January 24, 20215 yr 5 hours ago, PierreJ said: Yes. According to Victron, you need a minimum of 4 x Pylontech batteries with a Multiplus II 5kVA. It's not only about the total energy storage, but also the startup currents of the inverter, peak currents, etc. See here: https://www.victronenergy.com/live/battery_compatibility:pylontech_phantom If you sacrifice the A/Cs then the energy storage capacity of two batteries should be sufficient to power your loads through loadshedding, however your battery bank would still be under-specced for the inverter. I have never tried to run my Multi with only two batteries, so I can't definitively tell you what issues (if any) you'll encounter. You could always start with two, and if you get DC ripple, BMS or other warnings then add more. Thank you Pierre, My client has decided to rather go for a 3KvA Victron Multiplus 48/3000/35-50 and 2 x 2.4kwh Pylotech batteries. He wants it installed in his offices to run 14x 20w LED lights 7x PC's , Server and CCTV. would this system be suitable...??
January 24, 20215 yr Author 37 minutes ago, David27 said: Thank you Pierre, My client has decided to rather go for a 3KvA Victron Multiplus 48/3000/35-50 and 2 x 2.4kwh Pylotech batteries. He wants it installed in his offices to run 14x 20w LED lights 7x PC's , Server and CCTV. would this system be suitable...?? Let's do the worst case scenario math: Assuming a power factor of 0.5 for the LEDs (a capacitive load), it's 40VA per LED. If every computer has a screen, let's go for 200VA each. I have no idea how much power a CCTV system uses but it'll probably not be more than 100VA. That gives a total of 14 * 40 + 8 * 200 + 100 = 2260VA. The 3kVA Multi can sustain 2.4kW, so it will be able to carry the load. If you allow a 90% DoD on the US2000 batteries it'll give you just under two hours of runtime (when new). Given that the above estimates are on the pessimistic side I reckon it'll probably work, but there's very little room for future expansion. What if someone unexpectedly wants to run a laser printer or some other device that draws a couple of hundred watts?
January 24, 20215 yr 2 hours ago, PierreJ said: Let's do the worst case scenario math: Assuming a power factor of 0.5 for the LEDs (a capacitive load), it's 40VA per LED. If every computer has a screen, let's go for 200VA each. I have no idea how much power a CCTV system uses but it'll probably not be more than 100VA. That gives a total of 14 * 40 + 8 * 200 + 100 = 2260VA. The 3kVA Multi can sustain 2.4kW, so it will be able to carry the load. If you allow a 90% DoD on the US2000 batteries it'll give you just under two hours of runtime (when new). Given that the above estimates are on the pessimistic side I reckon it'll probably work, but there's very little room for future expansion. What if someone unexpectedly wants to run a laser printer or some other device that draws a couple of hundred watts? Thank you Pierre, That sure does make a lot of sense, especially the "No room for expansion" part. Do you have any idea of what VA for a server rack would be..? Bottom line....your personal opinion, what system would you recommend, I put forward to my client..?
January 24, 20215 yr Author 1 hour ago, David27 said: Do you have any idea of what VA for a server rack would be..? That'll depend entirely on the hardware. Instead of guessing - why don't you ask the client to measure all their loads with a plug-in power meter so you know exactly what you're dealing with? 1 hour ago, David27 said: Bottom line....your personal opinion, what system would you recommend, I put forward to my client..? If I was the client I would get the 5kVA Multi with a 4+ battery cabinet, but only two batteries initially. If I run into issues with the two batteries I would just add more. In case you haven't noticed, Pylontech has released a new model: The US2000C. The price seems to be about the same as the US2000B, but it allows a 95% DoD. The US3000C is the larger capacity model.
