Was Looking for 2 x 200w panels - Sorted - some good info here for ideas now.

[Guest]

hi,

Anyone know where I can find new, or second hand, 2 x 200w panels that are aligned with these specs?

Edited August 27, 2018 by Guest

[KLEVA]

Hi TTT

I don't know of any 200W available currently at this spec but my 100W panels in a 2+2 config conform to that. They are the standard Renysys 100W panels, I use them on my Camper Van and on the small controllers in house/gate motor. I get mine locally from a Battery place in Hillcrest for around R900/each when buying 4 at a time (last purchased in Feb this year)

[Guest]

1 hour ago, KLEVA said:

... 100W panels in a 2+2 config conform to that ...

Ja, Yingli had them, near exact spec ... but I did not by at that time.

I'm not quite clear how one would connect 2 x 100w panels in series with 2 x 200w panels already in series?

[KLEVA]

Based on your signature stating that you running 400W to your Victron100/30, I am assuming it is to increase that to 800W 600W
To keep an exact balance, I would put 1 x 200W & 2 x 100W on one string (ie: 2 x 100W in Series to replace 1 x 200W), and duplicate that in the second string. If you don't want to rewire then you can connect all 4 100W in series (giving 400W) and connect this as a second string, but think the first option is better as the MPPT won't have to fight. As long as the 2 parallel strings are similar/close you will get almost 800W from the 2 strings together.

Option 1: Add the 2 x 100W connected in Parallel to your existing series string... 1 x 200 + 1 x 200 + 2 x 100 = 600W at about 90V and  about 8A.
Option 2: Split into 2 parallel strings with each string having 1x200 + 1x100, multiplied by 2 strings this will give you 600W at about 45V and about 16A

I think the 45V option might be too low for your Victron to perform properly though, I need to find and read the specs.

Edited August 26, 2018 by KLEVA
Misread, needs 600W not 800W

[KLEVA]

@The Terrible Triplett - Hi TTT, I edited my comment to show the 2 panels you asked for not the 4.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, KLEVA said:

I am assuming it is to increase that to 800W

Jip.

Have not had to think about this for years! :-) 

Clever idea that! Would not have come up with that at all! I'll put that down as Option 2.

You gave me an idea. In not finding any 200w panels on the web that is even close to my current specs, Option 1: instead of mounting 4 panels, mount 2 panels.

The 2 new panels being as close in volts and amps, as the existing 200w ones.

[KLEVA]

I have hit the same issue a few times. 100W is about the biggest I can use with the small cheap 12V PWM controllers, they then jump so drastically in Voltage that a 280+ comes across as the only next jump. Cannot find a 150W or 200W where the Voltage is low enough for the small controllers < 19V, hence 3 seperate panels on my Camper with NO space for more.

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, KLEVA said:

I need to find and read the specs.

● The controller will operate only if the PV voltage exceeds battery voltage (Vbat).
● PV voltage must exceed Vbat + 5V for the controller to start. Thereafter minimum PV voltage is Vbat + 1V.

The Solis on the other hand, started at either 50v or 60v ... on the smaller models.

Your experiences on the higher volts required, was an eyeopener for me.

[KLEVA]

Costwise though, it might be worthwhile looking at 2 x new 350W panels from ArtSolar in Pinetown (Around R1800 each) and keeping the 200W panels for something else later?

[KLEVA]

6 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

● The controller will operate only if the PV voltage exceeds battery voltage (Vbat).
● PV voltage must exceed Vbat + 5V for the controller to start. Thereafter minimum PV voltage is Vbat + 1V. 

Then Option 2 is out, go for Option 1.

34 minutes ago, KLEVA said:

Option 1: Add the 2 x 100W connected in Parallel to your existing series string... 1 x 200 + 1 x 200 + 2 x 100 = 600W at about 90V and  about 8A.

The MPPT will sort it out

Edited August 26, 2018 by KLEVA

[___]

49 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

I'm not quite clear how one would connect 2 x 100w panels in series with 2 x 200w panels already in series?

As long as their IMax (max current) is within 10%, you just string them up in series. So you have 2 * 200W plus 2 * 100W for 600W total. Practically you'd find that the 200W panels are 72-cell modules, and the 100W modules are 36-cell modules, so by putting the two into series you are effectively building a 72-cell module out of the two, and it's all the same in any case.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, plonkster said:

100W modules are 36-cell modules

Damn, I forgot that too!

