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Inverter to run Power Tools


Terence0424

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Hello People! 
I am hoping to get some advice on what to buy > Inverter & Battery please.
 

This is what I need to run on an Inverter :

2 x 550W 220V
1 x 710W Router (3.2A) 
These will never run at the same time.

I have a CNC machine and I am fearful to just buy an Inverter and then it can't run my machine.

The machine has a 710W Palm Router & 3 Stepper Motors. I doubt the stepper motors would be of any concern as they are small and run off the small computer box that drives the machine.

I did some research and people say it is sometimes a problem with the inrush surge on Induction motors on the Inverters... Do you think I will be ok with a 3kw Inverter?

Considering that there is a 2 x Wattage surge at startup that gives me 1420w and I plan to get a 3kw Inverter (3000w)
Some people online say an induction motor can spike up to 7 x its wattage but I am not sure this little palm router will do that...?

Basically I need to buy an Inverter that we will be good running the above.
The 2 x 550w motors would be nice to run but not essential while there is Loadshedding.

What is your best suggestion please?
Is the 3kw Mecer with a good Battery an option?
Is there a Trolley backup system out there that can run this?

I can't install this and I can't put Panels on our rental roof so I am happy just charging a Battery and using this guy while Loadshedding happens.
 

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3 hours ago, Terence0424 said:

Hello People! 
I am hoping to get some advice on what to buy > Inverter & Battery please.
 

This is what I need to run on an Inverter :

2 x 550W 220V
1 x 710W Router (3.2A) 
These will never run at the same time.

I have a CNC machine and I am fearful to just buy an Inverter and then it can't run my machine.

The machine has a 710W Palm Router & 3 Stepper Motors. I doubt the stepper motors would be of any concern as they are small and run off the small computer box that drives the machine.

I did some research and people say it is sometimes a problem with the inrush surge on Induction motors on the Inverters... Do you think I will be ok with a 3kw Inverter?

Considering that there is a 2 x Wattage surge at startup that gives me 1420w and I plan to get a 3kw Inverter (3000w)
Some people online say an induction motor can spike up to 7 x its wattage but I am not sure this little palm router will do that...?

Basically I need to buy an Inverter that we will be good running the above.
The 2 x 550w motors would be nice to run but not essential while there is Loadshedding.

What is your best suggestion please?
Is the 3kw Mecer with a good Battery an option?
Is there a Trolley backup system out there that can run this?

I can't install this and I can't put Panels on our rental roof so I am happy just charging a Battery and using this guy while Loadshedding happens.
 

No problem to run any. Once any one is running you should be able to even start the 2nd one. 

If it is a problem the router you can always run on reduced power like with a speeds control. I use a 3kW control unit and can even start my biggish steel cutter with a 2.4kW Axpert. 

https://www.bobshop.co.za/item/584769067/4000W_220V_AC_SCR_Voltage_Regulator_Dimmer_Electric_Motor_Speed_Controller.html

I start 0.75kW induction motors with a 1.5kW portable inverter. My Makita router works fine even running at full power. 

Edited by Scorp007
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9 minutes ago, Scorp007 said:

No problem to run any. Once any one is running you should be able to even start the 2nd one. 

If it is a problem the router you can always run on reduced power like with a speeds control. I use a 3kW control unit and can even start my biggish steel cutter with a 2.4kW Axpert. 

https://www.bobshop.co.za/item/584769067/4000W_220V_AC_SCR_Voltage_Regulator_Dimmer_Electric_Motor_Speed_Controller.html

I start 0.75kW induction motors with a 1.5kW portable inverter. My Makita router works fine even running at full power. 

007, I echo your claims , admittedly I am abusing power tools , lawnmowers , chain saws etc on 5KW Axpert as appose to 3kW , but the OP needs is reasonably conservative.

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24 minutes ago, BritishRacingGreen said:

007, I echo your claims , admittedly I am abusing power tools , lawnmowers , chain saws etc on 5KW Axpert as appose to 3kW , but the OP needs is reasonably conservative.

