Powerwall 2 - cheaper than Eskom!

[shanghailoz]

Powerwall 2 has been announced @ $5500 for 14KWhr of daily usage, and 10 year lifetime guarantee at 100% cycling.

 

14KWhr x 365 x 10 = 51,100KW lifetime.

51,100 / 5500$ = $0.10c / KWhr or R1.4 at current $ / R rates.

Guess a lot more people will be going offgrid... (given grid tie is unfeasible here in Cape Town due to the daily fee's)

 

www.tesla.com/powerwall

 

[Chris Hobson]

My neighbour wanted to install a Powerwall and was stumped by a requirement that the Powerwall had to be in a situation where it could be powered by the grid if needed (his explanation)  He ended up with a LG set. Can anyone confirm it true that the Powerwall cannot be used in a off-grid system? When Powerwall was first announced to much fanfare I did a quick calculation and it looked promising. Once I started to see prices quoted in Rands it quickly lost its lustre.

[shanghailoz]

Powerwall 2 can be used off-grid (according to the announcement speech made by Musk).

Was only announced yesterday, so details are a little vague still.

More here - 

https://electrek.co/2016/10/28/tesla-powerwall-2-game-changer-in-home-energy-storage-14-kwh-inverter-5500/

[___]

Powerwall is just a battery so in theory it can be used off-grid. I think the problem is that few inverters support it, and the only one I know of is the Solar Edge inverter. Which is grid tied. This might be why the only way to get a PW is gti. For now.

If you lend me a PW I'll do CCGX integration for you... :-P

Sent from my GT-I9195 using Tapatalk

[shanghailoz]

Even making the LG Resu off-grid is a pain in the ass for inverters like Victron.  Need the CCGX, and need to set the Can-bus bits for it to work.

Hopefully the Powerwall 2 is easier to integrate.

[Guest]

Few years back guys did a comparison of a powerwall and lead acid bank, apples for apples on usage.

Lead acid won hands down ito cost, plus then as Chris said, the hardware needs for a powerwall.

There appear to be some alleged T&C's that are not apparent on the marketing material. So do the homework very carefully and compare both against each other.

Musk is going even further I see, thing is, solar tiles have been available in SA for years. BUT, If he is right, it costs the same as a new roof, then it wil most definitely be a very good idea. But as with the powerwall, marketing and real life are worlds apart sometimes.

 

[Chris Hobson]

Powerwall has integrated 5 kW inverter......hmmmm. If I was on the Titanic I would have been on the last life raft (or gone down with the orchestra). I will look on in interest and let someone else be first.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Chris Hobson said:

Powerwall has integrated 5 kW inverter

So then you need two if you go off-grid ... (cwl) 

But more importantly, Axperts fans looking at powerwalls ... who would have foreseen that one coming? 

EDIT: Axpert Titanic sinking?

[Chris Hobson]

48 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

So then you need two if you go off-grid ... (cwl)

I presume that's "crying with laughter" rather than "concealed weapon licence".

My Axpert handles 95% of my load and yes the missus cannot have the oven and microwave on at the same time. 3 or 4 times a year she tests the Axpert (and my enduring love for her) and tries to see how many appliances she can put on before the inverter starts to shriek and I start to bellow shortly thereafter. I am 1kW short (at times) at the moment. Yes I know that once I have 5kW available I'll soon will want 7.5kW, but that is the nature of the beast. Certainly to start with 5 kW would do. 

It is not going to happen soon anyway. My bank manager will change colour to that normally reserved for aliens if I suggested an upgrade at this stage.

[Guest]

Serious for a moment.

Victron, obviously with the consent of the bank manager, should also be considered and may 10 to 1 be cheaper than a powerwall.

At the very least you would be buying into a track record, product available all over SA and can be, worst case, repaired locally and not buying into new tech requiring a select few to install and service it.

Anycase, powerwall's must be thoroughly researched to ensure it meets the needs, not the marketing hype around it.

[___]

7 hours ago, shanghailoz said:

Need the CCGX, and need to set the Can-bus bits for it to work.

There is a refactoring coming for the canbus stuff. Instead of having several separate services -- some of which conflicts -- it will support a number of known to work profiles. Each profile sets the required can-bus baudrate and starts the services for that profile. One of the profiles allows running the LgResu at 250kbaud, which is the same as VE.Can, allowing you to have both devices on the same can-bus.

The second feature that is coming is that on the Beaglebone (which has two can ports), you'll be able to run a different profile on each canbus.

Also, support coming for way more Li-Ion batteries, eg the FreedomWon batteries from SA.

[Noobie]

I would be pretty upset if I had bought the powerwall 1 last year only to have the powerwall 2 come out with twice the capacity.

Maybe next year there will be a powerwall 3 that will double the capacity of the powerwall 2

I am watching and waiting 

[___]

Another question though, just because it is 5500USD doesn't mean it will only cost 80k ZAR.Google says there is no import duty, but I'm pretty sure VAT will apply and then there will also be the actual shipping cost, so I doubt this will cost less than 100k.