[KLEVA]

If interested in the ArtSolar panels (they are now 350W not 320W as on their website) and you cannot get directly from them for that price, let me know - I am close and am a registered dealer for them (only cause I wanted lower prices on my own panels - he he), so can get lower pricing. They are 72 cell so might be larger than your existing 60 cell, so might have to check how you can mount.

Website: https://artsolar.net/pv-modules/

[KLEVA]

@plonkster - I think from the spec of the Tenesol originally they were 60cells (the voltages seem to indicate that too).

[Guest]

1 minute ago, KLEVA said:

@plonkster - I think from the spec of the Tenesol originally they were 60cells (the voltages seem to indicate that too).

54 cells / 6 x 9 for the 200w - there goes that idea ... 

@KLEVA - drop me a PM on the price of the 350w ArtSolar panels?

At this rate, unless I get a moerse clever solution, take the 200w panels off, one had a meeting with me already ito smoke and all that, and look 3 x 350w panels on a newer 150/35 controller, selling the 100/30, as it is still under warranty, as I bought it in 2016 new.

 

Tenesol - TE190_220-54P en.pdf

Tenesol-Te290_310-72M.pdf

[KLEVA]

Will do, will find out tomorrow.
But, that does not discount the option 1 above - Cell Count wont matter if you do a small Parallel string inline with your series string, since it will only be the voltages and current that come into play.

[KLEVA]

PS: AHA - you have 1 smoked 200W that you originally looking to replace?

[KLEVA]

Found the Manual - 3 x 350W should be within spec of the 100/30, so you shouldn't need a new controller.

Firstly, didn't realise that it is a 24V Controller (sorry, my assumption is always 12/48V), You can series or parallel the strings easily since the Max Voltage is 100V from PV. My suggestion is to series to keep the Voltage high for the MPPT (same as what you where doing with the 200W panels)

Edited August 26, 2018 by KLEVA

[Guest]

1 minute ago, KLEVA said:

PS: AHA - you have 1 smoked 200W that you originally looking to replace?

Jip. Like the pic. Panel has been working for a while again, after replacing the diodes. But the connector box is shot.

[KLEVA]

Ouch!

No stress though. Typical Blue Victron style - They take a lot of beating, just at a financial cost - You will be good with Option 1 using 100W panels - Voltage at 90V is below it's spec, and the 8A is well below it's spec.

If you go with 3x350, then bear in mind that 1050W is "out of spec" but as per previous discussions on this forum, it will never try use more than 880W (the spec) because the MPPT will do it's job. The voltage will remain inline, but the current could go above - remember this is all based on absolute maximums. 10% over spec (as per the manual) is 968W - So you may, while all the 350W panels are performing 100% on a brilliant sunny day, just get over that by about 80W, I think you will be safe and good if you have a DC current breaker (Voltage will never go over, it will be a current overrun if any - due to the MPPT). Due to PV degradation over time, after a year you probably can NEVER go over.

[___]

55 minutes ago, KLEVA said:

originally they were 60cells

It still shouldn't matter as long as they Imax/Isc is close. In the end you just have one long string of similar capacity cells... it's really just the packaging (60 or 36 per glass/aluminium enclosure) that's different. Add up the voltages and you're done.

[KLEVA]

Besides, When have you known anything SA made to perform at spec

[KLEVA]

@plonkster - I am old school, Voltage/Current/Power, so if I am wrong I am missing something - If you add the cells/panels in series (200 vs 100) won't you have a problem with the current maximum? Surely if you have a panel that can only handle 4A (rating of the 100W panels) of the 8A(rating of the 200W panels), then the entire array will be limited to that 4A if connected in series? Also, 30+30+30+30 Volts is 120V, over the spec of the 100/30?

Edited August 26, 2018 by KLEVA
Bad Math

[Guest]

I hear you Kleva.

Am toying with the idea now, that:
Make the panels fit on the 100/30, with more frames - which cost - with that one panel that will not last its design life. Was not suppose to last this long. :-) 
VS
Starting the next phase quicker, a new 150/35 and 3 x 350w panels on it. Volts and amps are inline for a 150/35

Instead of 1330w starting point, I jump to 2 x 150/35's and about 2kw - in for a dime in for a pound - grid tie will make it back quick.

The 200w panels where from 2010/11, the 310w's from 2012 or some such. They where some of the biggest modules at the time.

Prefer bigger panels and their mounting costs are lower.

[KLEVA]

Cool, will send you the info tomorrow - You will buy direct, I will just get the price and a supplier Id. Dependant on price I might buy the 100/30 to use on my Camper Van