Hi Everyone

I trust you are all well.

I have 2 x 6KW Hybrid Inverters (Single Phase).  I am finding it challenging to get the most accurate parameters to set on the inverter.  Its been and back and forth/trial and error type situation between the installer and myself.  The common faluts that have been happening is either the inverter over charges or doesnt stop charging the solar batteries (on Only Solar OSO) or when Solar and Utility are set to charge the batteries it also overcharges.   

Im not mentioning the brand of my inverter purely because its pretty much an Axpert type inverter (they all have voltronic hardware - Axpert, Kodac, Mercer, Infini, etc etc).  Its the one with the round screen.  So in order to assist me, let me detail my current setup:

I have 24 x 445W Longi Solar Panels connected in 2 pairs of 12.
I have 3 x 10KW Solar Lithium Batteries 48v (200ah) soon to add a 4th 10kw.
1 Have 2 x 6KW Hybrid Solar Inverters (one is currently faulty so sending off for repairs), so only running 1 inverter with 12 solar panels until the one returns and works.

Current Settings are:
Program 00  - ESC (not relevant)
Program 01 - Output Source Priority selection  --> SBU (Solar to provide power as 1st priority, battery 2nd or together with solar, and Utility to power to loads if battery voltage drops to low level )
Program 02 - AC Input Voltage range --> APL (range between 90 - 280VAC).  I have changed between APL and UPS as the standard socket is 220v.  But not sure if it makes a difference?
Program 03 - Output Voltage -->230  (i have on my own set to 220v but technician sets back to 230v)  Not sure why 230 if sockets use 220 but i think the Utitilty current fluctuates between 220 and 233.
Program 04 - Output Frequency --> 50Hz
Program 05 - Solar Supply Priority --> LBU (solar provides power to loads as first priority)
Program 06 - Overload Bypass, when enabled unit will transfer to line mode if overload occurs in battery mode. --> BYD (disabled)  Im assuming because we dont grid feed - or should this be enabled?
Program 07 - Auto restart when overload occurs - Disabled (technician says dont want to keep restarting everytime)
Program 08 - Auto restart when over temperature occurs - Disabled (same reasonong as 07)
Program 09 - Solar energy feed to grid config - Disabled (have digital prepaid and no grid feed avail in my area)
Program 10 - Charger source priority - I have on OSO (only solar) but have used SNU (solar and utility to charge) if batteries go below 30%... however i prefer OSO
Program 11 - Maximum Charging current (to configure total charging current for solar and utility chargers - max utility + solar charging current). --> 60A (not sure if this is right)
Program 12 - not avaliable 
Program 13 - Maximum Utility charging Current -->30A I would assume 30A +30A from solar to charge if battery goes below a certain level and utility and solar are charging together.  But generally this will only be solar charging so Utility shouldnt come on much
Program 14 - Battery Type --> USE (user defined)
Program 15 - not available
Program 16 - not available
Program 17 - Bulk charging voltage (CV Voltage) -->53.8 (im not sure what bulk charging voltage for 3 x 10KW 48v Lithium batteries in series)
Program 18 - Floating charging voltage --> 49.5 (not sure what float charge for 3 lithium batteries.  I dont want the batteries to charge to 100% only 95%)... so no sure here as well
Program 19 - Low DC cut off battery voltage setting -->46 or 44v (technician has been changing this)
Program 20 - Battery stop discharging when grid is available --> 48v (not sure here)
Program 21 - Battery stop Charging voltage when grid is available --> 50v but sometimes set to FUL (full).  I need to charge only to 95%
Program 22 -Auto return to default screen --> stay on latest screen (technician set)
Program 23 - Backlight control --> on
Program 24 - Alarm Control --> on
Program 25 - Beeps when primary source interupted --> on
Program 27 - Record Fault Code --> disabled?
Program 28 - AC output mode --> PAL as we had the other inverter running.  Technician said it doesnt make a difference on 1 inverter as it wont find another 
Program 29 - Rest PV Energy Storage --> not reset?  not sure what to set here
Program 30 - Start charging time for AC Charger --> SEA00.0
Program 31 -  Stop charging time for AC Charger -->  SE000.0
Program 32 - Scheduled time for AC output on --> 0N00.00
Program 33 - Scheduled time for AC output off --> 0FF00.00
Program 34 - Set country customised regulations --> Ind - using India setting for South Africa?
Program 35 to 42 - not available
Program 43 - Lithium Battery turn on when device powered - Disabled
Program 44 - Lithium Battery turn on immediately --> Disabled
Program 45 - 59 - not avaliable
Program 60 - Low DC Cut off Voltage on AC output 2 --> 45.5v (not sure here... battery specified is USE so not sure if percentage comes up)
Program 61 - Setting discharge time on AC output 2 --> 30 or ddS - not sure here either
Program 62 - Scheduled time for AC output 2 on --> ON
Program 63 - Scheule time for AC output 2 off --> OFF
Program 64 - 94 - not availale
Program 95 - 99 - time settings not really relevant

I would appreciate any help one can provide to get the most accurate correct settings.