100k/51100 = R1.96/kwh. That's good, but doesn't beat <600kwh domestic rate in Cape Town (presently R1.76/kwh), nor does it compare too well with Lead Crystal, 200Ah * 50% DoD * 12V * 3000 cycles = 3600kwh, R7100/3600kwh = R1.97.

http://www.solarsolved.co.za/index.php/products/batteries/lead-crystal-batteries/200a-h-lead-acid-detail

But... I must say, a sexy looking battery like that, light weight, at LC prices... we're finally getting somewhere!

[shanghailoz]

Tesla is local now, or at least their rep's have local numbers now.

 

 

Dear Laurence, Thank you for your interest in the Tesla Powerwall. I have just tried to contact you via telephone to discuss the next steps of purchasing a Powerwall and to answer any questions you may have. Please let me know a convenient time to call you back, otherwise you can reach me between 09.00 and 17.00 at the following number: +27(0) 21 300 2397.   I will look forward to hearing from you. Danielle Savvas | HQ Sales Associate Burgemeester Stramanweg 122 | Amsterdam 1101 EN | The Netherlands e [email protected] www.tesla.com | www.tesla.com/en_GB/powerwall  The content of this message is the proprietary and confidential property of Tesla Energy, and should be treated as such. If you are not the intended recipient and have received this message in error, please delete this message from your computer system and notify me immediately by reply e-mail. Any unauthorized use or distribution of the content of this message is prohibited. Thank you. Please consider the environment before printing this email

[Guest]

I THINK Mike here on the forum is also a registered Tesla installer.

[SilverNodashi]

On 10/29/2016 at 1:02 PM, Chris Hobson said:

I presume that's "crying with laughter" rather than "concealed weapon licence".

My Axpert handles 95% of my load and yes the missus cannot have the oven and microwave on at the same time. 3 or 4 times a year she tests the Axpert (and my enduring love for her) and tries to see how many appliances she can put on before the inverter starts to shriek and I start to bellow shortly thereafter. I am 1kW short (at times) at the moment. Yes I know that once I have 5kW available I'll soon will want 7.5kW, but that is the nature of the beast. Certainly to start with 5 kW would do. 

It is not going to happen soon anyway. My bank manager will change colour to that normally reserved for aliens if I suggested an upgrade at this stage.

You know you could buy your wive's love for a mere R10k, right?

[SilverNodashi]

On 10/30/2016 at 6:52 PM, plonkster said:

Another question though, just because it is 5500USD doesn't mean it will only cost 80k ZAR.Google says there is no import duty, but I'm pretty sure VAT will apply and then there will also be the actual shipping cost, so I doubt this will cost less than 100k.

100k/51100 = R1.96/kwh. That's good, but doesn't beat <600kwh domestic rate in Cape Town (presently R1.76/kwh), nor does it compare too well with Lead Crystal, 200Ah * 50% DoD * 12V * 3000 cycles = 3600kwh, R7100/3600kwh = R1.97.

http://www.solarsolved.co.za/index.php/products/batteries/lead-crystal-batteries/200a-h-lead-acid-detail

But... I must say, a sexy looking battery like that, light weight, at LC prices... we're finally getting somewhere!

Import costs (i.e. freight / shipping / whatever) and VAT is added, and depending on which freight company, 10% handling fee as well. And, then top top if off, you can't used it with any inverter or MPPT charger, it has to be solar edge which is very expensive. Look at R280k upward for this. 

[shanghailoz]

On 11/4/2016 at 4:03 AM, SilverNodashi said:

Import costs (i.e. freight / shipping / whatever) and VAT is added, and depending on which freight company, 10% handling fee as well. And, then top top if off, you can't used it with any inverter or MPPT charger, it has to be solar edge which is very expensive. Look at R280k upward for this. 

We're talking about the v2, not the v1

[Chris Hobson]

On 03/11/2016 at 10:01 PM, SilverNodashi said:

You know you could buy your wive's love for a mere R10k, right?

You mean a paralleled Axpert? Not so easy in my case. Wall space may be an issue and with a 260Ah battery bank I am right on the minimum size of a battery bank so that would need to be enlarged if there were two inverters. Since the bank is now about 500 days old I probably need to replace them. 

My idea is to eventually supply my staff with solar and the secondhand batteries can finish their days on that system if they have any life in them at that stage. So now the R10k looks more like R60k.

 

Just a question Silver. You have probably done dozens of parallel installs. Does it matter if one inverter has no panels attached to it? I know somewhere here on the forum someone was having hassles with settings.

[SilverNodashi]

10 hours ago, Chris Hobson said:

You mean a paralleled Axpert? Not so easy in my case. Wall space may be an issue and with a 260Ah battery bank I am right on the minimum size of a battery bank so that would need to be enlarged if there were two inverters. Since the bank is now about 500 days old I probably need to replace them. 

My idea is to eventually supply my staff with solar and the secondhand batteries can finish their days on that system if they have any life in them at that stage. So now the R10k looks more like R60k.

 

Just a question Silver. You have probably done dozens of parallel installs. Does it matter if one inverter has no panels attached to it? I know somewhere here on the forum someone was having hassles with settings.

damn, your wife is expensive!

And, yes, I meant add a nother Axpert. I have done quite a few Axpert installations where one inverter doesn't have panels. And it doesn't give the problems that was posted elsewhere on the forum.