The Makita cutter at 1450W is a bast..... to start but if you start at lower voltage as easy as cake with the controller mentioned. 

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13 hours ago, Scorp007 said:

No problem to run any. Once any one is running you should be able to even start the 2nd one. 

If it is a problem the router you can always run on reduced power like with a speeds control. I use a 3kW control unit and can even start my biggish steel cutter with a 2.4kW Axpert. 

https://www.bobshop.co.za/item/584769067/4000W_220V_AC_SCR_Voltage_Regulator_Dimmer_Electric_Motor_Speed_Controller.html

I start 0.75kW induction motors with a 1.5kW portable inverter. My Makita router works fine even running at full power. 

Ok cool! Thank you for the reply, I really appreciate that.
What sort of batteries do you run on your 2.4 Axpert?
 

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13 hours ago, BritishRacingGreen said:

007, I echo your claims , admittedly I am abusing power tools , lawnmowers , chain saws etc on 5KW Axpert as appose to 3kW , but the OP needs is reasonably conservative.

Hey BritishRacingGreen! 
Thank you mate that helps a lot.
Sorry what do you mean by "the OP need is reasonable"?

 

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35 minutes ago, Terence0424 said:

Ok cool! Thank you for the reply, I really appreciate that.
What sort of batteries do you run on your 2.4 Axpert?
 

I run 4x12V drop in Hubble 100Ah and Mecer 200Ah but the S-100 performs much better. 

Even with me trying the tools and have also used my Ryobi table saw directly I have only tripped my inverter once when I tried to by adding loads until it tripped. It trips within 10sec during real overload. 

I have been using the inverter for 2yrs.

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Ok awesome! This helps me and thank you so much.

Lastly... sorry to ask so many newb questions.

What kindof charger would you recommend? I unfortunately cant install panels here so will have to charge on the lovely grid 😜

Or is it a case where that Inverter has a charger but I cant use it because I have no panels...?

I would imagine your 2 x 12Volts are in series to double up the Voltage as the Inverter needs 24V?

 

Edited by Terence0424
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4 hours ago, Terence0424 said:

Ok awesome! This helps me and thank you so much.

Lastly... sorry to ask so many newb questions.

What kindof charger would you recommend? I unfortunately cant install panels here so will have to charge on the lovely grid 😜

Or is it a case where that Inverter has a charger but I cant use it because I have no panels...?

I would imagine your 2 x 12Volts are in series to double up the Voltage as the Inverter needs 24V?

 

I charge from the 2.4kW 3kVA Axpert inverter. 

Most all in one solar inverters like Axpert, Growatt and a host of others have a charger from grid even if you don't connect solar. 

These all in one just works out cheaper for the 3 portions than buying separate. 

Most of us learn from asking 😜

Edited by Scorp007
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3 hours ago, Scorp007 said:

I charge from the 2.4kW 3kVA Axpert inverter. 

Most all in one solar inverters like Axpert, Growatt and a host of others have a charger from grid even if you don't connect solar. 

These all in one just works out cheaper for the 3 portions than buying separate. 

Most of us learn from asking 😜

Ok amazing! Absolutely mate... good chargers are close to an aditional 2k as I am sure you would know.

So say 2 x 12V batteries, how long would they take to charge?

Im looking at the ones you use as I would rather buy what you suggest

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1 hour ago, Terence0424 said:

Ok amazing! Absolutely mate... good chargers are close to an aditional 2k as I am sure you would know.

So say 2 x 12V batteries, how long would they take to charge?

Im looking at the ones you use as I would rather buy what you suggest

If you use 2x12V 100Ah batteries and you set the AC charger to 20A and they were totally discharged it will take about 5hrs. This can be set on the inverter and some models go up to about 60A. I prefer a low 30A charge rate as my batteries are never discharged very deep. 

Refer to the specs of the inverter. 

