28 minutes ago, plonkster said:

So when you run out of vedirect ports... you can add more using USB cables.

I can only find reference to 90cm VeDirect to VeDirect  cables witch is to short to to reach in my application. Do you know of longer ones or are the USb to VE-direct the only option for longer reach.  Found The  answer as well.  

 

1 hour ago, plonkster said:

Remote configuration of vedirect devices is a work in progress, some of the support is there already (the vedirect_interface and mqtt-rpc components are done, but the rest of the pipeline is still being built).

From What I read here, I can use the vedirect to usb to do initial config on MPPT's, cables reroute to gx for normal opperation.

Quattro, I will need the MK3-usb for initual config.      Configuration Can be done by GX----- Firmware update only by MK3 or Supplier...... 

After that what cable connects the Quattro to the venus? I just cant find that... cant be the same cable? Disregard, figured it out at last. Thats what the RJ 45's are for. .............. took me some time but found it.........   😅😅

GX config though portal... Correct?

2 hours ago, Jaco de Jongh said:

Configuration Can be done by GX----- Firmware update only by MK3 or Supplier......

Or by using vbdup... which is not official/supported but does work if you're into that sort of low-level commandline stuff.

2 hours ago, Jaco de Jongh said:

GX config though portal... Correct?

Local web browser. Just browse to the ip address of the Venus-GX using a web browser. It also supports uPnP (universal plug and play) so quite often if you use the relevant windows browsing tool it will show up on the left (I use windows only when I must... so don't ask me).

There is also a wireless access point on the Venus-GX and it is turned on by default. You can connect to that using a phone, and then browse to 172.24.24.1. Details is on a sticker on the side of the Venus-GX.

On 2018/11/28 at 8:15 PM, phil.g00 said:

@Jaco de Jongh

If you intend to expand your system you have to have a good think about your foundation architecture, when going the Victron paralleling route.

Victron units can parallel, but they have to identical units, and that doesn't mean identical electrical specs and outside casing, that means identical microprocessors inside.

A 5kVA wont parallel with a 3kVA, and unless it is the identical firmware range it wont parallel with another 5kVA. There are several microprocessors fitted across the range and firmware upgrades wont solve the problem. Be warned and specify that you want to parallel units when you purchase.

It also means that if you choose an 8kVA unit now, your next Victron inverter would be another 8kVA step. Which is quite a financial leap considering the panels and everything.

Now the other thing that can parallel with a Victron inverter/charger on its output is a Fronius PV inverter. (Doesn't have to be soul-mate match, like a Victron unit).

Because the Victron is a a bi-directional device that means the Fronius can also charge the batteries through the Victron when it isn't directly feeding load.

Now, I know that with a Quattro the size of PV inverter has to be less than or equal to the size of the Victron kVA wise, and I assume that is the same for the Multigrid. @plonkster?

So making the assumption that 6kW is your final state, I would consider getting a Multigrid (3kVA with the Ziehl legal stuff already built in) and paralleling a 3kVA Fronius PV inverter with it. A Fronius has 2 MPPTs built into it, be aware it is an advantage that these the Fronius MPPT is a high voltage input, meaning your panels can be much further away without using thick copper. However you have achieve a sufficiently high voltage for it to kick in.( So several similar panels in series).

I think that this is the most cost effective option using highly respected equipment. Be aware though if the Multigrid is being phased out, so getting another one to parallel with it, may be an issue in the future.

As the Fronius is downstream of the approved MultiGrid, I shouldn't imagine there will be COC issues. However legality I think there is also size limit of under 4 point something kVA single phase generation size? I don't know if this applies to a hard capability or if a soft cap is compliant. Somebody can chip in on this...

But if If you cannot back feed back into the grid or need to limit the amount, both Victron and Fronius have add on solutions, with their ESS and smart meter options respectively.

I am hesitant to recommend the all in one solutions, that to me means if something stops working it all stops.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Don't forget ABB. 3.3kw also has 2 x MPPT and is very well priced. Built in WiFi, WUI and OTA firmware upgrading on ABB Aurora manager monitoring platform free of charge for the lifetime of the plant. 

On 2018/12/01 at 8:44 AM, anotherbrownbear said:

On 2018/11/28 at 8:15 PM, phil.g00 said:

 

Don't forget ABB. 3.3kw also has 2 x MPPT and is very well priced

Thanks sir, but I cant see that these units allow for battery backup.. 

Everything ordered. Hope to have everything installed and all changes made by the weekend of the 14th. 

Please correct me if I am wrong. 

Max current the quattro can draw from the battery's are 135 Amps at 48Volts. (less at higher) .............. 150 or 160 Amp protection fuse between battery bank and inverter.? (I have 160 Amps available)

Max Ac demand is 28.26 Amps. Planing a 40Amp supply breaker and a 32Amp on the Output side.

I have never heard of protection on the output side of a MPPT , but then again I have never  installed a MPPT as big as the two I will use in this installation. With the build in short-circuit protection as well as the  MPPTs ability to limit output current, I shouldn't worry about additional protection. Theoretically it should never go into a overload condition except for under a short circuit condition. 

 

 

16 minutes ago, Jaco de Jongh said:

Thanks sir, but I cant see that these units allow for battery backup.. 

Was referring to the Fronius AC coupled system. Can use ABB in the same way. 

