July 13, 20242 yr On 2024/07/11 at 2:13 PM, system32 said: If I purchase R400, will CoJ only give me R170 of kWh R230 of tax ??? Last night I made a purchase for R400 and so I can tell you that you will get 62.5 units, the R200 charges paid, and the VAT on the units and the R200 paid.
July 13, 20242 yr 9 minutes ago, Bobster. said: Last night I made a purchase for R400 and so I can tell you that you will get 62.5 units, the R200 charges paid, and the VAT on the units and the R200 paid. Checking my purchase history I note that in April I spent a huge R150 and received 62.2 units. The stats that I keep show that I use an average of 60 units a month. I have a bit of a credit cushion on my meter, but I suspect that if I don't buy next month, the minimum purchase I will have to make to clear the arrears will become R800. Dis die wet van die Transvaal
July 18, 20242 yr On 2024/07/01 at 1:09 PM, system32 said: I understand there are ~275,372 prepaid meters in CoJ, so this will generate: R63.3m per month extra taxes for no improvement in service. Think again. Recent reports are that there are about 4.6 million paying residential properties connected to City Power, and about half of those are pre-paid.
August 5, 20241 yr Hi guys Has anyone not topped up their prepaid in July and now topped up in August? Conflicting reports about whether the R230 accumulates or not, so would be great to get practical confirmation. I normally only buy 500kwh a year so did that in June, but want to plan if this fee is building up in the background.
August 5, 20241 yr 20 minutes ago, Robbo said: Hi guys Has anyone not topped up their prepaid in July and now topped up in August? Conflicting reports about whether the R230 accumulates or not, so would be great to get practical confirmation. I normally only buy 500kwh a year so did that in June, but want to plan if this fee is building up in the background. Well it is R200 plus VAT per month. So I would expect it to start accumulating at some point. I wish they'd just add it as a line on the statement, then one could pay the surcharge and run one's meter as one likes. I topped up in July, so will not be in the position that you describe. Statements for the new month will be sent out in the next couple of days. Then you will be able to tell us.
August 5, 20241 yr 50 minutes ago, Bobster. said: Well it is R200 plus VAT per month. So I would expect it to start accumulating at some point. I wish they'd just add it as a line on the statement, then one could pay the surcharge and run one's meter as one likes. I topped up in July, so will not be in the position that you describe. Statements for the new month will be sent out in the next couple of days. Then you will be able to tell us. I agree with you, but the sabc had reported it wouldnt accumulate on a page that has now been taken down, so hoping for a miracle On statements, are you thinking it will be on your municipal bill even though its prepaid?
August 5, 20241 yr 4 hours ago, Robbo said: I agree with you, but the sabc had reported it wouldnt accumulate on a page that has now been taken down, so hoping for a miracle On statements, are you thinking it will be on your municipal bill even though its prepaid? What if the amount is for the person renting. The normal municipal bill goes to the owner of the property.
August 5, 20241 yr 4 hours ago, Robbo said: I agree with you, but the sabc had reported it wouldnt accumulate on a page that has now been taken down, so hoping for a miracle On statements, are you thinking it will be on your municipal bill even though its prepaid? The R200 is ONLY for prepaid accounts. Postpaid accounts already have service charges, and they add up to much more than R200. That's why it's cheaper (still) to go prepaid.
August 5, 20241 yr 12 minutes ago, Scorp007 said: What if the amount is for the person renting. The normal municipal bill goes to the owner of the property. NB! Me no lawyer. But I would think it depends on the lease and on the type of meter. If I were renting out a property, I'd make sure it had a prepaid meter, and I'd leave it to the tenant to feed the meter. Where it may get complex is where there's a third party meter involved. I don't know how that would work. Edited August 5, 20241 yr by Bobster.
August 5, 20241 yr 3 minutes ago, Bobster. said: The R200 is ONLY for prepaid accounts. Postpaid accounts already have service charges, and they add up to much more than R200. That's why it's cheaper (still) to go prepaid. Sorry.... I think I misread the question. I don't KNOW how or if they are going to indicate arrears on the statement. Certainly statements for properties with a prepaid meter now have a heading for electricity.
