July 1, 20242 yr 16 minutes ago, system32 said: The rules for Cape Town are kinder to Solar PV - no net-zero and better rate. I said "for now", because they have permission for two years from date of application to add a 25c per unit incentive, and to waive the net user requirement. But not indefinitely. So going fowards they would have to re-apply for a relaxation of the net-consumer requirement, if it suits them to do so.
July 1, 20242 yr OK... Let me get the calculator out 5 hours ago, Carl Anthony said: Today I wanted to test to see this service charge story…only bought R300, 50% of that went towards the service fee and got 46.90 units for the remaining R150. OK... at new tariffs those units will cost R2.3634 plus VAT So 46.9 * 2.3634 * 1.15 = 127.47 That leaves us R300 - 127.47 = 172.53 R150 plus VAT = 172.50 So, yes, @Scorp007 is right and the fixed charges do attract VAT. Edited July 1, 20242 yr by Bobster.
July 1, 20242 yr wait a minute, the 12% increase is seperate from this service fee? They have also requested a 36% increase in 2025, right? Electricity is becoming unafforable. it's insane
July 2, 20242 yr Would this R200 service fee affect me? I live in a complex which uses a 3rd party for prepaid electricity but the complex's COJ electricity account is not prepaid.
July 2, 20242 yr 1 hour ago, phidz said: Would this R200 service fee affect me? I live in a complex which uses a 3rd party for prepaid electricity but the complex's COJ electricity account is not prepaid. That's up to the company that runs that service. But the complex's account will get whatever increase is specified in the new tariffs, so you are going to pay more. Edited July 2, 20242 yr by Bobster.
July 2, 20242 yr 17 hours ago, Jakac said: wait a minute, the 12% increase is seperate from this service fee? They have also requested a 36% increase in 2025, right? Electricity is becoming unafforable. it's insane Yes. There is a flat fee for providing the service, then a 12.75% (I think that's the number) increase per unit. A draft document from Eskom was found, saying 36% to their customers and more to municipalities, but this is not a formal request they have made to Nersa yet. We don't know. Though I wouldn't go down to the bookies and put money on a decrease. Edited July 2, 20242 yr by Bobster.
July 3, 20242 yr On 2024/07/01 at 2:17 PM, Carl Anthony said: "City Power will over the next few years gradually subject the prepaid customer to a more appropriate contribution to the cost of supplying the particular customer" Get the Vaseline ready for ever increasing service tax & capacity tax on prepaid electricity. NERSA only controls the c/kWh. The service tax & capacity tax are able to be escalated by CoJ by any amount. The service tax is to read your prepaid meter - what a scam. Additionally the c/kWh are higher than post-paid. We don't pay a "capacity" or "service" fee to PnP, Shell, SPAR, McDonald, MTN, VodaCom etc for providing a service - this is a complete scam. CoJ has been using the idea of indigent / low category to make it seem that they being reasonable - they know that 95% of indigent households are not registered: "95-97% of all indigent households in the Johannesburg metropolitan municipal area are not on the city’s Indigent Register and therefore the residential prepaid high tariff applies." See https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2024-06-13-johannesburgs-indigent-households-set-to-be-hammered-with-massive-electricity-price-increases/ This is a tax on law abiding low and middle class ratepayers that is estimated to bring in R63.3m per month from the 275,373 pre-paid customers. Vote them out or move. Edited July 3, 20242 yr by system32
July 3, 20242 yr 59 minutes ago, system32 said: Vote them out or move. Voting them out won't make any difference. For a start, Johannesburg is still quite cheap as electricity goes compared to other metros. Then any new government will first say "well that's the budget that was approved for the financial year and we can't change it now", then will notice that they are sitting on a cash cow and leave it in place. It's always worth remembering that the first attempt to introduce this flat fee was when Herman Mashaba was mayor and a party now in opposition were running the show. When the public went ballistic, they offered the excuse that the surcharge had been edited into the budget after sign off. Yeah right. It is very amusing to see the cheek of the party that Mashaba now leads, and the party for whom he was mayor at that time, kicking up a stink about this now when it was them that tried it in the first place. But it's not amusing for very long. Johannesburg has had something like 7 mayors and executives in the last 9 years (it's difficult to keep count). One consequence of this is that nothing is anybody's fault, and the can can always be kicked down back down the road to some previous administration who will then kick it even further back. Nothing is anybody's fault. Parties will complain about decisions that they themselves made or were party to. Remember the old saying. It doesn't matter who you vote for: A politician will always get in.
July 3, 20242 yr Author A huge source of frustration isn't just that pricing went up, it's also that it was mostly communicated quite poorly, and publishing the details so close to when they come into effect can make it challenging to budget appropriately for said changes. Also their simplified infographic doesn't come close to telling the whole story.
