9 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

Hold on a bit ... that is R1125.00 for a 200ah battery?

Either you are seriously connected and get them at manufacturers cost (if they can do it that low) or they are 2nd hand ... or they are like really el-cheepo i.e. soon to be real anchors. 

Deep cycle solar batteries contains a lot of lead and is the main part, the other transportation costs due to dangers and weight, that drives their prices up ... then you have designers spending years on to make them work optimally - like lasting +-8 years (4000 cycles) before mother nature takes over - old age.

So R1125 per batt I would  most definitely try a MBB ... but not at the prices we common folk pay for a 48v / 24v battery bank. And with a MPPT, no anchor, so that the banks last as per the manufacturers specs, and the period they specify, if you follow their VOLTS and AMPS requirements, not Watts. 

1 - We know that.
2 - We know that too, the batt manufacturer gives us that, and we set the "anchors" to do that.
3 - That is dependent on the load the inverter pulls, discharge rate which is given to us by the batt manufacturer. Our peril to ignore.
4 - We know that, but unless you have them batts in a temp controlled room or special room, it is difficult at best.
5 - Therein the manufacturers specifying the temp compensation - that a "anchor" can handle. 

We can use batteries anywhere we like. Alaska, N/S Pole, Sahara, Karoo ... Hogsback / Lesotho highlands in the middle of winter ... just follow the manufacturers specs and use a good "anchor" that is programmable see. 

For 2 200 batteries. I never saw these batteries and was not prepared to take the risk. But then I bought a lot of other stuff routers, switches  one router R58 000 so I recon it was goodwill.  Never realized what they actually cost until today.

 

4 minutes ago, Erastus said:

Things like that is what the little box do.

I'm happy for you, but the above is useless to us. We do the best we can with what we can get on the market today, stuff that has been properly researched and designed, by engineers.

What you are describing sounds really good, I like, but I cannot buy it, not can it interface with my current inverter, to handle the ESS part.

FYI. No-one here paid those prices for those MPPT's. 99.5% of this forum uses Axperts / Infini's from Voltronic. Axpert 5kva inverters with a built in MPPT, cost more or less what the high end Victron controllers costs on its own. 

And most grid tied inverter, with no batts, go like 600v-1000v form panels to inverter. Again, a point to ponder for they all need a MPPT, or two. Solis inverters caught my attention, price wise. Cheaper than a Victorn MPPT in some cases.

And for what it's worth, nor I nor Paul or Plonskter, paid that for controllers either. ;-)

3 minutes ago, Erastus said:

Never realized what they actually cost until today.

Excellent, no more confusion on that point. 

Show your MBB. Pictures and graphs. MAke us believers.

Just now, The Terrible Triplett said:

I'm happy for you, but the above is useless to us. We do the best we can with what we can get on the market today, stuff that has been properly researched and designed, by engineers.

What you are describing sounds really good, I like, but I cannot buy it, not can it interface with my current inverter, to handle the ESS part.

FYI. No-one here paid those prices for those MPPT's. 99.5% of this forum uses Axperts / Infini's from Voltronic. Axpert 5kva inverters with a built in MPPT, cost more or less what the high end Victron controllers costs on its own. 

And most grid tied inverter, with no batts, go like 600v-1000v form panels to inverter. Again, a point to ponder for they all need a MPPT, or two. Solis inverters caught my attention, price wise. Cheaper than a Victorn MPPT in some cases.

And for what it's worth, nor I nor Paul or Plonskter, paid that for controllers either. ;-)

Excellent, no more confusion on that point. 

Show your MBB. Pictures and graphs. MAke us believers.

Look there is a lot more I can write about the controller. To be fair it is part of the inverter. It is a synchronize system that manages a few of my systems where I install them. I do monitor it for my clients and when they have errors then I have all the data and easy to resolve the problems. They are smiling because it is cost effective and working very well. It is designed to be cost effective easy installation and my clients smile all the way

1 hour ago, Erastus said:

In total I have +/- 120 different parameters that I monitor From this I can can calculate all what is necessary to determine the status of my solar panels, batteries.

So with this MBB you still have to calculate the State of your batteries. At 9 tonight can you please calculate the SOC of your bank. At the same time I will look at the display of my 702 and see the result of such a Calculation.

"Status Of Solar panels" is a completely new term to me, care to explain?

