Boerseun

Ok are you thinking of changing to Hubble?

Hi Brani. 
 
What solar system setup do you have? 

Hi Achmat. 
 
I contacted Segen solar yesterday to supply a client with an Axpert VM3 paired with a US3000C and they will not allow me to make the purchase as they do not allow pairing a 5kw inverter with a Pylontech battery that can only deliver 1.75kw. 
 
Speak to Full Circle Solar who have been around for very long and Paul will tell you this as well. 
 
If you are confident that Pylontech will honor a warranty claim with an incorrectly designed system then that’s great however they can contact you and ask you what size inverter you have and what battery etc. See quote as requested. 
 
Pylontech may contact You for further information regarding a defect. Pylontech may require You to complete root analysis testing of the Product to provide evidence supporting the claim. Final verification of the claim will be made by Pylontech.

Hi Tariq. 
 
I think you answered your question in your post. 
 
So if Pylontech determine that the load was too much on the battery then they won’t honour the warranty. 

Hi Achmat. 
 
If Pylontech’s BMS was perfect and worked as it should then they would allow you to pair a single Pylontech US3000C with an 8kw Sunsynk but they don’t allow this and they will not honour a warranty in this example. 
 
See attached warranty. 
Pylontech_product_warranty_US serie-EU_2020 Oct.pdf

I disagree. It's not only discharge, but charge too. On a cloudy day, with 50-60% cloud cover moving over lethargically, I have a limited window of opportunity to get my batteries charged. The fact (and reality) that I can charge at 1C (whilst the skies are clear) means that I can stuff electrons into the battery faster during these time-limited windows. If I were limited in charge rate, then I couldn't use it as effectively. There is definitely a use-case for a strong charge-rate, even in a domestic situation.

Hubble’s BMS logs entire history of faults or over current etc. When connected to the RIOT, Hubble can remotely view battery parameters. 

 
Regarding BSL, the max discharge current with 2 x 5.1kwh is 210A which is easily paired with an 8kw Sunsynk which can only draw 185A max. So whether the BMS records faults or not, the inverter cannot damage the battery in any event. Same goes for Hubble. Unfortunately in this scenario, you would need 4 x UP5000 paired with an 8kw Sunsynk for a warranty to be valid. This is just unnecessary cost. 

 
If end users believe that a C rating isn’t important then a question which needs to be asked is, why does Pylontech not warranty 1 x UP5000 which is a 4.8kwh battery when installed with any 5kw inverter even though it can deliver 200A for 15s. You would need 2 x UP5000 for the warranty to be valid. Hubble and BSL don’t  have those issues. 
 

Hi Eugene. 
 
One thing to remember is that Pylontech will not honour a warranty when you pair 1 x 3.5kwh Pylontech with an 8kw or 5kw inverter. Reason is due to the massive return on failed batteries which forced them to change their warranty requirements. 

Warranty Returns that clients do not get their warranty honored because the batteries where over discharged once (other Suppliers honor their warranties if the batteries were over discharged) BMS Failure if US3000C Batteries were discharged above maximum continuous discharge Client has to foot the bill for the BMS repair and the warranty on the battery becomes void Warranty becomes void if there was no Communication between the battery and the inverter Like with older Axpert based installations almost none of the other manufacturers require coms between the battery and the inverter Warranty is void if you don't have the Recommended amount of Pylontech batteries in your installation and so the list goes on there is a lot more reasons why I dislike the battery the fact that they claim it is a 1c Battery but it is not Their new US5000 only has a 5 year warranty with tons of terms and conditions with relatively bad cycle life and specs also not a true 1C battery The fact that the battery still uses old LFP Technology I can go on but I think those are good reasons.
 

Hi RyanG
How has Hubble failed to impress you regarding their approach to problems. 
 
Reason I ask is because I stand by the brand by being one of their registered installers and if you can give feedback on exactly how they can improve their service on approach to problems or anything else you may think that’s of concern then I’ll be glad to address this with the directors. 
 
Regards

Hi Ryan. 
 
