Moffat

You will have to give us more info - e.g. do you plan to run the geyser and/or AC at night (i.e. from the battery)? For how long will you be running these power-hungry devices? What size element does your geyser have, and what is it's capacity (liters)? Also, are you planning on remaining connected to the grid, or do you plan to go off-grid in the future? For how long do you plan to be able to be "autonomous" (off grid due to power outage, cable theft, etc.)
I have 2 x 10.65kWh Sun-Batt (rebranded Eenovance) batteries connected to my 12kW Sunsynk inverter, and with these I can power my geyser for one hour from the batteries, and run my full normal household consumption for 2 consecutive days without grid power and cloudy sky, and still have enough battery capacity left for a third day without the geyser if I nurse my consumption - but our household is only my wife and I, and we can go without a lot of what most people would consider "necessary" consumption in an emergency... So, IMHO you would need at least 10kWh of battery capacity per 24 hour day to have a normal happy household.
I concur with @Mattyboy - I also prefer the larger batteries, but having two batteries does provide a measure of redundancy - you could still limp on with only one 5kWh battery if the other one packs up, but with only 1 large battery you will be totally without power if the grid fails on a cloudy, rainy day... best to get two large ones if at all possible 😁

@BillyBob to be honest solar as a rule, more so batteries can be quite the rabbit hole. What would happen if your battery packed up, would you have some money lying around to be able to immediately replace that size of battery? The other side of the coin is having multiple 5kw batteries such as FreedomWon or Pylontech and if one in the pack gives you issues you may be able to hobble along and reduce your loads whilst nursing the other remain batteries. Still again, there's the issues of ensuring that you have enough panels and your inverter has the capability to fully charge your batteries as well as ensuring that the individual cells in each battery pack get fully balanced regularly.
1. So to buy 1 x large battery bank or;
2. To buy several in a pack; is the question.
Liquidity, ability to monitor the batteries will inevitably help you in your decision making process. Am sure others here with more experience, will chime in with their knowledge and expertise and experiences.

I got some good news this morning regarding the claim rejection. The insurance company internal claims department inform both the client and myself that the claim would be honored. They will appoint an construction company that could start the work ASAP all that is left now the access amount must be paid to the construction company when they start with the repairs. As 1 condition the generator transfer switch with all wiring needs to be removed from the main db within a week unless the owner can commission a V-0-0 generator that he is not prepared to do on such short notice.
I contacted the IE that did the original installation and who also supplied the COC and asked him to remove the transfer switch all the wiring and supply a new supplementary COC stating that generator was removed and needs to be done at his cost. So all good there.
Hopefully the building contractor can start as soon as Tuesday as there is quite extensive damage to the corridor ceiling the kitchen ceiling and some trusses in the roof cavity also needs replacement. The inside of the house would need to be painted. So all and all a good outcome and a win for the client.

I have pulled the Triger .. I installed Felicity T-Rex , it is 100% silent without fans , only massive heat sink and provide similar Features to Deye and Solis

Looks like one would have to upgrade to the 12kW Solis, as per the post of @Powerforum Store above, to get a screen.

I think the background to my needing local redundancy is that when you have internet connectivity issues, you may lose data either over the days internet is down or within the day when data is down, hence the thought of locally having data being saved as well.

My only gripe with the software, which may not be unique to the Solis is that I would love these inverters, by default having the option for built-in ability to gather information in respect of all functions (pv production, loads, battery info etc). This would greatly help in the event that internet is down. I also see an opportunity to have the datalogger on this and all inverters having the ability to have a TFT card to store data locally as a redundancy whilst other data is upload to the Solis Cloud. On the whole I have been very happy with my purchase with issues being battery related, not inverter related, so would definitely recommend it given as you have also noted if offers better specs and pricing.

@display_Name Also include in your research Solis 12kW inverter. The price is cheaper here on the PowerforumStore but also look at the specs.

Keep in mind that all the power used in your house will have to travel back to the main DB in the house, as your inverter will now be providing the power that used to come from the grid. So, the PV panels would feed the inverter/MPPT in the garage (around 350V - 400V DC), and the inverter will charge the batteries with DC (48V - 56V DC depending on your system) and also supply the AC (230V) to the house. If the house was originally wired from the incoming grid to the main house DB to the secondary garage DB (with the main switch and earth leakage switch in the main DB), then power will likely now flow from the inverter in the garage to the house and back to the garage DB (for whatever loads you have in your garage) - so, as stated by @TaliaB and @Denns you will most likely need to replace the garage DB to house DB cabling with larger wire. Also keep in mind that you will probably need to install an export limiting CT coil where your grid power enters your main DB if your hybrid inverter requires this, so ideally the inverter and main DB should not be too far apart.
Good luck with your installation, and keep us updated 😊

My 6 year old Solis 4g grid tied also could show the accumulated output over the life or for the month to date on the screen. Bear in mind being grid tied it was only on during the day. It also did not even have a fan. Never missed a beat and I have the highest regard for Solis inverters. Buying new I would choose the Solis. One of our forum members partly sponsored me to sell me his 5kW when he upgraded 😀

@display_Name Also include in your research Solis 12kW inverter. The price is cheaper here on the PowerforumStore but also look at the specs.