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Hey Scorp,
So to make 100% sure this is what I am going for :
https://www.geewiz.co.za/hubble-lithium-batteries/153798-hubble-s-100a-12kwh-12v-100ah-lithium-ion-lifepo4-battery-first-life-cells.html
https://www.geewiz.co.za/mecer-inverters/22813-mecer-axpert-3000va3000w-24v-pure-sine-wave-solar-invertercharger-1200w-pwm.html

On the Battery though they state :
NB - Please ensure you can set your inverter CUT OFF voltage to 11.2V, else the BMS will cut off and the battery will go dead (and will need to be jumped)

This means that you can only use this battery in Mecer 1200VA/2400VA type inverters if you are sure you wont drain the battery all the way down.

We however recommend using this battery ONLY with an inverter that is able to set cut off to 11V or more.

Does your Mecer Axpert 3000VA/3000W 24V have this function to set the Voltage to 11V or more?

The Manual speaks about Low DC Cut-off but ey what do I know... LOL

Edited by Terence0424
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4 hours ago, Terence0424 said:

Hey Scorp,
So to make 100% sure this is what I am going for :
https://www.geewiz.co.za/hubble-lithium-batteries/153798-hubble-s-100a-12kwh-12v-100ah-lithium-ion-lifepo4-battery-first-life-cells.html
https://www.geewiz.co.za/mecer-inverters/22813-mecer-axpert-3000va3000w-24v-pure-sine-wave-solar-invertercharger-1200w-pwm.html

On the Battery though they state :
NB - Please ensure you can set your inverter CUT OFF voltage to 11.2V, else the BMS will cut off and the battery will go dead (and will need to be jumped)

This means that you can only use this battery in Mecer 1200VA/2400VA type inverters if you are sure you wont drain the battery all the way down.

We however recommend using this battery ONLY with an inverter that is able to set cut off to 11V or more.

Does your Mecer Axpert 3000VA/3000W 24V have this function to set the Voltage to 11V or more?

The Manual speaks about Low DC Cut-off but ey what do I know... LOL

The Mecer you indicated will have settings to set around 21-24V in steps of 0.1V.

The Web site mentions 11V per battery and thus x2 in your case. 

I personally don't like the inverters with a PWM solar controller. They limit the panel voltage that you can use and it is more important these days to at least be able to use 45-50V panels. Some of those with MPPT like the plus version can take panels with up to Voc=145V and a normal range of 30-115V.

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I run an 24v 3kw mks2 plus inverter but from solar .

I run my 800w water pump . Drilling machines , bench grinders , router , heat gun , front loader washing machine , microwave and even the 1400w vac cleaner , 

Only issue with gel battery is there volts drop under load and 2 gel battery in series is not going to handle much load 4 gels 2s / 2p is going to do better but then the cost of 4 gels you can just as well buy a lithium that can take loads of 100amps . 

 

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18 hours ago, GMAC said:

I run an 24v 3kw mks2 plus inverter but from solar .

I run my 800w water pump . Drilling machines , bench grinders , router , heat gun , front loader washing machine , microwave and even the 1400w vac cleaner , 

Only issue with gel battery is there volts drop under load and 2 gel battery in series is not going to handle much load 4 gels 2s / 2p is going to do better but then the cost of 4 gels you can just as well buy a lithium that can take loads of 100amps . 

 

Thank you GMAC, I really appreciate your reply.

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On 2023/05/01 at 10:17 PM, GMAC said:

I run an 24v 3kw mks2 plus inverter but from solar .

I run my 800w water pump . Drilling machines , bench grinders , router , heat gun , front loader washing machine , microwave and even the 1400w vac cleaner , 

Only issue with gel battery is there volts drop under load and 2 gel battery in series is not going to handle much load 4 gels 2s / 2p is going to do better but then the cost of 4 gels you can just as well buy a lithium that can take loads of 100amps . 

 

Hi GMAC, I've been pondering your 4 x Gel mention and looking at Gels that cost around R2.5k each. Compared to Lithium this is a 10K saving wich is a lot.

I guess it comes with the big BUT...? Would you say the Gel batteries will give us around 1000 cycles in the end or not even close?

Also would the 3kv Meccer take 4 x Gels?

