June 14, 20233 yr Hi all! So so new to solar community, I purchased this Inverter due to the price and apparently being able to connect up to 8 via a dongle. I have 4 200Ah Allgrand VRLA gel batteries connected in s/p with 2kw of panels. So here is a conundrum for all the inverter specialists out there. This is my third post, hopefully someone will reply. This inverter has no battery selection type setting, no bulk setting in user mode, in fact there is only a user mode. Battery settings as follows. 1. Equalization. Which is a big no no for gel and according to Allgrand spec sheet. 2. Float 13.6 Allgrand spec 3. High voltage cut off. 4. Low voltage cut off. So my question is, if there is no default setting for Gel or AGM, no bulk charging or absorption setting how is one supposed to charge any battery. Either I'm dof or this is a piece of shite. No response from numerous big companies selling this item. Thanking you in advance. Edited June 14, 20233 yr by Hilton B Left out pics :)
June 15, 20233 yr Tbh from what I've seen, default AGM settings usually end up damaging batteries, it's best to use your own settings for your specific battery. Strange that you don't have a bulk setting (maybe it's the high voltage cutoff), but I'm sure you can use the equalization settings to bulk charge, just set the voltage down to your bulk voltage and then set it for an hour and see how it does, you can always adjust the time to suit your battery after some experience. Typical equalization is not good for gel batteries, but if you drop the voltage and time you can prevent cooking off the electrolyte and charge them just fine. Low voltage cutoff should usually be 24V if you want your batteries to last. You can maybe go a bit lower so it doesn't cut off at 24V under load if you need to.
June 15, 20233 yr I just wonder what is the AC output of these inverters. It is listed as a 3200VA but under AC output it is indicated 230V 15.3A which is close to 3500VA.
June 19, 20233 yr Author On 2023/06/15 at 9:59 AM, jumper said: Tbh from what I've seen, default AGM settings usually end up damaging batteries, it's best to use your own settings for your specific battery. Strange that you don't have a bulk setting (maybe it's the high voltage cutoff), but I'm sure you can use the equalization settings to bulk charge, just set the voltage down to your bulk voltage and then set it for an hour and see how it does, you can always adjust the time to suit your battery after some experience. Typical equalization is not good for gel batteries, but if you drop the voltage and time you can prevent cooking off the electrolyte and charge them just fine. Low voltage cutoff should usually be 24V if you want your batteries to last. You can maybe go a bit lower so it doesn't cut off at 24V under load if you need to. I spoke to my local battery supplier and he suggested I set equalize to float which is 13.6v as per Allgrand data sheet, agreed equalization is a no no for VRLA Gel hence setting the 2 to the same voltage.. This inverter does not have any time settings. Everything seems to be working fine but let's see how it goes. Cheers for your input.
June 19, 20233 yr 3 hours ago, Hilton B said: I spoke to my local battery supplier and he suggested I set equalize to float... I don't know the Ecco inverters, but it seems pointless to me to set up equalisation with the same voltage as the float setting. If the inverter isn't bulk charging, it would normally be in either float stage or equalisation stage. If these stages have the same voltage setting, there would be no difference; the battery can't read the screen to see that "equalisation is active" 🙂 I suppose that the Ecco could go to no charging at all, but then the battery state of charge would decrease when it supplies loads, when solar could be maintaining the battery at float voltage, keeping the battery ready for night time. I wonder if the battery supplier meant for you to run time limited equalisation at the absorb (bulk) voltage setting. This is sometimes needed in Axpert inverters, for example, because of the premature float bug. Maybe the Eccos are Axpert clones or work-alikes and inherited the bug.