Of interest to me would be that when loadshedding began, I and other users were on the receiving negative end. Now that I have made a plan to ensure continued power, it's now being made punitive. Why always me and other users to make concessions, that are often half-baked? Was there ever an inclusive consultative process then, will there now be an inclusive consultative process or it will only involve the few that are influential and powerful?

Though the battery has a 200A max continuous discharge, in the Solis settings you can still choose not to have the inverter use the full max charge and discharge current and set it to lower levels, which is what I have done within my setup in order to try conserve my battery. Am intending to add another 2 but still will not allow the inverter (using the settings) to draw at maximum for purposes of enabling battery longevity.

Unfortunately the Utilities (Eskom and others) want to have their cake and eat it and have the choice to bill on the higher scale, whilst taking away choice from the end-user. The rightful thing is to re-write laws to incorporate different rules/needs of consumers in conjunction with the involvement of end-users or installers to ensure their side (Eskom/Utility) of the system is not compromised and also that customers are not prejudiced. However, that is always wishful thinking, sadly.

@Moffat I would agree that if your system is in any way whatsoever physically connected to the grid then they (eskom/muni) can and probably should make rules to a degree especially on the safety and technical side to protect network integrity. But they should not be overstepping their boundaries.

I also think this is where a lot of confusion comes in...
The definition of grid-tie and partially off-Grid and full off-grid systems.

There are several types of solar connections/systems
1 - No solar - only an eskom connection on it's own DB - Needs COC
2 - Pure grid tie system (e.g. solis grid-tie inverters and or microinverters with no batteries e.g. Solis S6-GR1P ) - Needs COC
3 - Grid tie hybrid systems (e.g. sunsynk, deye, solis S6 etc) those that can grid-tie and have batteries and can run with grid outages) - Needs COC
4 - Semi off-grid systems e.g. (growatt es5000spf) connected to the main DB that's connected to eskom/muni with bypass and feeding power to the inverter from the eskom/muni circuits. - Needs COC
5 - Full off-grid systems (can be any inverter types) that is Physically NOT CONNECTED AT ALL to grid/eskom/muni and has its own COC and Earthing system.
There is a difference between choosing to Export or NOT EXPORT or choosing to be Semi off-grid or Full off-grid physically from eskom/muni.
For the least hassle I personally would choose a combination of (Option1 AND Option 4 physically separated from each other) if you do not want any of the eskom/muni hassles and still be within the safety regulations and laws.

I think Eskom/Utility should essentially not continually charge at a higher scale monthly or however time frame they deem at a higher scale. Given that if an inverter "accidentally exports" to the Utility/Eskom this may cause grid instability as happened in Europe when there was a huge power outage across multiple nations, they should ensure that if one chooses the option NOT TO EXPORT, there must definitely be a meter that ensures exporting does not happen and this may come at the cost to the installer/home of a once-off cost for that meter. This thing of wanting to make investments punitive by the Utility/Eskom is just not on.

Am not in Jo'burg nor am I even in SA and to be honest faced the same dilemma of whether to choose supply from a local reseller (being in Zimbabwe) or buying direct from SA (on Powerforum Store). The price difference was almost double or even more from local suppliers. I then bit the bullet, hugged a tree, in lieu of touching wood and bought in SA. Thus far I have had an issue with my battery but got exceptional online support from Freedom Won. My inverter has not had issues to date (hugging tree again) and am praying this continues to be a good experience and journey having opted to buy a Solis S6 6kw Pro hybrid inverter. Am now looking to add another battery or two hopefully soon to go up to 15kw. Panels however in spite of the exorbitant cost, I have opted to buy locally so I can maximise on warranty and reduce risk of micro-cracks during transportation and then having to be stuck.
How averse to risk and cost is definitely something I guess @esmail-kassir will now have to contend with himself.

