. Or could it be even better that if you batteries are full/above x percent and the PV Panels are giving power it will allow non essential loads to operate and only switch to essential loads based on battery percentage regardless of grid power.

This could completely change my view. 

[JohnB_GP]

I checked with the installer that I have been talking to and he said that the non essential side can only be powered by the grid.

This brings me back to my frustrating part as I would be within the limits of the Inverter and panels but would be using 200W of TV and unable to switch on a 2,000W aircon if the PV Panels are generating the power as the aircons need to go on non essential side.

[Yellow Measure]

4 hours ago, JohnB_GP said:

I checked with the installer that I have been talking to and he said that the non essential side can only be powered by the grid.

This brings me back to my frustrating part as I would be within the limits of the Inverter and panels but would be using 200W of TV and unable to switch on a 2,000W aircon if the PV Panels are generating the power as the aircons need to go on non essential side.

It sounds like your installer hasn't sufficient experience with Super Hybrid inverters. That's pretty sad, but it's good to know that there are plenty of approved Sunsynk installers in SA. Some of them have photographs of their work in the Member's installation gallery.

The 5.5K Sunsynk is a very capable machine, my monthly electricity bill was 300-330 kWh pm before solar, so not much less than yours, and 15 months ago I didn't even use the non-essentials side, everything was (and still is) on essential load (UPS), even my heatpump. I now use around 360-380 kWh, because I can, my Eskom utilisation is between 0.2 and 1kWh pm, and I "waste" a lot because I cannot use it all. 

I get past the 0.5C limitation of my Pylontech batteries by placing 3 in parallel as described by @JoeSlow,but if I did my installation again I would probably opt for two Hubble AM-2s instead.

What does concern me is the Greenrich (or is it Batterich, or a Growatt Hope 3.3l-C1) battery. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I see that there appears to be only one model available, and it appears to be only from one supplier? 

Storage is undoubtedly the most expensive part of an ESS system, and batteries often get upsized after the install. Are you sure that you are comfortable with the sustainability of the manufacturer, to be able to supply you with a similar (and compatible) unit if you wish to expand (in 1-2 years' time)? Also, to be around to support you when things go awry, or if there is a warranty claim? I am not saying that it's a bad battery, it has unbelievable pretty impressive specs (which isn't congruent with its stated chemistry). You might want to double check, do some powerforum searches, and reach out to @Kalito and perhaps others.

 

 

Edited November 27, 2021 by YellowTapemeasure

[GreenFields]

4 hours ago, JohnB_GP said:

I checked with the installer that I have been talking to and he said that the non essential side can only be powered by the grid.

This brings me back to my frustrating part as I would be within the limits of the Inverter and panels but would be using 200W of TV and unable to switch on a 2,000W aircon if the PV Panels are generating the power as the aircons need to go on non essential side.

Layman's 2c. Not sure if I'm interpreting this correctly. Could be that the installer is referring to running the aircons in the absence of the grid (alternatively a generator) being not possible if it's on the non-essential circuit.

But if the grid is up and running, and the CT coil is installed correctly (consult Sunsynk Training Manual), then any available solar power from the inverter should in theory be channeled to the aircons and any other non-essential loads too, and if the solar generation is not sufficient, the balance should be drawn from the grid (alternatively a generator). 

[JohnB_GP]

9 minutes ago, GreenFields said:

Layman's 2c. Not sure if I'm interpreting this correctly. Could be that the installer is referring to running the aircons in the absence of the grid (alternatively a generator) being not possible if it's on the non-essential circuit.

But if the grid is up and running, and the CT coil is installed correctly (consult Sunsynk Training Manual), then any available solar power from the inverter should in theory be channeled to the aircons and any other non-essential loads too, and if the solar generation is not sufficient, the balance should be drawn from the grid (alternatively a generator). 

That would work for me, installer said it would only be on eksdom power and the sunsynk basically ignores non essential loads and they are only grid which doesn't make logical sense to me and seems like a total waste of a system as then why have a non essential load section.

My head says

Essential load= low/no PV panel power and battery below level x then switch to Essentials to preserve batteries.

Non Essential Load = Good PV panel power and good battery then use that and top up with eksdom power if needed.

Else why have a Clever Inverter, you can just wire Essential and leave the rest on the original DB.

Maybe I need to start talking to different installers, I think any electrician is getting on the solar train which I don't blame them for but makes it difficult if buyer doesn't figure out for themselves.

I may have it wrong though. In that case I would appreciate being told that I have an ID 10 T error.

[JohnB_GP]

1 hour ago, YellowTapemeasure said:

It sounds like your installer hasn't sufficient experience with Super Hybrid inverters. That's pretty sad, but it's good to know that there are plenty of approved Sunsynk installers in SA. Some of them have photographs of their work in the Member's installation gallery.