16 minutes ago, Jaco de Jongh said:

Max current the quattro can draw from the battery's are 135 Amps at 48Volts. (less at higher) .............. 150 or 160 Amp protection fuse between battery bank and inverter.? (I have 160 Amps available)

The quattro can peak at 200% Pnominal for about a second, and your batteries will likely supply such a surge easily, so peak current is closer to 300A. A fuse doesn't blow immediately when you go over its rating, but at twice its rating it will blow in under a second. You also need to derate it by about 25%.  So 150A is going to be too low, you need at least 200A and maybe even more. If it's a Mersen holder... that is probably bad news. I think the size of the holder goes up from 200A upwards.

24 minutes ago, Jaco de Jongh said:

Max Ac demand is 28.26 Amps. Planing a 40Amp supply breaker and a 32Amp on the Output side.

Same story here. It can peak at twice Pnominal, 16kw, or 70A. Only for about a second though, so definitely no need to size for that. You should pick the breaker according to the size of the cable. The inverter already has its own overload protection. 40A is probably fine in this case.

On 2018/12/02 at 9:00 PM, plonkster said:

If it's a Mersen holder... that is probably bad news. I think the size of the holder goes up from 200A upwards.

Mersen can handle a 60A fuse.

12 minutes ago, Chris Hobson said:

Mersen can handle a 60A fuse.

Normally the DIN fuse holders are number in sizes the same as the fuses. So you get DIN fuse size 0 up to 160A and Size 1 up to 250A and so on. So like @plonkstersaid,the fuse holder will need to be upgraded. Another thing to keep in mind, are you using the holder as a disconnector or just an isolator? This makes a difference in the type of fuse holder you need to get. If you need a disconnector, then they are normally a bit more expensive as they have arc extinguishing chambers built in. 

Toys are here.... Inverter much bigger than I thought.... Venus much smaller... 😊

Now the prep work starts, and there is now way Im getting this inverter on the wall by myself. 

 

19 minutes ago, Jaco de Jongh said:

prep work

If you need help, give me a call... but preferably after 2PM. Kids party tomorrow :-)

4 hours ago, Jaco de Jongh said:

Toys are here.... Inverter much bigger than I thought.... Venus much smaller... 😊

I'm jealous - enjoy the new project...

24 minutes ago, Mark said:

enjoy the new project...

Thanks Mark, a lot of new things to learn , but I enjoy it.

I have to share this. 

1 x 8000Va Quattro, 2 x 250/70MPPT and 1 Venus.. Connected to a 3Amp Laboratory power supply. Quattro swiched on, internal relays pulled in and inverting 48V input to 230V AC with no load connected.  Guess the amps/watts?

1.47Amp/70.5 Watts. 

My Infinis were consuming almost double that. (Each)

On 2018/12/02 at 7:00 PM, plonkster said:

Max current the quattro can draw from the battery's are 135 Amps at 48Volts. (less at higher) .............. 150 or 160 Amp protection fuse between battery bank and inverter.? (I have 160 Amps available)

I see you went with the 8kVA unit, so this doesn't apply, but regarding the fuse size discussion, 200A is recommended in the manual for a 5kVA Victron unit.

So:

I ordered 200A but in typical fashion a 160 Amp arrived. So I fitted it anyway, anyway it is still going strong after 8 months and I know of at least 2 occasions when the inverter came out on overload.

That said,

I would imagine the 8kVA manual recommends 300A or 320A for an 8kVa unit. I think 200A is just a wee bit too low for the 8kVA's peaking ability. (250A maybe, but then you're doing the same as me).

 

 

 

8 hours ago, phil.g00 said:

I would imagine the 8kVA manual recommends 300A

Correct but im installing 320Amp. 

 

2 hours ago, Jaco de Jongh said:

Correct but im installing 320Amp. 

Spot on.

Hi @Jaco de Jongh You can install, safely a 160 A in your system. Here we have the time versus current for NH fuses.

You can see that if current is round 300 A time is more than 100 s.

We shouldn´t forget the reason why we install a fuse. We don´t install to protect our inverters from overload; that thing do our inverters better than a fuse. We protect with a fuse to avoid damages in our installs from shortcircuit coming FROM batteries. So, if we have a 1000 Ah bank battery, its shortcircuit current could be 10.000 A (+-). Once we consider that, we can see in the table above that response time of fuse is less than 0.1 s. We should be sure concerning wires  can withstand that amount of current in 0.1 s.

Edited December 8, 20187 yr by Javi Martínez

In your signature appears your system is 16 Trojan T105, so battery bank is 48 V 400 Ah. We could suppose short circuit current of bank is 4000 A. 

In the table, for 4000 A, we can see time response for a 160 A fuse is 0.01 s and time response for a 315 A is 0.2 s. As you can imagine, it is better to have the lowest response time possible.

Edited December 8, 20187 yr by Javi Martínez

Negating inversion losses, on the battery side:

8000VA/48V =167A  possible sustainable full load draw from the batteries. 

I think a 160A fuse for 8kVa is too low.

Edited December 8, 20187 yr by phil.g00

45 minutes ago, phil.g00 said:

8000VA/48V =167A  possible sustainable full load draw from the batteries.

I am a bit confused here. 8000va = 6500w . 6500watt / 48V = 135.42Amps. 

 

8 minutes ago, Jaco de Jongh said:

8000va = 6500w

Why do you say that?

Genuinely puzzled.

Edited December 8, 20187 yr by phil.g00

5 minutes ago, phil.g00 said:

Why do you say that?

This unit was sold to me as a 8000va/6.5kw unit.  

 

Oh I see.

1. You need to rate your fuses for VA not for watts. Fuses only care about the current magnitude, not its phase relationship with the voltage. (the power factor).

2. The disparity between VA and watts is an AC concept, and we are talking about a DC fuse, on the input DC side VA = Watts.

I attach the Victron manual recommendations.