June 21, 20233 yr Author On 2023/06/15 at 9:59 AM, jumper said: Tbh from what I've seen, default AGM settings usually end up damaging batteries, it's best to use your own settings for your specific battery. Strange that you don't have a bulk setting (maybe it's the high voltage cutoff), but I'm sure you can use the equalization settings to bulk charge, just set the voltage down to your bulk voltage and then set it for an hour and see how it does, you can always adjust the time to suit your battery after some experience. Typical equalization is not good for gel batteries, but if you drop the voltage and time you can prevent cooking off the electrolyte and charge them just fine. Low voltage cutoff should usually be 24V if you want your batteries to last. You can maybe go a bit lower so it doesn't cut off at 24V under load if you need to. I have float set at 13.6v as per battery manufacturer specs. This no setting for bulk or charge voltage blows my mind. As per the attachment they talk about a charge voltage for VRLA but as mentioned there is no setting for this. I can try using equalization as bulk but I'm a bit hesitant to try this as equalization for a gel is a definite no no especially as there is no time setting for a specific charge setting on this inverter, unless it is done automatically. A lot of money down the drain if things go south battery wise, but I guess there is only one way to find out. Cheers for your input.
June 21, 20233 yr Author On 2023/06/19 at 3:44 PM, Coulomb said: I don't know the Ecco inverters, but it seems pointless to me to set up equalisation with the same voltage as the float setting. If the inverter isn't bulk charging, it would normally be in either float stage or equalisation stage. If these stages have the same voltage setting, there would be no difference; the battery can't read the screen to see that "equalisation is active" 🙂 I suppose that the Ecco could go to no charging at all, but then the battery state of charge would decrease when it supplies loads, when solar could be maintaining the battery at float voltage, keeping the battery ready for night time. I wonder if the battery supplier meant for you to run time limited equalisation at the absorb (bulk) voltage setting. This is sometimes needed in Axpert inverters, for example, because of the premature float bug. Maybe the Eccos are Axpert clones or work-alikes and inherited the bug. I can try using equalization as bulk but I'm a bit hesitant to try this as equalization for a gel is a definite no no especially as there is no time setting for a specific charge setting on this inverter, unless it is done automatically. A lot of money down the drain if things go south battery wise, but I guess there is only one way to find out. Cheers for your input.
June 21, 20233 yr 29 minutes ago, Hilton B said: This no setting for bulk or charge voltage blows my mind. As per the attachment they talk about a charge voltage for VRLA but as mentioned there is no setting for this. This is very strange because your screenshot even says under "Customize Battery: Charging and discharging parameters...can be customized"... one would expect a setting for charge voltage when in custom mode... maybe you need to set it to custom mode and save the setting and restart the inverter for the extra setting to show up. I can't find a manual for this inverter online, so other than that I'm out of ideas, sorry.
June 21, 20233 yr Author 2 hours ago, jumper said: This is very strange because your screenshot even says under "Customize Battery: Charging and discharging parameters...can be customized"... one would expect a setting for charge voltage when in custom mode... maybe you need to set it to custom mode and save the setting and restart the inverter for the extra setting to show up. I can't find a manual for this inverter online, so other than that I'm out of ideas, sorry. I'll keep you posted to any further outcomes with my investigation. No, you aren't going to find anything relating to this Inverter on the web, I've spent just on 2 weeks searching and nothing.
June 21, 20233 yr Author 5 hours ago, Hilton B said: I'll keep you posted to any further outcomes with my investigation. No, you aren't going to find anything relating to this Inverter on the web, I've spent just on 2 weeks searching and nothing. Something wild came to mind while going through the manual for the umpteenth time. As there are no default battery type settings to be found and based on the pic I posted which only indicates VRLA battery type with a charge voltage of 13.8v, what is the possibility that this Inverter is only meant for VRLA batteries and the charge voltage is preset, hence no adjustable settings for other battery types. This would explain why only float, equalization, low and high cut off are adjustable. I also set equalization to 0v due to the gel's I'm running, after reboot it defaults to 14v. What are the chances?
June 21, 20233 yr 4 hours ago, Hilton B said: This would explain why only float, equalization, low and high cut off are adjustable. The thing is though... if the inverter was only made for vrla batteries, then why does it even have equalization? The manual says you can customize the battery settings so it must be possible somehow. I must admit I have never seen an inverter made for only 1 type of battery, that would be a new one for me. If you're up for the mission you can download a phone app that scans images to pdf and just scan and upload the manual here and we can take a read to see if you might be missing something.
