Hi Guys

I bought 2 x HA12 battery balancers – that has a Bluetooth output with bat voltages etc.

I hooked 1 up to a bank A – 4 x CSB HRL 12390W 100 amps batteries – and after a couple hours of running one night shows – looks to me like n faulty battery, bat C took a dive ?

Am I correct saying that it is a faulty C battery ?

See pictures below

Thanks

 

 

 

Edited October 26, 20223 yr by TZP
wrong pics

18 hours ago, TZP said:

Am I correct saying that it is a faulty C battery ?

Definitely looks like battery C is the issue, it could be faulty or it could be a wiring issue. How are the batteries wired? I would double check the connections on that battery and see if it continues to do the same thing.

Hi Jumper

Batteries are connected in series. 

4 batteries per string (bank) make it 48V.

The lugs on the cables I use are a bit big but I use a penny washer on each connection to the battery – they are thigh. But just to make sure I will check them again!

I see the same happened on the 2^nd string (bank) - bat B is pulling the same stunt –

These Batteries are new batteries ? ? ?

I think without this battery balancer one would never have picked this up?

Will check all connections again and see.

Thanks

 

 

What would be the better settings on the inverter for these batteries ! – 

4 x CSB HRL 12390W 100amps batteries in series. Please see attached photo.

Its a Mercer 5kw inverter. Please see attached photos

Settings currently on the Inverter:

12 – switch back to AC - 46.0v

26 – Bulk charge - 55.5v

27 – Float – 54.6v

29 – Low DC cut off - 44v

Would it be necessary to do an equalizing charge seeing the balancers are connected to the batteries?

What amperage should the batteries be charged at ? – I read somewhere on the forum a warning about undercharging batteries – would this be a wrong Voltages or Amperage setting causing the undercharging ?

Thank you very much in advance for all the help.

 

 

Settings seems fine. I would however do a equilizing every 2 months. This is to equilize the cells in each battery. The balancer only tries to balance between the batteries. Equilize level 15V. It is worth charging battery B with a 12V smart charger to see that it accepts charge. It might not be reaching it's fully charged level.  This is done with the inverter switched off 

Lastly I would not discharge those batteries down to the 10.79V shown in graphs.

There is definitely something funky going on with those batteries, but as @Scorp007says, you are discharging the batteries a bit low. I would set setting 29 to at least 48V, but with SLA it is best to stay above 50V if you can or the batteries won't last. The batteries seem to work fine until you get to a low voltage and then they start to act up, 12V is already very low for most LA batteries.

3 hours ago, TZP said:

What amperage should the batteries be charged at ? – I read somewhere on the forum a warning about undercharging batteries – would this be a wrong Voltages or Amperage setting causing the undercharging ?

Undercharging usually comes from too low voltage, if the amperage is low it just takes longer to charge as long as you get to the right voltage. You could actually push your bulk charge up to 57.6V

On 2022/10/27 at 6:13 PM, Scorp007 said:

Settings seems fine. I would however do a equilizing every 2 months. This is to equilize the cells in each battery. The balancer only tries to balance between the batteries. Equilize level 15V. It is worth charging battery B with a 12V smart charger to see that it accepts charge. It might not be reaching it's fully charged level.  This is done with the inverter switched off 

Lastly I would not discharge those batteries down to the 10.79V shown in graphs.

@ Scorp007 

Thanks for the reply.

Battery B on the graph is at 10.69 v because it failed (I think) the other 3 batteries was at 11.73 average as can be seen on the graph. I think total voltage appears low because B just dropped out and drag the average voltage down.  

Did put Bat B on a smart charger tonight will see what it does and give feedback.

Will set the equalizing every 2 months @ 60 v – any recommendation for the equalization time period ? – for what duration would you recommend?

@Jumper

Don’t want to kill these bats – is the reason why I want to ad a second bank – but now have the issue with the batteries. Maybe I should just ad them – let them run for a while and then see.

Maybe just do an equalization on them it could just help the bats to either die or come right ?

I am charging the 4 x 12v 100 amp bank with 20 amps – is this to low or not ?

When I ad the second bank in parallel - I double the charge to 40 amps – will this be correct ?

Thankyou for all the help and advice

14 minutes ago, TZP said:

Don’t want to kill these bats – is the reason why I want to ad a second bank – but now have the issue with the batteries. Maybe I should just ad them – let them run for a while and then see.

Maybe just do an equalization on them it could just help the bats to either die or come right ?

I am charging the 4 x 12v 100 amp bank with 20 amps – is this to low or not ?

When I ad the second bank in parallel - I double the charge to 40 amps – will this be correct ?

I think your batteries might be ok if you don't discharge them below 12V, set your cutoff to at least 48V (more like 49V) and see how that goes. If it doesn't last long enough then add batteries, don't lower the cutoff. I have SLA batteries with the same charge voltages and I calculated that 50% is around 12.35V, going lower than that is not good long term and as you can see your batteries also get funky below that. I try to stay above that, but I am off grid so sometimes I don't have a choice. I don't have any data like you do on my SLA batteries so my experience is very 'rough', I wouldn't know if they were balanced or not and what the lowest voltage would be.