10 minutes ago, Erastus said:

Look there is a lot more I can write about the controller. To be fair it is part of the inverter. It is a synchronize system that manages a few of my systems where I install them. I do monitor it for my clients and when they have errors then I have all the data and easy to resolve the problems. They are smiling because it is cost effective and working very well. It is designed to be cost effective easy installation and my clients smile all the way

This graph runs in Java. I can drill down int 1 second values my cycle time is @ .0001 seconds. It is real time single or 3 phase. I do not have all the variables on this. Here are some of the internal variables. Batt V,Min Batt V,Mx Batt V,Pw,Solar %,Solar IC, Solar DtC,Solar TC,Gen I,Gen I DT,Gen I T, P1 220V,P2 220V,P3 220V,P_1 I, P_1 C, P_1 CDT, P_1 CT,P_2 I, P_2 C, P_2 CDt, P_2 CT,P_3 I, P_3 C, P_3 CDt, P_3 CT,UseCur,UseCrDt, UseCurT,Z1,Z2,Z3,Z4,Z5,Z6,East M,West M,Top,Bot,Kwatt I,KwattD,KwattT,BattT Curr,Batt %,P Ti On,Batt ChLev,EastWest D,UpDown D,EastWest,VDirGI,MoveI,UpDown,HoriDirGI,Mini C,Ph1_220RmsV, Ph2_220RmsV, Ph3_220RmsV,SolarInstCurrRms, SolarCurrRmsDayTotal, SolarCurrRmsTotal,BattRms,BattRms,BattRms,ElecOnT,PwmC
Regards

1 hour ago, Jaco de Jongh said:

So with this MBB you still have to calculate the State of your batteries. At 9 tonight can you please calculate the SOC of your bank. At the same time I will look at the display of my 702 and see the result of such a Calculation.

"Status Of Solar panels" is a completely new term to me, care to explain?

If you have many systems running I can calculate the drop in power of the panels. Then I know which one must be replaced. We know before the client knows there is a lost in harvesting. The sentence is wrong. The MBB calculates the state of the batteries and sets a flag if it is not ok it sets a flag. 

24 minutes ago, Erastus said:

To be fair it is part of the inverter. It is a synchronize system that manages a few of my systems where I install them.

Costs?

Ok here is a couple of things that I can work out. Keep in mind that I did say in the beginning that I am out of my depth. 
Take my Yingli Panel - So they should have a voltage of 30.5 v and open voltage of 37.7 now running a 48 v system 1 panel will give me a under charge where by 2 x panels will give a max charge of 60.1 v that will gas the batteries that is not vented. From every thing that I understand Volts determines how much amps will go into the batts. The higher the volts the more amps will will take hence why the chemicals will start to gas. With out a charge controller you will not be able to limit the amount of volts that goes into the batts.

MPPT , as I understand it , optimizes the Solar volts into better amount of amps , how ever not sure how it does this  . 
Then you get the manufacturer that gives very specific charge properties for their batteries to ensure that they give you the optimal performance , you will not be able to achieve these by not having a charge controller of sorts.
Then you have the other challenge of the amps that needs to be moved to your Inverter - lets take 2800 w / 30.5 =  91 amps that needs to be moved to your inverter in some way that is quite a bit of power.

Before I forget here is a Narada Speck sheet that relates to the cycles of the batteries. What do you gays make of it?

 

MP Series Cycle.pdf

I sold the "charger" on its own for R 1800. That controls 8 strings. The beauty of it is it can control many more panels.  2 Kwatt grid tie inverter which is one phase of 10Kw R4800.  It costs my client +/- R 9000 as a combination. It is designed like lego . Koop noga blokkie ...

2 minutes ago, PaulF007 said:

... gays ...

Seriously ... 

On 2018/09/26 at 12:55 PM, Jaco de Jongh said:

Now to try and answer his question. Seems like this battery was designed for standby and only a float voltage is given and that is 54 Volts

I tend to agree with you @Jaco de Jongh on the Axpert I had the same settings but I had bulk charge at 57.2 v. I found that the Victron might go into bulk charge once a week , as I understand it I dont discharge the batteries low enough to trigger a bulk charge. On the Axpert I would go into bulk every day..

1 minute ago, Erastus said:

I sold the "charger" on its own for R 1800. That controls 8 strings. The beauty of it is it can control many more panels.  2 Kwatt grid tie inverter which is one phase of 10Kw R4800.  It costs my client +/- R 9000 as a combination. It is designed like lego . Koop noga blokkie ...

CoCT, will they approved it? You said you did the effort.

Any brochures, website, manuals?
Pictures?
Data goes where, how?

For let me say this, that is cheaper than a Axpert. 

2 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

Seriously ...

Well you answered didnt you -- if the shoe fits --  is the some closet some where ???

3 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

CoCT, will they approved it? You said you did the effort.

