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Infini Inverter- Why is the air filter on the exhaust, instead of the intake?


bluwater
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I have a 3KW Infini Plus. Ever since I got it, I have been wondering why did voltronic put an air filter on the exhaust port instead of the intake. Why filter out air going out of the Inverter? It doesn't make much sense to me. Just wondering why it was designed this way, instead of putting the air filter on the bottom, before the intake fan. Any ideas?

 

 

IMG_20180901_110057.jpg

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15 minutes ago, bluwater said:

Any ideas?

The exhaust of the infini's I dealt with were on top, and their filters  were to coarse to be a dust filter, so I always assumed it was to stop foreign objects from falling into the inverter rather than filtering the air. 

Air filters are made from different materials than that in your picture. I guess it was never meant as an air filter.

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I agree, it's not like a proper air filter, but it's also too fine to be used as a trap for preventing foreign objects from falling into the inverter.

Today I noticed that the internal temperature of the inverter rose to 67C. So I used a small brush to dust off the exhaust outlets, but that didn't seem to make much of a difference to the internal temperature. So I removed the filter and noticed that it had a double mesh. So although it appeared clean on the outside, it was caked with dust on the inside, and it seems to be made of stainless steel, so it can be washed. After I washed and refitted both filters, the internal temperature came down to 49C.

So this is definitely a dust filter of some sort but it doesn't make sense to put this on the exhaust.

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15 minutes ago, bluwater said:

Today I noticed that the internal temperature of the inverter rose to 67C.

My inverters max component temp rises to that often during a good battery charge and during a power failure and high load combined conditions. When the load drops or batterys start to fill up the temps drops back to in the 30s-40s (without cleaning the filter) Internal temp never went over 45 that I am aware of. 

With your internal temp sitting at 67, what is you max component temp, must be way over 100degree C ?

 

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This design on my infini is definitely not for air filtering. I am 100% convinced it is to keep stuff from falling into my inverter. And if it should get blocked by debris  the slots on the side will still allow the hot air to escape to prevent overheating. 

 

 

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Jaco de Jongh said:

With your internal temp sitting at 67, what is you max component temp, must be way over 100degree C ?

I don't know what you mean by component temperature, I am using ICC windows and it just shows me one temperature. The ambient temp is about 28-29C. Before I cleaned the filter, the temperature was about 40C at 30% load then it rose to 67C at 65% load. After I cleaned the filter now its 50C at 65% load.

The 3KW Infini I have is different from your inverter. It does not have any exhaust vents on the side. Just the two on top with the mesh type filter. I consulted the user manual and it says "clean fan filter regularly" So I guess this is their idea of a fan filter.

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22 minutes ago, plonkster said:

Indeed. It's the difference between IP22 and IP23 :-)

So for some reason the ability to edit a post is gone? Mistake. The second digit has to do with water ingress. So it would be the difference between IP2x and IP3x or 4x. I would assume the second digit is zero (no protection against water dripping from above), so that makes this unit IP30 or IP40 ?

Victron units are IP21. They have that little roof/integrated handle over the top that prevents objects and liquids from falling in.

Edit: The edit link is back! The InfiniSolar is IP20. Without that little shroud it would probably be 10 I guess (fingers or small objects).

Edited by plonkster
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2 minutes ago, plonkster said:

So for some reason the ability to edit a post is gone? Mistake. The second digit has to do with water ingress. So it would be the difference between IP2x and IP3x or 4x. I would assume the second digit is zero (no protection against water dripping from above), so that makes this unit IP30 or IP40 ?

Victron units are IP21. They have that little roof/integrated handle over the top that prevents objects and liquids from falling in. 

Infini 3KW Plus is IP20 according to the user manual.

IP20 means you are protected again solid objects up to 12mm (2) but there is no protection against liquids (0)

Victron's IP 21 means you are protected again solid objects up to 12mm (2) and against vertically falling drops of water (0)

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16 minutes ago, bluwater said:

the temperature was about 40C at 30% load then it rose to 67C at 65% load. After I cleaned the filter now its 50C at 65% load.

Early today the PV volts were low and the conversion to get it to 230Volts created more heat that it is creating now to convert the higher PV volts to 230volts. I still feel it wasn't the cleaning of the filter that caused the temp to drop , but some process that has changed in the inverter. 

16 minutes ago, bluwater said:

I don't know what you mean by component temperature, I am using ICC windows and it just shows me one temperature.

Infini reports 2 temperatures. Internal and max component. The fluctuations you describe above tells me ICC looks at max component temp witch is process related. The chances of internal temperatures fluctuating like that are slim. A blocked filter will raise internal temp, but the temp will remain high till filter is cleaned. It wont create the kind of fluctuations you are describing..

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21 minutes ago, bluwater said:

The 3KW Infini I have is different from your inverter. It does not have any exhaust vents on the side.

I think you misunderstood me. My infini only has exhausts on top.  Inlets on the bottom and bottom sides. But if you look at the picture above the filter unit has got a top and a side. Filter on top and slots on the side. 