Kind Regards

Nick

 

Edited January 22, 20242 yr by NickPowell
clicked submit by mistake

Hi Nick since it's an axpert type inverter, the batteries will be in parralel adding up the amps to 300amph instead of series adding up the voltage. 

Starting from program 14, pyl is usually what most people use. Maybe your brand of batteries doesn't like pyl setting. It sounds like your inverter is a newer model with the round screen. The rest of the battery setting wouldn't matter if pyl is selected.

I'm asking if you tried to connect the bms? With a communication cable between the batteries and inverter.

Edited January 22, 20242 yr by Buyeye

43 minutes ago, NickPowell said:

Hi Everyone

I trust you are all well.

I have 2 x 6KW Hybrid Inverters (Single Phase).  I am finding it challenging to get the most accurate parameters to set on the inverter.  Its been and back and forth/trial and error type situation between the installer and myself.  The common faluts that have been happening is either the inverter over charges or doesnt stop charging the solar batteries (on Only Solar OSO) or when Solar and Utility are set to charge the batteries it also overcharges.   

Im not mentioning the brand of my inverter purely because its pretty much an Axpert type inverter (they all have voltronic hardware - Axpert, Kodac, Mercer, Infini, etc etc).  Its the one with the round screen.  So in order to assist me, let me detail my current setup:

I have 24 x 445W Longi Solar Panels connected in 2 pairs of 12.
I have 3 x 10KW Solar Lithium Batteries 48v (200ah) soon to add a 4th 10kw.
1 Have 2 x 6KW Hybrid Solar Inverters (one is currently faulty so sending off for repairs), so only running 1 inverter with 12 solar panels until the one returns and works.

My starting point will be to check the MPPT incoming voltage as 12 panels in series could be exceeding the about 450V Voc. 

Without the make and model of inverter this is just an assumption. 

Once this is within specs then one can continue. 

1 hour ago, Buyeye said:

Hi Nick since it's an axpert type inverter, the batteries will be in parralel adding up the amps to 300amph instead of series adding up the voltage. 

Starting from program 14, pyl is usually what most people use. Maybe your brand of batteries doesn't like pyl setting which it sounds lie your inverter has as it's a newer model with the round screen. The rest of the battery setting wouldn't matter is pyl is selected.

I'm asking if you tried to connect the bms? With a communication cable between the batteries and inverter.

hi there,
so the batteries and brand is GSO but if you look at the Axpert and Mercer, Infini etc all look like almost identical to this.  QR Code scan on side of inverter says Voltronic Power.  I actually opened the one thats faulty to try and repair and also noted the Axpert / voltronic boards.

I think we did battle quite a bit using the preset battery types Li B, Li C, I think they did try PYL but cant recall - guys were fiddling for a while.  Eventually got USE to work.

They made up their own BMS data cable so currently connected from BMS to RS485.   It is beeping currently as I think it looses comms or settings are off again as i adjusted when the batteries were getting overcharged.  We couldnt get the wifi app to work as yet.

I know each battery is connected in series as 1 is connected to the other, to the other, then one is made as Host and connected to BMS.  Charging  not evenly I would say so not sure if BMS is working as it should.  This morning it was on 78% host battery, 2nd battery 81% and 3rd battery 82%

So not sure to be honest.

1 hour ago, Scorp007 said:

My starting point will be to check the MPPT incoming voltage as 12 panels in series could be exceeding the about 450V Voc. 

Without the make and model of inverter this is just an assumption. 

Once this is within specs then one can continue. 

hi I think the technician did check this but will double check with him as I did say to get the solar panels to ensure correct and he did test that time.

 

Edited January 22, 20242 yr by NickPowell

1 hour ago, Scorp007 said:

My starting point will be to check the MPPT incoming voltage as 12 panels in series could be exceeding the about 450V Voc. 

Without the make and model of inverter this is just an assumption. 

Once this is within specs then one can continue. 

Got clarity from technician.

He said there are 5 to 6 panels per string and theres 2 strings per inverter.  And theres roughtly 270VDC 

52 minutes ago, NickPowell said:

Got clarity from technician.