The 5.5K Sunsynk is a very capable machine, my monthly electricity bill was 300-330 kWh pm before solar, so not much less than yours, and 15 months ago I didn't even use the non-essentials side, everything was (and still is) on essential load (UPS), even my heatpump. I now use around 360-380 kWh, because I can, my Eskom utilisation is between 0.2 and 1kWh pm, and I "waste" a lot because I cannot use it all. 

I get past the 0.5C limitation of my Pylontech batteries by placing 3 in parallel as described by @JoeSlow,but if I did my installation again I would probably opt for two Hubble AM-2s instead.

What does concern me is the Greenrich (or is it Batterich, or a Growatt Hope 3.3l-C1) battery. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I see that there appears to be only one model available, and it appears to be only from one supplier? 

Storage is undoubtedly the most expensive part of an ESS system, and batteries often get upsized after the install. Are you sure that you are comfortable with the sustainability of the manufacturer, to be able to supply you with a similar (and compatible) unit if you wish to expand (in 1-2 years' time)? Also, to be around to support you when things go awry, or if there is a warranty claim? I am not saying that it's a bad battery, it has unbelievable pretty impressive specs (which isn't congruent with its stated chemistry). You might want to double check, do some powerforum searches, and reach out to @Kalito and perhaps others.

 

 

Thank you for your reply. 

I am not comfortable at all with the Greenrich as I can't find a single reference to them anywhere, I wasn't happy with the number of them either as I think battery storage is key, where the suggestion of the ex potential installer was rather increase the size of the Inverter so I can connect an aircon so he suggested 8kw Inverter and 18 panels instead of 9 but kept the 2 batteries.

This is what led me to look at a manual switch option which seems like not needed as the inverter can manage it.

Only part I was happy about the recommendation was the brand of Inverter.

He came to do an assessment and I expected him to connect a meter up to check the draw and switch things one and off etc, but no testing.....

I will be looking through some of the installers on this site, I was giving him the benefit of the doubt.

[Bruce Gu]

Some information about Greenrich UP3686 with 8KW inverter

1. Greenrich (Batterich) UP3686 has 3.68KWH capacity, and output Power can be discharged (115A) up to 5KW per battery.

2.if you want to use Greenrich UP3686 with 8KW inverter, you may use 2 batteries, and connect to Bus Bar. you can draw 8KW in full.

3. application of 24KW （3 X 8KW） inverter with 6 Greenrich UP3686 as attached.

Please feel free to contact me for any further information.

[Bionicvader]

Hi, need some help to get a Greenrich 3.6 battery connected with a luxpower inverter. 

Can't figure out the inverter settings for the battery to connect. 

Pls help, can't find much on internet. 

[AshleyMoolman]

On 2022/02/16 at 11:09 PM, Bionicvader said:

Hi, need some help to get a Greenrich 3.6 battery connected with a luxpower inverter. 

Can't figure out the inverter settings for the battery to connect. 

Pls help, can't find much on internet. 

Hi i hope this helps, you can also contact them if you have more questions!

 

https://www.elleyhillpower.co.za/pages/greenrich-luxpower-5kw

[McAllstar]

On 2021/12/03 at 3:38 PM, Bruce Gu said:

Some information about Greenrich UP3686 with 8KW inverter

1. Greenrich (Batterich) UP3686 has 3.68KWH capacity, and output Power can be discharged (115A) up to 5KW per battery.

2.if you want to use Greenrich UP3686 with 8KW inverter, you may use 2 batteries, and connect to Bus Bar. you can draw 8KW in full.

3. application of 24KW （3 X 8KW） inverter with 6 Greenrich UP3686 as attached.

Please feel free to contact me for any further information.

HI 

Are you able to help me with the correct battery settings for my 3.6kw Greenwich battery connected to a 8KW Deye inverter with 10 x 545w jinks panels. I'm specifically looking for the capacity, Max A charge, Max A discharge etc. 

[Bruce Gu]

On 2022/03/08 at 7:43 PM, McAllstar said:

HI 

Are you able to help me with the correct battery settings for my 3.6kw Greenwich battery connected to a 8KW Deye inverter with 10 x 545w jinks panels. I'm specifically looking for the capacity, Max A charge, Max A discharge etc. 

Greenrich UP3686 has 3.68Kwh capacity, and can supply maximum 5Kw power constantly. You have 8Kw inverter, I think it is Better you use 2 x greenrich Up3686. It allows you use Full capacity of inverter, eg 8Kw at backup mode. You may contact me for setting manual

[McAllstar]

thanks for the response and feedback. I'll purchase another battery and once it's installed I'll be in touch.

 

Regards Brett