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I am sure the temp drop was due to the cleaning of the filter. When I opened them, there was a burst of hot air coming out and by the time I was done cleaning them and was about to reinstall them, the hot air from the exhaust had dissipated and it was much cooler. I guess the reason is that the Infini 3KW plus has no other vents besides the two fan intakes on the bottom and two exhaust vents on top. So temps can rise if you don't clean the filters regularly.

 

IMG_20180901_124902.jpg

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27 minutes ago, bluwater said:

. I guess the reason is that the Infini 3KW plus has no other vents besides the two fan intakes on the bottom and two exhaust vents on top. So temps can rise if you don't clean the filters regularly

Well there you have it then, at least now you know. Just hope they also thought of a way to let you know the Inverter is about to blow some components, while you are sitting somewhere on 'n beach, during your annual leave. 

Also glad you brought this under our attention, I was just about to recommend these 3kw models to a guy who wanted  35 units. Access to these units will be limited, so cleaning the filters will become an issue. Have to rethink what my next options for him will be.. 

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Well it does throw an error when the temperature exceeds the maximum limit and I suppose it should shutdown automatically if the temperature get too high.

They should have added some ventilation slots on the side as a fail safe, just like in the other models. And the top vents themselves could have been secured in a removable plastic case without screws which would make it easier to pop out and clean. With the screws you need to be really careful, because you could accidentally drop them into the inverter while unscrewing or reinstalling the filter.

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7 hours ago, Jaco de Jongh said:

Well there you have it then, at least now you know. Just hope they also thought of a way to let you know the Inverter is about to blow some components, while you are sitting somewhere on 'n beach, during your annual leave. 

Also glad you brought this under our attention, I was just about to recommend these 3kw models to a guy who wanted  35 units. Access to these units will be limited, so cleaning the filters will become an issue. Have to rethink what my next options for him will be.. 

 Jaco, a Goodwe 3.6 is a very nice alternative. Features : IP65, Fanless, intelligent battery system.

Pricing is almost exactly the same, but does not really like to be without the grid, although you can easily overcome this problem

Something to consider, if you do not suffer from the same jealous symptoms as some of the other members :D Ps.This one's colour is ORANGE  

 

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1 hour ago, Chris-R said:

Something to consider, if you do not suffer from the same jealous symptoms as some of the other members :D Ps.This one's colour is ORANGE  

It's a good backup option, yes. Seriously... take the goodwe, it is miles better than the Voltronic, if you cannot for financial or ideological reasons buy blue :-)

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1 hour ago, plonkster said:

It's a good backup option, yes. Seriously... take the goodwe, it is miles better than the Voltronic, if you cannot for financial or ideological reasons buy blue :-)

Plus one on that!

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1 hour ago, plonkster said:

It's a good backup option, yes. Seriously... take the goodwe, it is miles better than the Voltronic, if you cannot for financial or ideological reasons buy blue :-)

Better have to, I know the finances for blue is not available, and using a Voltronic that blocks a filter way bigger than any dust participial I ever dealt with seems a bit dangerous to me. If dust blocked that, I wonder what the PC board looks like at this stage. Nope voltronic will not do. 

Wonder how long the unit in question has been installed. My V's were in for a year, no filter issues, and then my current ones in for more than a year, also no filter issues, and i stay in a very dusty mining town.  

8 hours ago, bluwater said:

With the screws you need to be really careful, because you could accidentally drop them into the inverter while unscrewing or reinstalling the filter.

That seems like a good reason to install those filters. whats the use telling people to clean the filters regularly and then have them drop the screws down the machine.  

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1 hour ago, Jaco de Jongh said:

finances for blue is not available

Goodwe 5kw is around 23k (2.3kw backup).

Victron Multiplus 5kva (full 5kva backup, 4kva grid-tied), around 25k.

The goodwe comes with two high-voltage MPPTs though.

But I'm beginning to see that it has to do with different markets as well: These devices with the built-in MPPT on a hybrid inverter clearly targets the home-user. Victron's market is still overwhelmingly the off-grid user, boats, yachts, camper vans, telecoms, etc. And we integrate better with other systems, be it modbus, mqtt or similar.

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Future proofing ... ja ja that is a new norm here ... are we not forgetting something?

The grid tied inverter size is limited by the max main breaker amp, right?

So if one goes for a bigger inverter and you have a 60amps breaker, and they do start enforcing the laws, to get it signed off, would that not mean removal of the 5kva, forcign you to get a smaller inverter?

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12 hours ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

The grid tied inverter size is limited by the max main breaker amp, right?

Depends. I don't know what the local rules say, but often you are allowed to use the larger inverter as long as it is configured to never feed in more than the 3.5kw (in this example). Many overseas countries allow that for example, so people do oversize the array. I'm not sure what the situation is on this side of the pond. I think you are allowed to oversize the array as long as the inverter is within the limits. I don't know if configuring a limit on the inverter will let you get away with a larger one.

With a Multiplus you can configure the AC input limit to 15A, which will do what you want. Only issue is that it is rather very easily changed... on the CCGX without even an installer password. So unlikely to be allowed.

4 hours ago, Jaco de Jongh said:

Misunderstanding somewhere. I am in the market for 3kw-3.6 kw units. 

For my comparison I had to pick similarly sized units, so I picked those two. The situation is similar lower down.

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