January 26, 20215 yr On 2021/01/24 at 11:03 PM, PierreJ said: That'll depend entirely on the hardware. Instead of guessing - why don't you ask the client to measure all their loads with a plug-in power meter so you know exactly what you're dealing with? If I was the client I would get the 5kVA Multi with a 4+ battery cabinet, but only two batteries initially. If I run into issues with the two batteries I would just add more. In case you haven't noticed, Pylontech has released a new model: The US2000C. The price seems to be about the same as the US2000B, but it allows a 95% DoD. The US3000C is the larger capacity model. Yes, we have (Well the client) has decided that we go with the 5kVA Multi with 2X batteries for the meantime, then when we get another 2 we can get the 4 Battery Cabinet. I have not noticed the US2000C and will definitely look into it, Price etc and get them, as a better option. Thank you for your information Pierre, much appreciated. I will keep you up- dated with the progress.
January 26, 20215 yr 3 hours ago, David27 said: Yes, we have (Well the client) has decided that we go with the 5kVA Multi with 2X batteries for the meantime, then when we get another 2 we can get the 4 Battery Cabinet. I have not noticed the US2000C and will definitely look into it, Price etc and get them, as a better option. Thank you for your information Pierre, much appreciated. I will keep you up- dated with the progress. Hi Pierre, I am trying to find out if I would be able to use 2x Pylontech US3000C 3.5 kW batteries (If Compatable...?) with the Victron Multiplus 5kVA...? From the Victron viewpoint, their (Pylontech) 48V batteries can work with all our 48V MultiPlus and Quattro range, meaning our full range from 500VA to 15000VA applies. A unique feature in the energy storage market. ( I came across this on the Victron Site) Do you think they will work..? They will be a better choice, if so. DoD= 95% and 3552Wh at 3.5kWh...?
January 27, 20215 yr Author 11 hours ago, David27 said: Hi Pierre, I am trying to find out if I would be able to use 2x Pylontech US3000C 3.5 kW batteries (If Compatable...?) with the Victron Multiplus 5kVA...? Do you think they will work..? They will be a better choice, if so. DoD= 95% and 3552Wh at 3.5kWh...? Yes, they will work. The US3000 series is the larger capacity version of the US2000: 50% larger storage capacity, as well as 50% greater maximum charge and discharge currents. They are otherwise the same, and you can even parallel the two different models together in the same battery stack if you want to. Pylontech compatibility info is here: https://www.victronenergy.com/live/battery_compatibility:pylontech_phantom Specifically note that you will need a GX Device (like a Cerbo) to be able to talk to the battery BMS, otherwise the battery will shut itself down after a while. Be aware that the CAN-bus pinout for the C-series batteries differs from the pinout of the B-series. You can make the cable up yourself using Cat5 cable and RJ45 jacks. The pinout is here: https://www.victronenergy.com/live/battery_compatibility:can-bus_bms-cable Edited January 27, 20215 yr by PierreJ
January 27, 20215 yr 1 hour ago, PierreJ said: Yes, they will work. The US3000 series is the larger capacity version of the US2000: 50% larger storage capacity, as well as 50% greater maximum charge and discharge currents. They are otherwise the same, and you can even parallel the two different models together in the same battery stack if you want to. Pylontech compatibility info is here: https://www.victronenergy.com/live/battery_compatibility:pylontech_phantom Specifically note that you will need a GX Device (like a Cerbo) to be able to talk to the battery BMS, otherwise the battery will shut itself down after a while. Be aware that the CAN-bus pinout for the C-series batteries differs from the pinout of the B-series. You can make the cable up yourself using Cat5 cable and RJ45 jacks. The pinout is here: https://www.victronenergy.com/live/battery_compatibility:can-bus_bms-cable Good Morning Pierre, Once again thank you so much for your valuable information and knowledge. I plan to then get the US3000C's as a better option. I will keep you informed with the progress and take photos to post on the forum. Have an Awesome and safe day.