Regarding Hubble, they really do provide better support than Pylontech. Bear in mind that even though it’s a local company, their cells are made by BYD which in my opinion is far better than Pylontech. BYD has also been around 15 years longer than Pylontech. You have the 8kw Sunsynk so even if you had 4 x US3000C’s, you would only be able to draw 7000w from an 8000w inverter. If you had 2 x AM2 Hubble’s, you can easily draw 8000w from your Sunsynk. 
 
 

I own a Sunsynk and Hubble Combo Yet we all Know Sunsynk is the Best 🙃  and I own Hubble batteries and I am pleased with their performance but... I would have Bought BSLB if they had stock available they did not and I bought the Hubbles and I am very Happy I did and at the moment those are my top "Choices" My choice ...why some people pop a cornea when someone says something good about Hubble Or any other Brand Unless its not Pylontech is very strange everyone has a right to opinion and projecting ones negativity onto other is rather crappy so if you do't Like Hubble its fine that is your opinion I dont like Pylontech and thats my opinion have done tons of research on the batteries and in my opinion I have made a great choice. I also dont see why the forum is just about one brand here there is a lot of support for other brands here even those terrible Victron Inverters has a good following here and the forum is a great resource. 

So @Brani Based on your Vast Knowledge and experience please enlighten us in your Opinion what you Ideal Product is when it Comes to Lithium Batteries and Inverter systems I would love to hear your opinion Clearly it is not Sunsynk Inverters and definitely not Hubble Batteries (Ps Have you got experience with these products?) and if you feel that Sunsynk and Hubble is such terrible products please elaborate on that obviously facts based on your experience with the products I am very keen to hear why you have such a great dislike in these products I mean there are continuous negative reposes from you on these..... I am very clear why I dont Like Pylontech and prefer to try newer products on the market I have had my share of bad experiences with Pylontech Axpert flavours and variations Inifinisolar Victron Microcare MLT etc..  and the absolute pain you have to go through to get a warranty repair on pylontech not for the fainthearted .... however You know my opinion Please give us yours 

So @Brani Based on your Vast Knowledge and experience please enlighten us in your Opinion what you Ideal Product is when it Comes to Lithium Batteries and Inverter systems I would love to hear your opinion Clearly it is not Sunsynk Inverters and definitely not Hubble Batteries (Ps Have you got experience with these products?) and if you feel that Sunsynk and Hubble is such terrible products please elaborate on that obviously facts based on your experience with the products I am very keen to hear why you have such a great dislike in these products I mean there are continuous negative reposes from you on these..... I am very clear why I dont Like Pylontech and prefer to try newer products on the market I have had my share of bad experiences with Pylontech Axpert flavours and variations Inifinisolar Victron Microcare MLT etc..  and the absolute pain you have to go through to get a warranty repair on pylontech not for the fainthearted .... however You know my opinion Please give us yours 

You sound very mature and knowledgeable. I’m sure you will be invaluable to the rest of the members and guests seeing that you have a vast experience in the renewable energy field. 

I own them and I’m happy with them. 

I can confidently tell you, after dealing with Hubble, that they really provide a great product and service. Their AM range of batteries have BYD (est 1995) cells which are tried and tested. 
 
As an installer, we deal directly with Hubble, however we definitely don’t deal directly with Pylontech. As I mentioned in a previous thread, 2 x AM2’s BMS’s failed and Hubble’s engineers suspected a voltage surge which damaged the BMS, however without any questions asked, they were replaced. I think that says a lot. 
 
Yes Hubble haven’t been around for very long however all companies started off being new. Regarding Pylontech (est 2009), I don’t like that they can’t produce a 1C battery (due to cost) and I know many members here think that’s insignificant, but it really is in a couple of ways. 
 
Whether Hubble will be around in 10 years time, I think so, as they are looking into Lithium Titanate chemistry. They are also designing their own BMS to work with second life cells which will be much cheaper. Exciting stuff as China, America and Europe don’t want second life cells so it will be dumped into Africa. 
 