@esmail-kassir see this comparison https://solar.co.za/deye-vs-sunsynk-hybrid-inverter-comparison?add-to-cart=29340&srsltid=AfmBOoqpxLuhWhokJLW5Fg6xHnwv-kVEJVDcG2p4Ec_prMk3GljOC4OE
There was a website that at one-time I used to compare the 3-inverters but can seem to find it now. It had a link where you could add the inverter-type you wanted to compare. Eventually I went with the Solis S6 because of price over the 5kw Deye and Sunsynk. Also of importance would be how much granular information you seek to get from the inverter and it's local and web app as a way to help you in your decision-making process apart from price.
Battery compatibility across the brands is not too far apart, so that may be another area or aspect to consider to help in your decision. Best of luck.

Hi Moffat,
I spoke to a sales person who is big in this industry. He said just buy Victron MPPT. Then all sorted. I used this unit with a Blunova battery for only backup during loadshedding. Was fortunate to buy a house with a complete solar system. Reason for the sale.
Regards

My 2-cents would be to answer the following questions:
Where are you based?
In your location do you have several certified and qualified installers for the inverter you may choose
Are you someone who is a bit technical or likes to tinker with settings
How reliable is your internet connectivity
How far are you from your reseller in case of issues and support
I have a Solis inverter and thus far on the whole am happy with it, though the support from my installer has been sadly been underpar and have had to get support online. My CT was installed in the wrong place (within the inverter) so am not able to get info regarding full system power use nor have excess energy pushed to non-essentials therefore.
If you are in an area where internet connectivity is a challenge, then an inverter where you can change settings on an LCD display is recommended, in my view. Also look at support for a battery wherein in case of issues you can get physically close support from battery reseller and a battery that allows you to be able to read information directly of the battery either using RS485/CAN/RS232 and ensure you get the cable and not just getting information via the inverter.
The greatest and most important part of any purchase is the aftersales support and warranty so you are not left in the dark should something happen. That said, I would still choose my Solis S6 as a first choice.

The guy is really talking about what I understand to be a grid-tied system - inverter & panels but no battery. Batteries significantly change the ROI. Maybe such systems are becoming more popular in SA now that the likelihood of load shedding is so reduced. IDK. I bought a system with a battery, and the battery is the most expensive part of the system.
He makes another good point: The economic worth of the system to you depends on the price of electricity where you live. IDK what Eskom tariffs look like, but here in Johannesburg the default post-paid tariff carries fixed fees of just over a grand a month for a 60A single phase feed. You are in for a grand before you use a single kWh of electricity. But we pay less per kWh than folks in Cape Town do. So there is some maths for the purchaser to do.

And this is where a good installer comes in. A good installer will discuss your desired outcome, understand your current situation, guide you as regards likely savings. As in so many business areas, there is the bakkie brigade. They will quote a low price, slap some panels on your roof and an inverter in a corner. And that's it. The job may or may not meet safety requirements (that is to say it may or may not be legal) and should you want support after the install they will be unwilling and/or unable to provide that. (I have seen several properties in my neighbourhood with South facing panels - I find it hard to believe that those installers were doing the best for their client).

Other installers will take the time I already mentioned, will stay in touch with you for a while and monitor your system.

Then you have the rental companies who are attractive to the people who don't want to lay out a large wedge of cash and who don't walk to discuss technicalities. Those guys are not my cup of tea, but they are attractive to some.

A thing I notice in my neighbourhood is a change in conversation. A year ago it was that they could make me register my system after I've run out of ammunition. Now suddenly people are wanting to register. IDK why, my system was registered last year. So now the quality of the installation is done and really we should be doing what COCT enforces - you register first, then you install.

This is all about the installer, but an installer with skills and knowledge and paper work (can sign a COC, can do the registration or has access to somebody who can) is worth something and so is their time.

So for me this is like buying a "1600 cc car". Well there's whatever is the cheapest on the market right now, and there's the BMW and the AUDI. There's what is going to look flash in your driveway, and there's what is going to give you years of service - they may be the same, but it's not guaranteed and if you buy on price then you will get one (more likely the first) or the other but not both.

Too many variables beyond the price of the component.

I thought the guys who installed my system were good, and to be fair they provided support three or four years down the line.

Then I thought the guy who did my registration with the City was good.

Then I found out that my panels were not earthed - despite this being shown on the drawing submitted to the City. So my system was never compliant - despite the registration that was obtained.

The cost of a good system is more than the cost of the components.