January 29, 20215 yr Author On 2021/01/27 at 8:25 AM, David27 said: I plan to then get the US3000C's as a better option. Apparently there's another new model coming, the UP5000, which has a 4.8kWh capacity. It sounds like it will be even better bang for the buck than the US3000C. Link: https://segensolar.co.za/product/pylontech/storage-systems-pylontech/li-ion-battery-pack-storage-systems-pylontech/pylon-up5000-4-8kwh-li-ion-solar-battery-48v/ Edited January 29, 20215 yr by PierreJ
January 31, 20215 yr On 2021/01/29 at 12:00 PM, PierreJ said: Apparently there's another new model coming, the UP5000, which has a 4.8kWh capacity. It sounds like it will be even better bang for the buck than the US3000C. Link: https://segensolar.co.za/product/pylontech/storage-systems-pylontech/li-ion-battery-pack-storage-systems-pylontech/pylon-up5000-4-8kwh-li-ion-solar-battery-48v/ Hi Pierre, I have a client that has a solar panel (Collector) connected to his Geyser, with a controller and circulation pump. He would like the circulation pump to run during a Power Outage (Load Shedding) from the back up Inverter, and obviously NOT the geyser element. Pump Only. Would you have some advise as to how connect this this up, using perhaps a Relay...??? On 2021/01/27 at 7:16 AM, PierreJ said: Yes, they will work. The US3000 series is the larger capacity version of the US2000: 50% larger storage capacity, as well as 50% greater maximum charge and discharge currents. They are otherwise the same, and you can even parallel the two different models together in the same battery stack if you want to. Pylontech compatibility info is here: https://www.victronenergy.com/live/battery_compatibility:pylontech_phantom Specifically note that you will need a GX Device (like a Cerbo) to be able to talk to the battery BMS, otherwise the battery will shut itself down after a while. Be aware that the CAN-bus pinout for the C-series batteries differs from the pinout of the B-series. You can make the cable up yourself using Cat5 cable and RJ45 jacks. The pinout is here: https://www.victronenergy.com/live/battery_compatibility:can-bus_bms-cable Good Morning Pierre, Once again thank you so much for your valuable information and knowledge. I plan to then get the US3000C's as a better option. I will keep you informed with the progress and take photos to post on the forum. Have an Awesome and safe day.
January 31, 20215 yr Author 1 hour ago, David27 said: I have a client that has a solar panel (Collector) connected to his Geyser, with a controller and circulation pump. He would like the circulation pump to run during a Power Outage (Load Shedding) from the back up Inverter, and obviously NOT the geyser element. Pump Only. Would you have some advise as to how connect this this up, using perhaps a Relay...??? I would move everything except the element to the essential loads output of the inverter - the element remains connected directly to the live and neutral from the grid. The geyser output of the controller I would connect to a 230V relay (or contactor) that switches the live wire going to the element. Make sure that the contactor or relay you use is sized appropriately. I would go for overkill, in case someone installs a higher powered element in future. I would also size the breaker from the essential loads DB to be just large enough to carry the controller and pump - in case some fool connects it directly to the geyser element (or worse, the grid) somewhere down the line. I'm paranoid, so I might even consider putting small fuses in the control wires going to the relay if I feel there is any chance that someone may confuse those wires with the wires coming from the grid and the wires going to the geyser. Note that this is not my area, so there may be regulatory requirements that I am not aware of.
January 31, 20215 yr 43 minutes ago, PierreJ said: I would move everything except the element to the essential loads output of the inverter - the element remains connected directly to the live and neutral from the grid. The geyser output of the controller I would connect to a 230V relay (or contactor) that switches the live wire going to the element. Make sure that the contactor or relay you use is sized appropriately. I would go for overkill, in case someone installs a higher powered element in future. I would also size the breaker from the essential loads DB to be just large enough to carry the controller and pump - in case some fool connects it directly to the geyser element (or worse, the grid) somewhere down the line. I'm paranoid, so I might even consider putting small fuses in the control wires going to the relay if I feel there is any chance that someone may confuse those wires with the wires coming from the grid and the wires going to the geyser. Note that this is not my area, so there may be regulatory requirements that I am not aware of. Thank you Pierre, I just don't think I fully understand the connection that you have explained. From the Grid the supply runs to an isolator switch, then to the Controller, then out the controller to the Geyser, there is also an output to the circulation pump and to the Controller's Control panel. I am just trying to make sense of how I connect the supply to the geyser, only using one cable, Live and Neutral...?