June 22, 20233 yr Author 7 hours ago, jumper said: The thing is though... if the inverter was only made for vrla batteries, then why does it even have equalization? The manual says you can customize the battery settings so it must be possible somehow. I must admit I have never seen an inverter made for only 1 type of battery, that would be a new one for me. If you're up for the mission you can download a phone app that scans images to pdf and just scan and upload the manual here and we can take a read to see if you might be missing something. Customize THE specified battery settings yes, default low voltage and high voltage cut offs and float are not correct according to the battery manufacturer. As to why have equalization at all, there are still those on forums and certain battery manufactures who insist vrla gel must be equalized, just maybe the inverter manufacturer is one of them. I will make a plan to upload the manual.
June 22, 20233 yr Author 9 hours ago, jumper said: The thing is though... if the inverter was only made for vrla batteries, then why does it even have equalization? The manual says you can customize the battery settings so it must be possible somehow. I must admit I have never seen an inverter made for only 1 type of battery, that would be a new one for me. If you're up for the mission you can download a phone app that scans images to pdf and just scan and upload the manual here and we can take a read to see if you might be missing something. Ok so the PDF thing isn't going to work as I'm not paying for the app, and due to the 3MB file size restriction here I'll be sending through 4 or 5 posts. I've left out all the connection and maintenance info.
June 22, 20233 yr Author 2 hours ago, Hilton B said: Customize THE specified battery settings yes, default low voltage and high voltage cut offs and float are not correct according to the battery manufacturer. As to why have equalization at all, there are still those on forums and certain battery manufactures who insist vrla gel must be equalized, just maybe the inverter manufacturer is one of them. I will make a plan to upload the manual.
June 22, 20233 yr Author 2 hours ago, Hilton B said: Customize THE specified battery settings yes, default low voltage and high voltage cut offs and float are not correct according to the battery manufacturer. As to why have equalization at all, there are still those on forums and certain battery manufactures who insist vrla gel must be equalized, just maybe the inverter manufacturer is one of them. I will make a plan to upload the manual.
June 22, 20233 yr Author 2 hours ago, Hilton B said: Customize THE specified battery settings yes, default low voltage and high voltage cut offs and float are not correct according to the battery manufacturer. As to why have equalization at all, there are still those on forums and certain battery manufactures who insist vrla gel must be equalized, just maybe the inverter manufacturer is one of them. I will make a plan to upload the manual.
June 22, 20233 yr Author 2 hours ago, Hilton B said: Customize THE specified battery settings yes, default low voltage and high voltage cut offs and float are not correct according to the battery manufacturer. As to why have equalization at all, there are still those on forums and certain battery manufactures who insist vrla gel must be equalized, just maybe the inverter manufacturer is one of them. I will make a plan to upload the manual. That is it.
June 22, 20233 yr 1 hour ago, Hilton B said: That is it. Thanks for taking the time to upload these, unfortunately it has not shed much light on the subject for me either as there is no reference at all to bulk or absorption voltages. I can only imagine it is either the high voltage cutoff (U6) or the equalize voltage (U2). All I can offer is what I would attempt to try and figure it out as safely as possible... Keep the equalize the same as float as you have it (27.2V) and change the high voltage cutoff to the bulk charge voltage (28.4V) and then watch the inverter to see if it charges higher than 27.2V. If it does go higher, watch to see if it stops at 27.6V (preset charge voltage) and then goes to float (27.2V). If it doesn't go over 27.2V then change the equalize voltage to 28V and see if it manages to charge that high and how long it keeps it there before going to float. If it only charges up to 28V then you know that the equalize voltage is the bulk voltage and if it charges up to 28.4V then you know the high voltage cutoff is the bulk charge voltage. Hopefully that ramble makes some sense... I have based the bulk charge figure on what I have found online for the most common Allgrand 200Ah VRLA gel batteries which suggest 14.2-14.8V for bulk charge, so in the end you should set it up so it charges up to at least 28.4V. For these batteries to charge properly they would need to charge up to 28.4V and stay there until the current into the batteries drops off to a few amps, then it should only switch to float, otherwise they will be undercharging which can be worse than overcharging for lead acid batteries.