He said there are 5 to 6 panels per string and theres 2 strings per inverter.  And theres roughtly 270VDC 

Sorry I missed it that there are 2 Inverters. A major oopsie!!!! 

Age is a bast.... d

At least batteries are charging under USR even if over charging. 

Now we can look at settings but a number of funnies that one must checn one by one. 

Will look later if I spot something. 

1 hour ago, NickPowell said:

Got clarity from technician.

He said there are 5 to 6 panels per string and theres 2 strings per inverter.  And theres roughtly 270VDC 

The panels sound like they are connected correctly.  Do you think you will be able to charge 40kwh of batteries with the current panels? And are you using 20kwh overnight?

Are you trying to have enough batteries for a few days which in that case you would not need to charge them to full every day but you do have to charge them to full atleat once a week for top balancing.

Edited January 22, 20242 yr by Buyeye

30 minutes ago, Buyeye said:

The panels sound like they are connected correctly.  Do you think you will be able to charge 40kwh of batteries with the current panels? And are you using 20kwh overnight?

Are you trying to have enough batteries for a few days which in that case you would not need to charge them to full every day but you do have to charge them to full atleat once a week for top balancing.

Yes those panels can easily produce 50kwh per day if sunshine day. Thus easy to charge the 20kWh discharged during the night and still power the load during the day provided it is not over 30 kWh.

The above depend on the area and direction and angle. 

Edited January 22, 20242 yr by Scorp007

26 minutes ago, Buyeye said:

The panels sound like they are connected correctly.  Do you think you will be able to charge 40kwh of batteries with the current panels? And are you using 20kwh overnight?

Are you trying to have enough batteries for a few days which in that case you would not need to charge them to full every day but you do have to charge them to full atleat once a week for top balancing.

hi well if 30KW of batteries are overcharging...im assuming 40KW would charge fine
Well im pretty much off grid if I can put it that way - borehole and solar.  However, I have 3 pumps and the whole house is connected.  I plan on installing a large heatpump for a swimming pool im putting in so hence the decision to add another battery...also there will be yet another pump for the pool as well (so 4 pumps...not necessarily all running at the same time)

Thats a good point though If I read in between the lines.  I could potentially set the timer to stop charging at some point however I was hoping to set this on the inverter so when battery reaches 95% to stop charging and when battery drops to below 45% to charge and if below 40 to charge with Utility as well.

32 minutes ago, Scorp007 said:

Sorry I missed it that there are 2 Inverters. A major oopsie!!!! 

Age is a bast.... d

At least batteries are charging under USR even if over charging. 

Now we can look at settings but a number of funnies that one must checn one by one. 

Will look later if I spot something. 

Great thanks.  Yes 2 inverters but ones faulty...sending for repairs as my troubleshooting and electronics experience does have a cap

Thanks any help would be great.  We did have it working fine at a point but i must say this was all trial and error and I just thought someone who knows can give me the actual parameters to use.

2 hours ago, NickPowell said:

Great thanks.  Yes 2 inverters but ones faulty...sending for repairs as my troubleshooting and electronics experience does have a cap

Thanks any help would be great.  We did have it working fine at a point but i must say this was all trial and error and I just thought someone who knows can give me the actual parameters to use.

As there are 2 types of lithium do you perhaps have the name and model of the batteries or even the charging details. 

4 hours ago, Scorp007 said:

As there are 2 types of lithium do you perhaps have the name and model of the batteries or even the charging details. 

Please see attached.  These are 200ah batteries

3 minutes ago, NickPowell said:

Please see attached.  These are 200ah batteries

I assume you have the standard 15 cell of 200Ah?

48 minutes ago, Scorp007 said:

I assume you have the standard 15 cell of 200Ah?

Correct 

thoughts anyone?

 

20 minutes ago, NickPowell said:

thoughts anyone?

 

We usually just follow manufacturer specified voltages if bms cable connection fails.

true

where do you set inverter charge limits? eg.  stop charging when batteries 95% and charge if batteries fall below 45%?

7 hours ago, NickPowell said:

true

where do you set inverter charge limits? eg.  stop charging when batteries 95% and charge if batteries fall below 45%?

Without BMS Comms, you have to rely on voltage settings, you cannot use SOC % based values

9 hours ago, NickPowell said:

true

where do you set inverter charge limits? eg.  stop charging when batteries 95% and charge if batteries fall below 45%?

I would leave setting 17 as is. 

Change 18 to 51V

Change 19 to 45V

Enable 60 to 44.5V for output 2 to stop discharging. 

This inverter has a number of settings I have not seen before on Voltronic inverters. 

These will be my starting point and can be fine tuned in use. 