January 31, 20215 yr 2 minutes ago, David27 said: Thank you Pierre, I just don't think I fully understand the connection that you have explained. From the Grid the supply runs to an isolator switch, then to the Controller, then out the controller to the Geyser, there is also an output to the circulation pump and to the Controller's Control panel. I am just trying to make sense of how I connect the supply to the geyser, only using one cable, Live and Neutral...? This is the Controller system installed : http://www.mzansisolar.co.za/downloads/solar-geysers/control-panels/SR868c8 - Controller Manual.pdf SR868c8 - Controller Manual.pdf - Mzansi Solar Operation manual of solar water controller SR868C8/SR868C8 Q ... Electrical heater, gas boiler or oil boiler can be integrated into solar system used as back- up ...
January 31, 20215 yr Author 45 minutes ago, David27 said: This is the Controller system installed : http://www.mzansisolar.co.za/downloads/solar-geysers/control-panels/SR868c8 - Controller Manual.pdf I see the H1 (geyser) relay has a 10A current limit, so I reckon you'll probably find there's already an external relay for the element that you can reuse.
January 31, 20215 yr Author 1 hour ago, David27 said: Thank you Pierre, I just don't think I fully understand the connection that you have explained. From the Grid the supply runs to an isolator switch, then to the Controller, then out the controller to the Geyser, there is also an output to the circulation pump and to the Controller's Control panel. 1) Disconnect the controller from the isolator and connect it to the inverter output instead (via a breaker in the essential loads DB and a new additional isolator next to the controller). 2) Connect the geyser output of the controller to a relay that you use to switch the live coming from the grid isolator. 3) Connect the switched live coming from the relay and the neutral coming from the grid isolator to the element.
January 31, 20215 yr 1 hour ago, David27 said: Thank you Pierre, I just don't think I fully understand the connection that you have explained. From the Grid the supply runs to an isolator switch, then to the Controller, then out the controller to the Geyser, there is also an output to the circulation pump and to the Controller's Control panel. I am just trying to make sense of how I connect the supply to the geyser, only using one cable, Live and Neutral...? I see you've this same question running in two threads. Anyway, my suggestion is as given although the point is you can't do it on only one cable. You'll need to run two cables, one from essential (for the pump) and one from non-essential (for the element). The controller output then activates a contactor/relay to the element, which draws its actual power via another cable.
January 31, 20215 yr 1 hour ago, PierreJ said: 1) Disconnect the controller from the isolator and connect it to the inverter output instead (via a breaker in the essential loads DB and a new additional isolator next to the controller). 2) Connect the geyser output of the controller to a relay that you use to switch the live coming from the grid isolator. 3) Connect the switched live coming from the relay and the neutral coming from the grid isolator to the element. Okay, Thank you so much, I got it now.
January 31, 20215 yr 1 hour ago, David27 said: Okay, Thank you so much, I got it now. Just a Question...? Okay so it cuts off the Neutral to Geyser, and the live still goes through, however the geyser won't work without a neutral, which is what we want. But where does the neutral for the pump come from...??
January 31, 20215 yr 3 minutes ago, David27 said: Just a Question...? Okay so it cuts off the Neutral to Geyser, and the live still goes through, however the geyser won't work without a neutral, which is what we want. But where does the neutral for the pump come from...?? From the inverter. One way to think of this is to set up the controller (and pump) as a device running from the inverter. The element is a different device, running from non-essential load. And then the contactor from the controller just gives the instruction to the geyser to turn on. Edited January 31, 20215 yr by Speedster
January 31, 20215 yr Pierre, Perhaps you can do a diagram of the circuit, take a photo and post it to me via WhatsApp...? I would really appreciate that. cell: 079 877 1878.