August 5, 20241 yr Just now, Bobster. said: Sorry.... I think I misread the question. I don't KNOW how or if they are going to indicate arrears on the statement. Certainly statements for properties with a prepaid meter now have a heading for electricity. That is true, and I get your point now. Maybe I'll give it another month and put in R100 in September and see what happens. In theory then you should buy more in 1 month to avoid the fixed fees for the months to come, up until the units get more expensive. Will report back
August 5, 20241 yr It's a monthly fee. And also the City has the power to recover arrears (any arrears, as we make one payment for all services) from electricity purchases before providing any electricity. I buy through FNB, and I get a warning about this every time I buy.
August 5, 20241 yr 43 minutes ago, Bobster. said: NB! Me no lawyer. But I would think it depends on the lease and on the type of meter. If I were renting out a property, I'd make sure it had a prepaid meter, and I'd leave it to the tenant to feed the meter. Where it may get complex is where there's a third party meter involved. I don't know how that would work. Nothing wrong if you make sure there is a prepaid meter. Isn't it fair that the tenant must be able to see how units are bought and see this levy. The tenant will depend on you supplying some kind of statement? I have seen some tenants not even getting a statement in over 6 months for rent that was paid. Even more of a problem if the owner relocated outside of ZA.
August 5, 20241 yr 26 minutes ago, Scorp007 said: Nothing wrong if you make sure there is a prepaid meter. Isn't it fair that the tenant must be able to see how units are bought and see this levy. The tenant will depend on you supplying some kind of statement? I have seen some tenants not even getting a statement in over 6 months for rent that was paid. Even more of a problem if the owner relocated outside of ZA. Well anybody can buy units for my prepaid meter if they have the serial number. No questions asked. But a lot is left to the vendor. Where I live there are complaints that you just get a receipt showing rands spent and units supplied. That's totally inadequate, but it's down to the vendor. I buy online, via my bank, and I get a detailed breakdown (on the app and via SMS). People who buy at Spar and Shoprite seem to get less detail. But there's nothing a landlord can do about this other than suggest they buy via their bank. Which is more convenient. You don't have to go anywhere, the token comes straight to your phone. This is more difficult for people of a certain age or with less exposure to technology. You can go to a supermarket to buy airtime and present them your phone and ask the cashier to load it. But you can't do that with a prepaid meter. Edited August 5, 20241 yr by Bobster. people of a certain age etc
August 5, 20241 yr 7 hours ago, Robbo said: Hi guys Has anyone not topped up their prepaid in July and now topped up in August? Conflicting reports about whether the R230 accumulates or not, so would be great to get practical confirmation. I normally only buy 500kwh a year so did that in June, but want to plan if this fee is building up in the background. I never bought in July. I bought R400 in August to test and the R230 from July did not carry over. I received my 62.5 units
August 5, 20241 yr 5 minutes ago, slipx said: I never bought in July. I bought R400 in August to test and the R230 from July did not carry over. I received my 62.5 units Please let us know what your statement looks like.
August 5, 20241 yr 14 minutes ago, slipx said: I never bought in July. I bought R400 in August to test and the R230 from July did not carry over. I received my 62.5 units Yes please!