Lastly why 2S / 2P? Would that still give us 24V in the end? I am not sure how to even do a S/P bank! 😃

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Esener  25.6v is around R13k and can discharge at 100amp and will last double+  the life of gels with 4000cycles so saving on the long run . 

If the meccer is 24v then it can run 2s 2p with out issues 

Most 3 kw inverter are 24v so yes 2p 2s makes 24v .

Normally cheaper gels won't have 1000 cycles and R2500 are cheaper gels if you want  longer lasting gels that gives you around 600 cycles you going to pay over R3k a gel 

Edited by GMAC
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10 hours ago, GMAC said:

Esener  25.6v is around R13k and can discharge at 100amp and will last double+  the life of gels with 4000cycles so saving on the long run . 

If the meccer is 24v then it can run 2s 2p with out issues 

Most 3 kw inverter are 24v so yes 2p 2s makes 24v .

Normally cheaper gels won't have 1000 cycles and R2500 are cheaper gels if you want  longer lasting gels that gives you around 600 cycles you going to pay over R3k a gel 

Hey GMAC, thank you.

Is there any advantage of rather doing 2 or 4 Batteries opposed to 1 x 25V at all?
Also let me try ask all my questions in the same post....Given my situation that I actually need to run Power Tools on the Battery, would there be a disadvantage with the the Esener? Does it have the same power as 2 x Hubble etc...?

 

Edited by Terence0424
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Best is do research on the difference between lithium,  lead and gel as there loads on it on Google so you can decide what best and fits you budget .

When is comes to Esener and Hubble is impossible to say which is best as it will depend on the grade of cell used in these batterys .

The disadvantages of Esener is it has no communication ports or soc light or screen this making it cheaper  but if your inverter does not have the ability to communicate with the battery then why pay for what you can't use . If your inverter can communicate then Hubble is better . 

I bought one Esener battery was happy with it performance and bought a second this giving me the ability to max out my inverter with out  over amping my lithium . 

You really have to decide what going to fit into your budget and from there manage your system but  lithium is the way to go .

I started with 2 gel went to 4 gel and  now after 4 years + moved to lithium . Wish I'd went lithium from the beginning would have save me spending loads on gel that after 4 years could not pull my microwave for longer than 30 seconds . 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Terence0424 said:

Hey GMAC, thank you.

Is there any advantage of rather doing 2 or 4 Batteries opposed to 1 x 25V at all?
Also let me try ask all my questions in the same post....Given my situation that I actually need to run Power Tools on the Battery, would there be a disadvantage with the the Esener? Does it have the same power as 2 x Hubble etc...?

 

I hope you consider the Esener @ R13000 before dumping R10000 on 4 x gel?

It was mentioned on an earlier post. 

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3 hours ago, GMAC said:

Best is do research on the difference between lithium,  lead and gel as there loads on it on Google so you can decide what best and fits you budget .

When is comes to Esener and Hubble is impossible to say which is best as it will depend on the grade of cell used in these batterys .

The disadvantages of Esener is it has no communication ports or soc light or screen this making it cheaper  but if your inverter does not have the ability to communicate with the battery then why pay for what you can't use . If your inverter can communicate then Hubble is better . 

I bought one Esener battery was happy with it performance and bought a second this giving me the ability to max out my inverter with out  over amping my lithium . 

You really have to decide what going to fit into your budget and from there manage your system but  lithium is the way to go .

I started with 2 gel went to 4 gel and  now after 4 years + moved to lithium . Wish I'd went lithium from the beginning would have save me spending loads on gel that after 4 years could not pull my microwave for longer than 30 seconds . 

 

 

Thank you, I wasn't really trying to figure what is best between Esener & Hubble but more to find out what I can use for the budget I have.
You have helped me and thanks again.

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1 hour ago, Scorp007 said:

I hope you consider the Esener @ R13000 before dumping R10000 on 4 x gel?

It was mentioned on an earlier post. 

Hi Scorp, yes I am indeed considering the Esener rather than Gel, hence trying to find out all I can about it 🙂
Thanks so much you guys have helped me tremendously! 

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