Edited January 24, 20242 yr by Scorp007

3 hours ago, Scorp007 said:

I would leave setting 17 as is. 

Change 18 to 51V

Change 19 to 45V

Enable 60 to 44.5V for output 2 to stop discharging. 

This inverter has a number of settings I have not seen before on Voltronic inverters. 

These will be my starting point and can be fine tuned in use. 

Thanks have changed it.

 

Would you not change program 20 and 21?!

Also maximum combined charge (solar + utility) set to 50A or 60A...

On 2024/01/22 at 3:21 PM, Buyeye said:

Do you think you will be able to charge 40kwh of batteries with the current panels? And are you using 20kwh overnight?

Are you trying to have enough batteries for a few days which in that case you would not need to charge them to full every day but you do have to charge them to full atleat once a week for top balancing.

@Buyeye raises a pretty valid point here:

On 2024/01/22 at 3:52 PM, NickPowell said:

hi well if 30KW of batteries are overcharging...im assuming 40KW would charge fine
Well im pretty much off grid if I can put it that way - borehole and solar.  However, I have 3 pumps and the whole house is connected.  I plan on installing a large heatpump for a swimming pool im putting in so hence the decision to add another battery...also there will be yet another pump for the pool as well (so 4 pumps...not necessarily all running at the same time)
 

 

Does it rain at all where you live? Have you considered winter production being lower than summer?

Your array size will likely generate 55-65kWh per day in summer in perfect sunshine, but in winter it's going to drop significantly due to the shorter days (my own experience in Johannesburg indicates you can expect around 40-50kwh per day in winter for your array, on average). Which means even assuming you have no solar usage during the day (unlikely!), you're going to have a hard time fully charging soon-to-be-4 batteries (which need 40kWh alone plus charging losses). And if you add additional pumps (which are massive power hogs - my pool pump eats 8kwh per day by itself), these margins are going to be even tighter.

Likewise on a rainy day, you can expect production to plummet up to 80%.

 

Is your idea to keep some battery capacity on standby so that you don't need to worry about the burden of fully charging them from empty? Do you have an idea as to your household's daytime vs nighttime usage?

 

Solar energy is free but it's not always abundant and never fully predictable; so it always makes to minimize your demand as much as possible so that you're not relying on the utility whenever the weather doesn't behave. And then when the weather does fail you, an oversized array helps you cover your use as best as possible to minimize your utility costs.

Keeping usage low also prevents massive bills in the event that the array is ever partly out of service (like the faulty-inverter scenario you describe) or during extended periods of lousy whether.

 

Our daily household consumption used to be 60kwh a day; in preparation for solar (before putting up a single panel) we dropped it down to 45kWh and sized our array accordingly; solar ended up covering about 25-30 of those kWh per day in the summer. I've only now just pulled the trigger on doubling up the entire system (for a maximum of 60kWh per day whilst maintaining a 5.5-year return on investment period) with the intention of having more than I need on a sunny summer day (and perhaps feeding back the balance to grid in future) and exactly the right amount on a winter or cloudy day; with only rain forcing me back to grid. It makes sense to have more than you need (rather than trying to cut it fine with high demand) - to cater for mother nature being a somewhat cruel mistress sometimes!

Edited January 24, 20242 yr by JayMardern

6 hours ago, Scorp007 said:

I would leave setting 17 as is. 

Change 18 to 51V

Change 19 to 45V

Enable 60 to 44.5V for output 2 to stop discharging. 

This inverter has a number of settings I have not seen before on Voltronic inverters. 

These will be my starting point and can be fine tuned in use. 

Yeah the newer "Twin" output voltronics have a timer function

3 hours ago, NickPowell said:

Thanks have changed it.

 

Would you not change program 20 and 21?!

Also maximum combined charge (solar + utility) set to 50A or 60A...

Those 2 are great settings and not considered. They are to the user's requirements and needs to be changed when having LS or not. 

I don't like APL as a setting for no2 as the voltage range can be bad for some loads. I only use UPS. Too many people get flickering LEDs and PCs switching off due to the longer time to switch over when grid is lost. 

Due to rainy weather causes my winter yields for 2023 to be close to summer yield. Yes looking at peak yields in summer can be better than winter but systems all differ and no way can I say the next guy will have the same yield or better or worse than mine. LS is also another variable out of our control just like the weather. 

2023 yields in picture. 

12 hours ago, madness_za said:

Without BMS Comms, you have to rely on voltage settings, you cannot use SOC % based values

Yes true.  What would the voltage setting be then for 95% and 45%?  they are 48v 200ah batteries.

Thanks

Nick