I would say 20A is fine to charge at, I don't like to fast charge any batteries if I don't have to, 40A will be fine for more batteries. If you do an equalization then drop the amps down to 10A and don't leave it at 60V for long, I would do 30mins max, but just check that your batteries don't get hot, the problem with sealed batteries is you can't add any electrolyte that boils off and you can damage them permanently.

Great advice from @jumper

I would perhaps allow the batteries to discharge to 48V if they are under normal load.

Hi guys

Just as an FYI-I also have the HA12 balancer, however the bluetooth module together with the app is garbage and should not be relied on. My only reliable way of getting readings is with my multi meter.

Morning guys

Yesterday wanted to do  equalizing on my system - but the inverter code showed 09 - voltage did increase to 60v (as set) !

Amp settings was reduced to 10 amps ?

Any suggestions ?

2 banks x 4 x CSB HRL 12390W 100amps batteries in series = 48v system total 200 amps !

Thanks

Edited April 12, 20233 yr by TZP

On 2023/04/12 at 7:57 AM, TZP said:

Morning guys

Yesterday wanted to do  equalizing on my system - but the inverter code showed 09 - voltage did increase to 60v (as set) !

Amp settings was reduced to 10 amps ?

Any suggestions ?

2 banks x 4 x CSB HRL 12390W 100amps batteries in series = 48v system total 200 amps !

Thanks

I've not used the equalization function on my inverter, so I don't have experience with it, but my first thought would be that 60V is too high as some of these inverters only manage 58.4V max charge voltage, but if your inverter allows you to set 60V then one would expect it can handle it. Is there any possibility that the inverter could have the incorrect firmware loaded? I would also think it would throw fault code 03 (bat voltage too high) if that was the problem, but I'm not sure exactly how they behave in that circumstance and if it first fails on the soft start.

@Coulomb do you perhaps have any experience with the equalization function causing fault code 09 (Bus soft start failed) or are you able to tell from the sticker if it is indeed a 64V max charge voltage version? Thanks

On 2023/04/12 at 7:57 AM, TZP said:

Morning guys

Yesterday wanted to do  equalizing on my system - but the inverter code showed 09 - voltage did increase to 60v (as set) !

Amp settings was reduced to 10 amps ?

Any suggestions ?

2 banks x 4 x CSB HRL 12390W 100amps batteries in series = 48v system total 200 amps !

Thanks

I've not used the equalization function on my inverter, so I don't have experience with it, but my first thought would be that 60V is too high as some of these inverters only manage 58.4V max charge voltage, but if your inverter allows you to set 60V then one would expect it can handle it. Is there any possibility that the inverter could have the incorrect firmware loaded? I would also think it would throw fault code 03 (bat voltage too high) if that was the problem, but I'm not sure exactly how they behave in that circumstance and if it first fails on the soft start.

@Coulomb do you perhaps have any experience with the equalization function causing fault code 09 (Bus soft start failed) or are you able to tell from the sticker if it is indeed a 64V max charge voltage version? Thanks

On 2023/04/12 at 3:57 PM, TZP said:

Yesterday wanted to do  equalizing on my system

I don't think that you should be equalising sealed lead acid batteries. 15 V per nominally 12 V module is way above their 25° gassing voltage, and sealed battery modules have very limited ability to re-absorb gases.

However, I see from an earlier photo that they should be able to take 15 V per module somehow, at least at 25°C and lower. I'd be using a lower voltage than 15.0 V per module, and only equalise for say 30 minutes max. Perhaps do that weekly if the modules seem to need equalising (i.e. their terminal voltages vary).

On 2023/04/13 at 5:55 PM, jumper said:

do you perhaps have any experience with the equalization function causing fault code 09 (Bus soft start failed) or are you able to tell from the sticker if it is indeed a 64V max charge voltage version

This appears to be an Axpert MKS II, they are supposed to be 64 V models. My understanding is that when fault code 09 comes up, it's only at power-up, and doesn't allow you to continue doing anything. But it looks like battery charging is an exception. @TZP, were you able to power loads with this fault code showing?

I can't see any connection between fault code 09 and high battery voltages. At just under 3 years old, it doesn't seem old enough to have had the MOSFETs fail through dried out battery capacitors. I assume that if there was a big bang and smell of burning epoxy, you would have reported that. That's the usual result with fault code 09. So maybe it's just a coincidental failure of the soft start power supply.

@TZP, does the fault code 09 come up every time, or does it sometimes start successfully? Don't try too often if you don't have pre-charge on the battery connection. That's really hard on the bus capacitors, and they are what protects the MOSFETs.

Hi Coulomb and Jumper

Thanks for the response

Yes – had the normal load running without problems with the code 09 flashing.  If I disenable the 33 – soft start kicks in and charge the batteries normally.

Sorry found the “problem” – RTFM  - normally solves a problem.

One sees CODE 09 and immediately expects the worst. – but looking at he manual . . .  please see attached.

Funny with the E9 the volt goes up to 60v as was set but it draws max 2 amp to equalize the batteries ?

Thanks for the advice I am just relieved to know that nothing is wrong with the invertor.

TZP

 

On 2023/04/14 at 4:00 PM, TZP said:

Funny with the E9 the volt goes up to 60v as was set but it draws max 2 amp to equalize the batteries ?

Ahhhhhh, so it's Eq, not E9, that explains it. The 2A is fine as the batteries are full and don't need high current to equalize and probably wouldn't accept more, no need to cook them.