July 3, 20242 yr 2 hours ago, JayMardern said: A huge source of frustration isn't just that pricing went up, it's also that it was mostly communicated quite poorly, and publishing the details so close to when they come into effect can make it challenging to budget appropriately for said changes. Also their simplified infographic doesn't come close to telling the whole story. Yes. The info they are supplying now to explain the new tariffs is incomplete. The surcharge was never a secret. It's been known for months that it was going to be in the budget. What was never explained, or what was never communicated by some councillors*, is HOW it was going to be implemented. The City have been quite clever here (or sneaky, depending on which side you are on). They could have just added R200 plus VAT to the bill. But the way they have done it means you must spend a minium of R400 a month on pre-paid, even if you don't want all those units. If you don't have solar it is just R200 plus VAT over and above what you would have bought anyway. That's already not nice. We don't like to see our bills go up (though we know that every year they will). But if you have solar AND prepaid, now you are forced to buy a certain amount of electricity each month. *I say this because in my ward confusion reigns and our councillor has provided zero clarification or information, even when directly asked and so we are figuring it out for ourselves. In the ward next door the councillor is saying "but I've been telling you for three months how things are going to be and you didn't listen." Both councillors represent the same party.
July 11, 20242 yr On 2024/07/03 at 12:48 PM, Bobster. said: Yes. The info they are supplying now to explain the new tariffs is incomplete. The surcharge was never a secret. It's been known for months that it was going to be in the budget. What was never explained, or what was never communicated by some councillors*, is HOW it was going to be implemented. The City have been quite clever here (or sneaky, depending on which side you are on). They could have just added R200 plus VAT to the bill. But the way they have done it means you must spend a minium of R400 a month on pre-paid, even if you don't want all those units. If you don't have solar it is just R200 plus VAT over and above what you would have bought anyway. That's already not nice. We don't like to see our bills go up (though we know that every year they will). But if you have solar AND prepaid, now you are forced to buy a certain amount of electricity each month. *I say this because in my ward confusion reigns and our councillor has provided zero clarification or information, even when directly asked and so we are figuring it out for ourselves. In the ward next door the councillor is saying "but I've been telling you for three months how things are going to be and you didn't listen." Both councillors represent the same party. Trying to find out the rules for low kWh users of CoJ prepaid. I use ~160kWh per month and was purchasing ~R380 per month. If I purchase R400, will CoJ only give me R170 of kWh R230 of tax ??? What's the rule for low purchases? I read CoJ documents on joburg.org.za -> Key Documents -> Tariffs -> Approved Tariffs For 2024/25 https://joburg.org.za/documents_/Pages/Approved-Tariffs-For-202425.aspx and can't find details.
July 11, 20242 yr 7 minutes ago, system32 said: Trying to find out the rules for low kWh users of CoJ prepaid. I use ~160kWh per month and was purchasing ~R380 per month. If I purchase R400, will CoJ only give me R170 of kWh R230 of tax ??? What's the rule for low purchases? I read CoJ documents on joburg.org.za -> Key Documents -> Tariffs -> Approved Tariffs For 2024/25 https://joburg.org.za/documents_/Pages/Approved-Tariffs-For-202425.aspx and can't find details. Normally the low use at low rate is for indigent registered costumers. If you were hoping not to pay the service fee. The way I understand it even if using 1kWh the fee stands.
July 11, 20242 yr Was looking at a some options to reduce fees since I'm a low use user as well. Assuming you pay each month and want to cover the service fee Paying every other month to cover service fee and top up
July 11, 20242 yr Does not help you buy every second month as per this article they bill you R230 every month.. https://businesstech.co.za/news/trending/780279/the-new-r2800-prepaid-electricity-tax-you-cant-escape/
July 11, 20242 yr It does help. You always have to pay the fixed cost as it carries over each month, but you are not forced to buy units when you pay in arrears. Look at the calcs. In August you pay R630. They deduct the outstanding July, then you pay for August. At least that's how I understand it Edited July 11, 20242 yr by slipx
July 11, 20242 yr 2 hours ago, Scorp007 said: Normally the low use at low rate is for indigent registered costumers. If you were hoping not to pay the service fee. The way I understand it even if using 1kWh the fee stands. This is correct. In this context "low" is a euphemistic way of saying "indigent". It is nothing to do with how much electricity one uses, and so they could have thought of a better name (in COCT there is a "lifeline" tariff). Besides, they used the word "indigent" elsewhere in the budget documents. On the low tariff, if you qualify and have applied, you will not pay the R200 plus VAT, you will get the first 350 kWh per month at a discounted rate. Then you pay the regular rate up to 500 units. Then you pay more per unit once you exceed 500 units in the month. Which seems fair enough. If you really are that poor (and the bar you have to walk under is set low) then how come you need that much electricity? There was a proposal a couple of years ago that there be a reduced tariff for homes that were prepared to accept a 20A connection and did not have any external source of power. But that got vetoed in political arguing over the budget. and in the end the poor just got the same percentage increase as everybody else. That might have been a good solution. Really it's load limiting on a 24/365 basis.