Any brochures, website, manuals?
Pictures?
Data goes where, how?

For let me say this, that is cheaper than a Axpert. 

I have approached SABS & NERSA. It will be full SABS ....  approved. As soon as I can that process will start. That is my next step. The unit can be onboard expanded to 10Kwat single phase or 10Kwatt 3 phase. Nope I do not have brochures. I can not keep ahead at this moment in time. If I get my PCB and they are properly done then I can order plenty PCB and get going. I had 2 set manufactured and will see the impact of it and how to package it. But the box is made to handle the full 10Kwatt unit. Currently the final stage is running @ 600V and only provide an efficiency of 97.8%. The final unit will run @1000VDC then at 10Kw 3 phase I will have an efficiency of >99% and at 10% it falls to 92%. Once I have the box done properly then I will jack up the buck converter to 1000VDC.
Comms currently I dump via flash & 485. If I want I can put a small stack on it and then have wifi but the cpu's in under strain then. The manufacturer is busy releasing a quad core cpu with quad math processor. Then I can use one CPU for coms only then it will be a small wifi stack unit. I have been concentrating on other stuff rather than comms. Right now we are looking at 1 year guarantee  and we will have a 10 year guarantee   if we install the unit. But i has now LCD  only 220V line 48V DC 2 comms ports. The beauty is one can start with 2 x 250W panels maybe 260 anything greater than that is a waste.

It will also start a genny with no power and you can control 8 devices digital lines for on and off. I do not have the years experience and neither the other requirements but I believe I have a game changers.  I have been told with a bigger order of PCB the cost will drop a bit

There you have it in a nut shell.

49 minutes ago, Erastus said:

If you have many systems running I can calculate the drop in power of the panels. Then I know which one must be replaced

Do you measure (monitor) every single panel? and when is the drop because of clouds, rain, a sand storm, dirt ,broken tracker or just a drop in demand? How does the software know when to alarm you that the production has dropped? Or is it only for many systems and used as a comparison.  If so no one with a single system can benefit from your MBB .

Is this assumption correct, by way of caparison, you can identify a faulty system?  

1 minute ago, Jaco de Jongh said:

Do you measure every single panel? and when is the drop because of clouds, rain, a sand storm, dirt ,broken tracker or just a drop in demand? How does the software know when to alarm you that the production has dropped? Or is it only for many systems and used as a comparison.  If so no one with a single system can benefit from your MBB .

Is this assumption correct, by way of caparison, you can identify a faulty system?  

Nope I measure a string. Next to it you have another 7 strings that should be equal

1 minute ago, Erastus said:

Next to it you have another 7 strings that should be equal

How would your system help me. I have one string of 12 panels in series?

40 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

Seriously ... 

  So sorry!!!  Spelling not my cup a tea

3 minutes ago, Jaco de Jongh said:

How would your system help me. I have one string of 12 panels in series?

You change the configuration, more strings, to matches the batts and inverter DC side volts better.

One thing I am not quite sure about: Volts don't kill you, amps do. So the lower the volts, the higher the amps. What am I missing?

1 minute ago, Erastus said:

  So sorry!!!  Spelling not my cup a tea

Was not you ... Paul call you all names. 

6 minutes ago, Jaco de Jongh said:

How would your system help me. I have one string of 12 panels in series?

Will not sell lit to you.  .  I do not work above 90VDC it is simply to dangerous ..  But I am sure if I look at your system and reconfigure it I will harvest more energy and   .
It all depends on the inverters input span. And then you can sell your MPPT

10 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

You change the configuration, more strings, to matches the batts and inverter DC side volts better.

No way sir, loose the early morning and late afternoon harvest, no way.... not happening, and live with the extra losses in converting 90 volts DC to 230vac compared to the losses to convert 300VDC to 230Volt ac, also not happening. 

Pay all that money for info I already have... also not happening. If I realize my production drops, I get on the roof, clean my panels and wait for it to drop again.. 

3 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

You change the configuration, more strings, to matches the batts and inverter DC side volts better.

One thing I am not quite sure about: Volts don't kill you, amps do. So the lower the volts, the higher the amps. What am I missing?

You need volts to breakdown your skin resistance. Depending how thick skinned you are the higher the voltage. But from 90VDC it gets a little rough. In my case I am ok and can handle 140V. To input the parameters I think it is called a computer

8 minutes ago, Erastus said:

I do not work above 90VDC it is simply to dangerous .. 

Then why disign your system for 600 to 1000Volt. All that expensive electronic components will just increase the price of your MBB.  Thats a total waste of money, imo, Ill rather waste my money on a MPPT then.