 

I don't see where  @Leshen is knocking down other products, at least not in this thread.
 

That I am aware of.  I thought we were talking about solar Energy Storage Systems here, where energy density is not much of an issue.
It is still not clear to me why you dislike Pylons because they "still uses old LFP Technology" - it is the same as your beloved Hubble I believe?

I would Not Choose Pylontech too many horror stories on battery failure and warranty problems in the past couple of Months besides you require a lot of them in parallel to cover the warranty and a whole host of requirements that could possibly make your warranty void like no Coms No Earthing on the battery case etc 
You have other options Like BSLB pretty stable good battery with not too many complications Claims 6000 Cycles @80 %  also claims to be 1C, Revov if you dont mind used EV batteries Freedom Won is also a option very pricey and only gives 4000 cycles @80% afaik Blue Nova however they have some issues with their BMS so Does Revov the other option is Hubble Lithium also a great option no negative things about the battery 1C @100% DOD Good after sales support (local) not fussy when it comes the warranty and then you have Solar MD not Crazy about it personally looks to home made and Shoto .5C Battery and so on and so forth but I personally have the Hubble Lithium AM2 batteries and I am very pleased with their performance.

I would Not Choose Pylontech too many horror stories on battery failure and warranty problems in the past couple of Months besides you require a lot of them in parallel to cover the warranty and a whole host of requirements that could possibly make your warranty void like no Coms No Earthing on the battery case etc 
You have other options Like BSLB pretty stable good battery with not too many complications Claims 6000 Cycles @80 %  also claims to be 1C, Revov if you dont mind used EV batteries Freedom Won is also a option very pricey and only gives 4000 cycles @80% afaik Blue Nova however they have some issues with their BMS so Does Revov the other option is Hubble Lithium also a great option no negative things about the battery 1C @100% DOD Good after sales support (local) not fussy when it comes the warranty and then you have Solar MD not Crazy about it personally looks to home made and Shoto .5C Battery and so on and so forth but I personally have the Hubble Lithium AM2 batteries and I am very pleased with their performance.

I have 3x US3000Bs with my 5K Sunsynk, they work well, but if I did my install over today, I would have gone for Hubble AM-2s or BSL BATT (Bulls) battery. They have far higher charge / discharge rates than the Pylontech US series, clearly a superior product. And yes, the AM-2 and AM-3 are wall mount.

And here is my little 5K Sunsynk charging my 3x Pylontech (0.5C) batteries today, 5247 Watts total including load, battery charge at 92 plus amps. If I only had one Pylontech, it would have been restricted to 37 amps, (1776W) max.
Hubble's AM-2 and AM-3 are 1C batteries, able to charge and discharge at far greater rates than Pylontech's US series. 
 

Nice explanation. Too bad some won’t want to understand what you mean. 
Hubble’s BMS is rated at 125A. Cells can easily deliver 150A however it’s limited to 100A. For this to be achieved, all internals have to handle this high current draw so thicker connectors, cabling etc etc. In other words, better quality internals.
The average individual doesn’t know when the grid is down and they often switch on a kettle and a microwave together and any 5kwh 0.5C battery’s BMS will shut it down and place the inverter in fault mode. Seen it all too often. But hey, you can always just add more Pylontechs provided your budget allows it. 

@bobmabena Hubble batteries are Great an rated at 1c also they are compatible with the RIOt which gives you all the monitoring info you can possibly need you can parallel 15 units and their after sales support is pretty good I would avoid Pylontech too many issues and warrranty repairs and returns a major headache Revov I don't have a lot of experience with but they are mostly secondhand EV batteries that have already been cycled and have lost 20% of their original capacity. On the inverter Sunynk is the only real choice at the moment I have been running completely off grid with 2 x Hubble 5.5 KW batteries and a 5 KW Sunsynk  I run a standard geyser and a few home appliances without any problems my Mono Solar array is oversized at 6KW but it still generates enough to keep me going on rainy and cloudy days I have not yet run out of battery power and generally only cycle my batteries down to 40% .