Any news on when this inverter may be included in Cape Town's approved inverter list?

It is still only carrying the Grid models!

Anyone chatted to Victron?

Edited April 14, 20197 yr by Mistral

11 minutes ago, Mistral said:

Any news on when this inverter may be included in Cape Town's approved inverter list?

You must have an old copy of the list. It is on the list already (the 3kva). See here http://resource.capetown.gov.za/documentcentre/Documents/Forms, notices, tariffs and lists/Approved Photovoltaic (PV) Inverter List.pdf

Thank You!😀

 

But I am confused still says Multi Grid Not Multi Plus II?

Edited April 14, 20197 yr by Mistral

Grid is the old model.

2 hours ago, Mistral said:

But I am confused still says Multi Grid Not Multi Plus II?

Dude...

There was a version of the older Multiplus that had built-in anti-islanding called the Multigrid (TTT and I have that one). Then they made a new lower-cost model that has a steel case, and they initially called it the Multigrid-II. Then it's name was changed to the Multiplus-II.

That's why yhe Multigrid-II and Multiplus-II above have identical certificate numbers. It is literally the same inverter (with some minor changes).

Edited April 14, 20197 yr by plonkster

Thanks - Confusing for Newbies!

 

Maybe someone can shed some light on this.

From the following document:

Multiplus II to Multigrid Comparison

On page 2, the following diagrams appear:

The diagram on the left is the newest hardware version of the Multiplus II (HW rev 8 and up), while the one in the centre is the older hardware version (HW rev < 8).

It looks like in the older hardware version, AC OUT 2 does not pass through the dual anti-islanding relays. Since Victron claims it was designed to comply with NRS 097-2-1, something seems wrong here.

Is the diagram overly simplified, or is it an actual issue that we should be cognizant of?

1 hour ago, CarlT said:

It looks like in the older hardware version, AC OUT 2 does not pass through the dual anti-islanding relays. Since Victron claims it was designed to comply with NRS 097-2-1, something seems wrong here.

Why would that preclude it from NRS compliance? 🙂

AC-out-2 is simply connected to the input side. It might as well not be there. You could do the same thing by just connecting your loads directly to the grid! The only tiny difference is that there is an AC current sensor on the input side and whatever you put on AC-out-2 will reflect in this sensor, which means you can use PowerAssist and GridAssist (aka ESS) for those loads without having to add extra hardware. But in all other respects it's not really an "output" per se, and as a result it simply goes down with the grid.

In the new revision they simply added a programmable switch (like they had in the earlier Multis). Some customers use that to drop loads.

Edited April 16, 20197 yr by plonkster

1 minute ago, plonkster said:

Why would that preclude it from NRS compliance? 🙂

AC-out-2 is simply connected to the input side. It might as well not be there. You could do the same thing by just connecting your loads directly to the grid! The only tiny difference is that there is an AC current sensor on the input side and whatever you put on AC-out-2 will reflect in this sensor, which means you can use PowerAssist and GridAssist (aka ESS) for those loads without having to add extra hardware. But in all other respects it's not really an "output" per se, and as a result it simply goes down with the grid.

In the new revision they simply added a programmable switch (like they had in the earlier Multis). Some customers use that to drop loads.

Isn't the idea that there should be two anti-islanding relays between the input and the output(s), thereby ensuring that it isn't possible to back feed into the grid if you have an AC inverter with PV connected to AC OUT 2?

3 minutes ago, CarlT said:

if you have an AC inverter with PV connected to AC OUT 2?

The PV-inverter has its own anti-islanding. It must... using the Multi to anti-island a non-compliant inverter is not a supported scenario anyway, and probably a bad idea to boot.

Edit: Also, putting PV-inverters on AC-out-2 is done rarely. In the old hw-revision it might make sense, because then you gain the current sensor (and the Multi will attempt to import your PV-inverter production), but it's again no different from just connecting it right to the grid.

Edited April 16, 20197 yr by plonkster

1 minute ago, plonkster said:

The PV-inverter has its own anti-islanding. It must... using the Multi to anti-island a non-compliant inverter is not a supported scenario anyway, and probably a bad idea to boot.

So ideally, will the Multiplus detect Loss of Mains, and communicate with the PV inverter to ensure it shuts down?

Just now, CarlT said:

Isn't the idea that there should be two anti-islanding relays between the input and the output(s), thereby ensuring that it isn't possible to back feed into the grid if you have an AC inverter with PV connected to AC OUT 2?