January 31, 20215 yr 3 hours ago, Speedster said: I see you've this same question running in two threads. Anyway, my suggestion is as given although the point is you can't do it on only one cable. You'll need to run two cables, one from essential (for the pump) and one from non-essential (for the element). The controller output then activates a contactor/relay to the element, which draws its actual power via another cable. Yes, I realize that I have it on two threads, not intentional. Thank you for your advise.
February 12, 20215 yr On 2020/12/20 at 9:42 PM, PierreJ said: Got the sign-off from CoCT about a month ago, so my DIY solar project is finally done and dusted. Thanks to everyone on the forum that provided advice - I probably would have stuffed it up if it wasn't for you. The whole project took about three months of evenings and weekends to finish, and was a welcome distraction from the current state of the world. 4 strings of 4 Canadian Solar 400Wp poly panels in series, facing NNE. Another string of 4 Canadian Solar 400Wp panels in series, facing WNW. All five strings are paralleled together for a combined 8kWp. This is my main DB. CoCT installed a new split prepaid meter. According to the technician that installed it it has built-in reverse power blocking. I have tested it to see what it does when I try to feed in power in to the grid, and it charges me in both directions. That is perfectly fine in my opinion - much preferable to it tripping when there is momentary feed-in. Grid power is measured by an ET112. There is a breaker that connects the main DB to the solar installation in the scullery: Top-left is the AC DB. Top-right is the DC combiner box. Bottom left is the Multiplus II 5kVA inverter, and bottom middle the SmartSolar 250/100 MPPT. The SmartSolar was initially running a bit hot for my liking, so I mounted it on a 6mm thick aluminium plate which brought down peak temperatures from 82C to 65C. Bottom-right is the Victron Cerbo. The battery cabinet on the floor contains 5 PylonTech US2000 batteries for a total nominal capacity of 12kWh. I've set it to 80% DoD: Close-up of the DC buses. Close-up of the AC DB, with and without cover. Close-up of the DC combiner box, with and without cover. The geyser and oven, as well as the swimming pool DB are connected to the main DB, so those are unpowered when there is loadshedding. The AC DB in the scullery is connected to the output of the Multiplus, so all the essential loads stay powered when grid power goes down. Is it wise to connect all strings of PV panels in parallel if they are not looking at the same direction? Wouldn't affect their generating capacity ?
February 12, 20215 yr Author 37 minutes ago, giorgos said: Is it wise to connect all strings of PV panels in parallel if they are not looking at the same direction? Wouldn't affect their generating capacity ? Panels in different orientations in parallel is not a problem. If they were in series then that would have been a mistake. See the attached case study for an explanation. east-west-solar-paper.pdf Edited February 12, 20215 yr by PierreJ
February 13, 20215 yr 23 hours ago, PierreJ said: Panels in different orientations in parallel is not a problem. If they were in series then that would have been a mistake. See the attached case study for an explanation. east-west-solar-paper.pdf 172.28 kB · 4 downloads Thanks Pierre, interesting reading which makes sense. I had my system installed with 9 panels facing N, 7 months ago, and I was considering adding 4 panels E and 4 panels W to increase the generating hours. I will monitor it for full 12 months period to understand better the capacity vs my needs and decide accordingly.
November 21, 20214 yr On 2021/01/24 at 10:36 AM, David27 said: I am planing on using the Multiplus ii 5Kva 48V , is this the one you are refering to (5kVA Multi...?) So then I will need 4x Pylontech batteries..?. If I sacrifice the A/C's, then the 2 batteries will be suitable.?? The 2 batteries would work but you would need to monitor your consumption. Also it is recommended for to not over-draw on your batteries, ideally a DoD (Depth of Discharge) to about max 30% remaining would be good, if you can raise it, the better. This will make your batteries last longer.
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