June 22, 20233 yr @Hilton B The setting pages do look different to other Ecco models that have the same settings as the Axpert/Mecer where one can choose the type of battery or use the USR setting and manually set all the battery parameters. It seems strange that they give adjustable ranges for bulk and float but no global setting.
June 22, 20233 yr Author 2 hours ago, Scorp007 said: @Hilton B The setting pages do look different to other Ecco models that have the same settings as the Axpert/Mecer where one can choose the type of battery or use the USR setting and manually set all the battery parameters. It seems strange that they give adjustable ranges for bulk and float but no global setting. Yeah, definitely the black sheep in the inverter family.
June 22, 20233 yr Author 3 hours ago, jumper said: Thanks for taking the time to upload these, unfortunately it has not shed much light on the subject for me either as there is no reference at all to bulk or absorption voltages. I can only imagine it is either the high voltage cutoff (U6) or the equalize voltage (U2). All I can offer is what I would attempt to try and figure it out as safely as possible... Keep the equalize the same as float as you have it (27.2V) and change the high voltage cutoff to the bulk charge voltage (28.4V) and then watch the inverter to see if it charges higher than 27.2V. If it does go higher, watch to see if it stops at 27.6V (preset charge voltage) and then goes to float (27.2V). If it doesn't go over 27.2V then change the equalize voltage to 28V and see if it manages to charge that high and how long it keeps it there before going to float. If it only charges up to 28V then you know that the equalize voltage is the bulk voltage and if it charges up to 28.4V then you know the high voltage cutoff is the bulk charge voltage. Hopefully that ramble makes some sense... I have based the bulk charge figure on what I have found online for the most common Allgrand 200Ah VRLA gel batteries which suggest 14.2-14.8V for bulk charge, so in the end you should set it up so it charges up to at least 28.4V. For these batteries to charge properly they would need to charge up to 28.4V and stay there until the current into the batteries drops off to a few amps, then it should only switch to float, otherwise they will be undercharging which can be worse than overcharging for lead acid batteries. Thanks once again for your input and brain scratching. Let me input the above and see how things go. As things stand at the moment, I have HV cut off at 28.8v but battery voltage never reaches this, always 27.6v. Will keep you posted.
June 22, 20233 yr You have to some how be able to set individual settings Edited June 22, 20233 yr by Eurard
June 22, 20233 yr 1 hour ago, Hilton B said: As things stand at the moment, I have HV cut off at 28.8v but battery voltage never reaches this, always 27.6v. So I guess that means it doesn't charge to the HV cutoff which is good, leave that as is. Charging to 27.6V points to that "hardcoded" 13.8V charging voltage as you mentioned which is strange because as I mentioned there are VRLA batteries that require a charge of 14.2V+, so technically if this inverter is only for VRLA then this value should still be adjustable. So the first question would be: how long does it stay charging at 27.6V before it goes to float at 26.2V? Does it even do this? This 'should' happen once the current has tapered off and the charge light should stop flashing an go solid on. The second question is when is the equalization activated, if at all? You said it defaulted to 28V which should be fine, charging your batteries to that voltage won't damage them, they will only be damaged at voltages above 29V or if left for a long time at 28V+. It would be interesting to see if the inverter can get up to 28V and then see when it stops the equalization, as there is no time setting, perhaps it uses a drop in current to decide when to stop. I'm just wondering if what they are calling "Equalize charging voltage", might just be the bulk/absorption voltage and has been mistranslated or something.
June 29, 20233 yr Author On 2023/06/22 at 2:28 PM, Eurard said: You have to some how be able to set individual settings Only settings as per my doc attachments. nothing else.
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