August 5, 20241 yr 6 hours ago, slipx said: I never bought in July. I bought R400 in August to test and the R230 from July did not carry over. I received my 62.5 units On 21 July I bough R300 via FNB (my usual purchase) According to the FNB bill: R150 went to service fee. R150 went to 46.90 tokens (kWh) => R3.20/kWh incl VAT of 35.3%??? VAT was R39.13 VAT on R150 of tokens (kWh) should be R19.565 (15%) CoJ seem to have included all the VAT in the R150 for the tokens (kWh). R150-R39.13VAT = R110.87 / 49.90kWh => R2.364 which corresponds with the CoJ advertised rates. Is it legal to charge 35.3% VAT? My next purchase of R300 will be on 21 Aug... Edited August 5, 20241 yr by system32
August 6, 20241 yr 7 hours ago, system32 said: On 21 July I bough R300 via FNB (my usual purchase) According to the FNB bill: R150 went to service fee. R150 went to 46.90 tokens (kWh) => R3.20/kWh incl VAT of 35.3%??? VAT was R39.13 VAT on R150 of tokens (kWh) should be R19.565 (15%) CoJ seem to have included all the VAT in the R150 for the tokens (kWh). R150-R39.13VAT = R110.87 / 49.90kWh => R2.364 which corresponds with the CoJ advertised rates. Is it legal to charge 35.3% VAT? My next purchase of R300 will be on 21 Aug... As indicated before VAT is charged on the units bought as well as on the service/network charges. Thus not 35%. Only the rates are not taxed. Edited August 6, 20241 yr by Scorp007
August 6, 20241 yr 9 hours ago, system32 said: On 21 July I bough R300 via FNB (my usual purchase) According to the FNB bill: R150 went to service fee. R150 went to 46.90 tokens (kWh) => R3.20/kWh incl VAT of 35.3%??? VAT was R39.13 VAT on R150 of tokens (kWh) should be R19.565 (15%) CoJ seem to have included all the VAT in the R150 for the tokens (kWh). R150-R39.13VAT = R110.87 / 49.90kWh => R2.364 which corresponds with the CoJ advertised rates. Is it legal to charge 35.3% VAT? My next purchase of R300 will be on 21 Aug... It's not legal to charge 15% VAT, but you weren't charged at the greater rate you calculate. The service fee also attracts VAT, so part of the total VAT charged was on the R150. That's 22.50 of the total VAT for the purchase. The service fees on pre-paid meters are R200 per month before VAT. After VAT it is R230.
August 6, 20241 yr 6 hours ago, Scorp007 said: As indicated before VAT is charged on the units bought as well as on the service/network charges. Thus not 35%. Only the rates are not taxed. 4 hours ago, Bobster. said: It's not legal to charge 15% VAT, but you weren't charged at the greater rate you calculate. The service fee also attracts VAT, so part of the total VAT charged was on the R150. That's 22.50 of the total VAT for the purchase. The service fees on pre-paid meters are R200 per month before VAT. After VAT it is R230. Can you guys check my calculations - maths was never my strong point - here is the FNB purchase: Thanks in advance for the help with my maths.
August 6, 20241 yr 6 minutes ago, system32 said: Can you guys check my calculations - maths was never my strong point - here is the FNB purchase: Thanks in advance for the help with my maths. Heres how I read it: You pay R300 They take off the service fee which is R150 + R22.50 (VAT at 15%) = R172.50 Now you have R300 - R172.50 = R127.50 left to purchase electricity. Rate per kwh is (as you have above) R2.3634 + VAT. So R2.7179/kwh incl VAT Now R127.50 divided by the R2.7179 = 46.91kwh which agrees to what you got.
August 6, 20241 yr 36 minutes ago, Robbo said: Heres how I read it: You pay R300 They take off the service fee which is R150 + R22.50 (VAT at 15%) = R172.50 Now you have R300 - R172.50 = R127.50 left to purchase electricity. Rate per kwh is (as you have above) R2.3634 + VAT. So R2.7179/kwh incl VAT Now R127.50 divided by the R2.7179 = 46.91kwh which agrees to what you got. Thanks, that makes some sense: R172.50 (inc VAT) to service fee R127.50 (inc VAT) to units Does not correspond with the bills R150/R150 split shown on the purchase detail above Edited August 6, 20241 yr by system32
August 6, 20241 yr 2 hours ago, system32 said: Thanks, that makes some sense: R172.50 (inc VAT) to service fee R127.50 (inc VAT) to units Does not correspond with the bills R150/R150 split shown on the purchase detail above The R150 service fee was without VAT and Robbo pointed it out in his post. Thus only R127.50 bought units and the VAT is correct at 15%.
August 7, 20241 yr 18 hours ago, system32 said: Thanks, that makes some sense: R172.50 (inc VAT) to service fee R127.50 (inc VAT) to units Does not correspond with the bills R150/R150 split shown on the purchase detail above How did you buy the token? I bank with FNB, and I buy using their app on my phone. I get a detailed breakdown of the purchase, on the app and via SMS. But other folks in my area buy at supermarkets and they report getting a slip that, in your case, would say they paid R300 for 46.9 units. Those folks can't believe the increase the City has imposed on them. So it seems to me that some vendors have made a better job of this than others. That receipt you got is plain wrong. Makes no mention at all of VAT, which they are required to.
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