If you have a grid tie connected to A/C out this grid tie has to have its own NRS-097 compliance. 

In the above case the inverter has its two relays as required.

In any case, should you choose to install a grid tie on the output you would likely choose A/C Out 1 as then your inverter can keep your grid tie alive during load shedding. In this case the grid tie would not need to be NRS-097 compliant as the Victron takes care of everything.

Rainier

Just now, CarlT said:

communicate with the PV inverter to ensure it shuts down

Nope. Not its job. The PV-inverter shuts down on its own. It has its own anti-islanding.

When the grid fails, the Multi opens the two-in-series relays between the inverter (which also feeds AC-out-1) and the grid. Ac-out-2 is now disconnected (along with the grid) from the inverter and there is now no power on that side. The PV-inverter now has nothing to tie with, and if it has proper NRS compliance it will shut down.

Just now, plonkster said:

and if it has proper NRS compliance it will shut down

And if not... that is hardly Victron's fault 🙂

Just now, CarlT said:

So ideally, will the Multiplus detect Loss of Mains, and communicate with the PV inverter to ensure it shuts down?

The grid tie inverter shuts itself down if there is no mains to piggyback onto. No further comms to anything required.

 

Just now, plonkster said:

Nope. Not its job. The PV-inverter shuts down on its own. It has its own anti-islanding.

When the grid fails, the Multi opens the two-in-series relays between the inverter (which also feeds AC-out-1) and the grid. Ac-out-2 is now disconnected (along with the grid) from the inverter and there is now no power on that side. The PV-inverter now has nothing to tie with, and if it has proper NRS compliance it will shut down.

Of course...slow day for me...

8 minutes ago, plonkster said:

The PV-inverter has its own anti-islanding. It must... using the Multi to anti-island a non-compliant inverter is not a supported scenario anyway, and probably a bad idea to boot.

Edit: Also, putting PV-inverters on AC-out-2 is done rarely. In the old hw-revision it might make sense, because then you gain the current sensor (and the Multi will attempt to import your PV-inverter production), but it's again no different from just connecting it right to the grid.

By moving AC OUT 2 behind the relays, you then limit your total load to whatever the 32A (and 50A for the 5kVA) relay can handle?

I'm guessing then that that specific limit doesn't apply to AC OUT 2 on the earlier HW revision. My Multiplus II (that I picked up on Friday), is still this older version. I was going to bypass AC OUT 2 completely since I have seen that it sometimes happens that in our house someone switches on the tumble dryer and electric kettle on at the same time, and while they are on the geyser switches on to re-heat water. All of this pushes the load very close to the 32A limit.

The only limit might now be the current limit on the PCB traces...

2 minutes ago, CarlT said:

bypass AC OUT 2 completely

Yup, lots of people opt not to use it at all. TTT and I have the older Multigrid and we don't use AC-out-2 either. We use an external current sensor to do our ESS work. The MP-II also has the option to use an external current transformer that gives you the same benefit.

What size are the battery cable studs on the Multiplus II? And are the nuts included in the packaging?

I'm sitting at work, so can't confirm. Also can't find specifics on the web.

I want to buy battery cables this afternoon (together with lugs), and won't be able to go home first to check.

1 hour ago, CarlT said:

What size are the battery cable studs on the Multiplus II? And are the nuts included in the packaging?

They are M8. Nuts are included (why wouldn't they be?).

Edited May 10, 20197 yr by plonkster

7 minutes ago, plonkster said:

They are M8. Nuts are included (why wouldn't they be?).

This may have changed on the newer "Multiplus-II" but the battery cable studs on my "Multigrid-II" (bought October 2018) are definitely M6. The chassis Earth stud is M8.

Nuts are included.

Edited May 10, 20197 yr by NigelL

1 minute ago, NigelL said:

This may have changed on the newer "Multiplus-II" but the battery cable studs on my "Multigrid-II" (bought October 2018) are definitely M6. The chassis Earth stud is M8.

Aaaah yes, you are right. They very early models were indeed M6.

40 minutes ago, NigelL said:

This may have changed on the newer "Multiplus-II" but the battery cable studs on my "Multigrid-II" (bought October 2018) are definitely M6. The chassis Earth stud is M8.

Nuts are included.

Thanks. From the 3D pdf, I measured around M5, but this helps a lot.

Who has been shopping for a 48/5000w version of the multiplus  II and where was the best price . I found a current automation for just over R22K .