To return to my opening point. I bought my system at a time when load shedding was on the rise - though not as bad as it would get. I work from home. We buy food in bulk and fill the deep freeze. We sailed through stage 6 with no hiccups. That's worth something too. I can't put a rands and cents value on it, but it has value. By one set of calculations I still have not recovered the cost of my system (we were not using a lot of electricity even before we went solar, because we are careful) but factor in those soft values (which may not apply any more) and there is working from home V commuting every day. Or working from home V the cost of a trolley inverter and new batteries every two years. No, I can't work it out either. My point is that the ROI proposition has changed and so the type of system we buy might have changed.

So I think there's no template/matrix to be drawn up. Every client has different expectations, and the installer makes a difference. There are some installers who use this forum who, and I have some personal experience in this regard, provide a very complete service. You have other guys who will wait until the money has cleared their bank account, slap some equipment around your house and disappear. You will have DIYers.

I met one of the latter who told me the cost of going off grid was 40 grand. He bought bits and piece from Builders and did it all himself. Who knows what he has and how good a job it does and if it is legal. And who knows whether or not he would have done better if he'd got somebody with a clue to provide a system for him.

TLDR. I don't think it's just about the cost and quality of the components.

This what I can comment on if that helps.

Do they replace/repair the battery;
According to the warranty terms it is at their discretion whether to repair or replace. Thus far they have opted to repair my batteries each time I had an issue.

What's their time frame if repairing;
When I spoke to the tech the other day the turn around can be from 1 week to 3 weeks depending on what they need to do.
E.G.
Re-balance of cells was said should be about a week
The rebuild and replacement of bad cells about 3 weeks

Warranty - from real world experiences
So far both instances I had was covered under warranty.
1st was a temp sensor that was faulty, battery was send in and sensor was replaced. (3 weeks as this was during all of the public holidays during Easter so this caused some external delays)
Currently have 2 batteries send back for repairs after the tech came out to the site and pulled the logs to make sure what happened to the batteries.

After-sales support (in person and online) - for firmware updates if need be
This will depend on your installer I think, had to get a firmware update a while back and this was done by my installer with them remotely logging in to the setup via the installers laptop.
I've dealt directly with some of the technician as well and they had no problem with me contacting them directly as my installer actually directed me to speak to them directly regarding my more technical questions I had at that time that my installer could not answer.

Ability to have battery communicate with a desktop or laptop using the CAN/RS485/RS232 port independent of the inverter for accurate readings
The R100 I have uses the Pace BMS so I'm reading my battery info via Home Assistant and a RS232 and ESP32 link for individual battery monitoring.

How long the company has been operating for and hope they keep going for a long time
No idea but my installer has been operating for 10 years and said during his time dealing with them they have not had any issue with warranties.

The trajectory of this discussion is very much welcome, in my view and makes sense especially given there's experts here who know how to calculate all if not most of the variables and also we have people who have "real-world" experiences of what was put on paper vs what they received and what they are experiencing in both the short term and long term. As someone who in my initial dive into Solar was absolutely reliant on installers and was willing to pay top-dollar, I still got my fingers and whole hand and body burnt and taken for a ride.
Now with experience am always willing to learn and also share my 2-cents. Installers who "supply and fix/fit" are also in this trade for making a living and making money and some are quite unscrupulous and this forum is a great help in correcting misconceptions and flagging also fly-by-night thieves. So am all for this idea of sharing, bantering, learning and re-learning.

@Bobster. At law both may be at fault (person who signed CoC & Owner) depending on circumstances such as:
Did owner engage the person who signed the CoC from the Authorised Board that certifies such persons?;
Did owner verify that person who signed the CoC is certified with the local Authorising Board?;
...if the non of the above was done, it then warrants further investigation as to whether this was a pre-meditated effort to dupe a prospective buyer, which is difficult to prove, in any case.
Sadly this may result in some penalties on both the person signing the CoC and the property seller, but at most a slap on the wrist should suffice on the part of the seller, but on the person signing the CoC, it then goes to the heart of misrepresentation and fraud.
That said, it all depends on how far the new property owner wishes to pursue the whole matter, "in toto". For the avoidance of doubt for forumites it will be important therefore to ensure that any CoC you receive is from a bonafide individual who is legally authorised and is STILL certified, as some may have been de-registered as happens with lawyers through the Law Society, hence insulating oneself from potential litigation as a fraudster or co-conspirator.
All that said, engaging in conversation with the owner may avert all unnecessary stress of the unknown to reach an amicable resolution before anything escalates to litigation levels and also doing due diligence on person who did the CoC.

If you're on good footing with the neighbour across the road, maybe ask him, for testing purposes to turn off his inverter, for 10 minutes while you and him check whether this quietens your affected devices.... if it does, the supplier of his inverter would probably have to get involved...