July 11, 20242 yr 58 minutes ago, Bobster. said: This is correct. In this context "low" is a euphemistic way of saying "indigent". It is nothing to do with how much electricity one uses, and so they could have thought of a better name (in COCT there is a "lifeline" tariff). Besides, they used the word "indigent" elsewhere in the budget documents. On the low tariff, if you qualify and have applied, you will not pay the R200 plus VAT, you will get the first 350 kWh per month at a discounted rate. Then you pay the regular rate up to 500 units. Then you pay more per unit once you exceed 500 units in the month. Which seems fair enough. If you really are that poor (and the bar you have to walk under is set low) then how come you need that much electricity? There was a proposal a couple of years ago that there be a reduced tariff for homes that were prepared to accept a 20A connection and did not have any external source of power. But that got vetoed in political arguing over the budget. and in the end the poor just got the same percentage increase as everybody else. That might have been a good solution. Really it's load limiting on a 24/365 basis. I do like the places that allow you to downgrade your MCB to say 30 or 40A and have some financial gain instead of 60A. That also ensures you do not use a lot of power to charge batteries directly after a LS event. A cheap method by just keying in a token when on prepaid.
July 12, 20242 yr 18 hours ago, Scorp007 said: Normally the low use at low rate is for indigent registered costumers. If you were hoping not to pay the service fee. The way I understand it even if using 1kWh the fee stands. I understand the indigent tier and I don't qualify. From what I've read from @Bobster. it seems that you need to buy a minimum of R400, of which R230 is the new tax. eg. If I buy only R100 prepaid for 12 months (I'm away) what happens? Edited July 12, 20242 yr by system32
July 12, 20242 yr 15 hours ago, Bobster. said: <SNIP> There was a proposal a couple of years ago that there be a reduced tariff for homes that were prepared to accept a 20A connection and did not have any external source of power. But that got vetoed in political arguing over the budget. and in the end the poor just got the same percentage increase as everybody else. That might have been a good solution. Really it's load limiting on a 24/365 basis. As a Solar + Battery, this 20A connection reduced tariff would work for me. Sadly CoJ unlikely to offer this.
July 12, 20242 yr 43 minutes ago, system32 said: From what I've read from @Bobster. it seems that you need to buy a minimum of R400, of which R230 is the new tax. Careful! People get very upset when we say it's a "tax". Not just COJ. Chris Yelland was on the news the other night and was very emphatic that it was not a tax. I think we should call these things "more money out of our pockets". 43 minutes ago, system32 said: eg. If I buy only R100 prepaid for 12 months (I'm away) what happens? Ja. It's not properly thought out. I used to pre-load my meter when I was going on holiday, but that might not work anymore. I'd have liked to have seen another line item on my statement, leaving me to manage my meter as I like. But they have done it the way they have to force us to buy every month.
July 12, 20242 yr 47 minutes ago, system32 said: As a Solar + Battery, this 20A connection reduced tariff would work for me. Sadly CoJ unlikely to offer this. The offer was a 20A connection AS LONG AS you don't have solar or wind power. It was aimed at the truly poor people. The RDP houses all got solar geysers and so have some hot water. This is where smart meters come in. Once they have smart meters rolled out, they can limit load for an area, an individual property, the whole city.
July 12, 20242 yr 11 minutes ago, Bobster. said: Careful! People get very upset when we say it's a "tax". Not just COJ. Chris Yelland was on the news the other night and was very emphatic that it was not a tax. I think we should call these things "more money out of our pockets". Ja. It's not properly thought out. I used to pre-load my meter when I was going on holiday, but that might not work anymore. I'd have liked to have seen another line item on my statement, leaving me to manage my meter as I like. But they have done it the way they have to force us to buy every month. Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax Quote A tax is a compulsory financial charge or some other type of levy imposed on a taxpayer (an individual or legal entity) by a governmental organization [CoJ] in order to collectively fund government [CoJ] spending, public expenditures, or as a way to regulate and reduce negative externalities. This new R230 seems to fit quite well with Wikipedia definition. I have ~1500kWh in my meter and am trying to run it down to a lower kWh over the 12 months so I'm currently purchasing R300 per month.
July 12, 20242 yr 5 minutes ago, system32 said: Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax This new R230 seems to fit quite well with Wikipedia definition. I have ~1500kWh in my meter and am trying to run it down to a lower kWh over the 12 months so I'm currently purchasing R300 per month. I was trying to be jocular, but that's a risky proposition on a forum like this, unless I add lots of smilies and <sarcasm>. I don't much care if they call it a tax or a surcharge or a connection fee or whatever, it's money out of my pocket. I am split about this one because I can see their reason for it, but it is still more money that I have to lay out each month.
July 12, 20242 yr 1 hour ago, Bobster. said: I was trying to be jocular, but that's a risky proposition on a forum like this, unless I add lots of smilies and <sarcasm>. I don't much care if they call it a tax or a surcharge or a connection fee or whatever, it's money out of my pocket. I am split about this one because I can see their reason for it, but it is still more money that I have to lay out each month. I think we enter into samantics. This remains a network charge. Nothing different to the Admin fee on insurance, bond, bank account, investments account, medical aid etc. Cost to the provider even if just staff and IT systems. Even if one likes it or not in how it's done. Other munics have had it for some time so no different.
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