June 26, 20241 yr These seem to be approved/finalized now: From: https://joburg.org.za/documents_/Pages/Approved-Tariffs-For-202425.aspx Direct link: https://joburg.org.za/documents_/Documents/Consolidated Tariffs 20242025.pdf They seem to be slowly eroding the benefit of Prepaid; at least in the solar space. 😐
June 27, 20241 yr 12 hours ago, JayMardern said: These seem to be approved/finalized now: From: https://joburg.org.za/documents_/Pages/Approved-Tariffs-For-202425.aspx Direct link: https://joburg.org.za/documents_/Documents/Consolidated Tariffs 20242025.pdf They seem to be slowly eroding the benefit of Prepaid; at least in the solar space. 😐 So the slide listing the increase ignores the capacity and service charge of R200 as per below the picture on the right?
June 29, 20241 yr Here's some more confusion. In an interview with SABC a spokesperson from City Power said “However, should the customer at the beginning of the month purchase electricity for less than R400, the payment will be split between covering the fixed charge and charges for consumption of electricity to ensure that the customer gets some kWh with every purchase until the minimum purchase threshold of R400 is reached. It will however not be possible to accumulate non-payment of the total basic charge beyond one calendar month.” So what's that? We have to buy a minimum of R400 each month? I had assumed that the fixed fee would just be added to our bill.
July 1, 20241 yr Service Charge has been implemented, bought via FNB App...R150 service fee was taken 🤬
July 1, 20241 yr What amount did you purchase as the service fee is supposedly R230 if they only took R150 when will they take the remaining R80? what happens if you only by next month again? will they then take the R230 + R80 you where short charged? this will cause more issues i think.
July 1, 20241 yr 43 minutes ago, Carl Anthony said: Service Charge has been implemented, bought via FNB App...R150 service fee was taken 🤬 But that's not the entire fee for the month, so you will have to buy more. If I may ask, how much did you spend and how was this aportioned between units and service charges?
July 1, 20241 yr 5 minutes ago, Bobster. said: But that's not the entire fee for the month, so you will have to buy more. If I may ask, how much did you spend and how was this aportioned between units and service charges? Correct not the full fee, usually buy R1000 on the 1st which in warmer months last us the full month. During the colder months we usually buy another R500 towards the last week of the month. Today I wanted to test to see this service charge story…only bought R300, 50% of that went towards the service fee and got 46.90 units for the remaining R150. Will update on the next purchase and let you know will buy R1000 next…
July 1, 20241 yr 10 minutes ago, Carl Anthony said: Correct not the full fee, usually buy R1000 on the 1st which in warmer months last us the full month. During the colder months we usually buy another R500 towards the last week of the month. Today I wanted to test to see this service charge story…only bought R300, 50% of that went towards the service fee and got 46.90 units for the remaining R150. Will update on the next purchase and let you know will buy R1000 next… Thanks so much. This is a valuable information. To address one point that was raised: It's my understanding that the R230 cannot be carried over, even in part, from month to month. So it seems we are going to be forced to buy a certain amount of prepaid every month. People of a certain age will remember an Afrikaans saying about "die wet van die Transvaal".
July 1, 20241 yr 5 minutes ago, Bobster. said: People of a certain age will remember You calling us old?! 🤣
July 1, 20241 yr OK... two of my neighbours report buying > R400. R200 was taken straight off the top (no VAT) and the rest was used for the actual purchase. Edited July 1, 20241 yr by Bobster.
July 1, 20241 yr 1 hour ago, Bobster. said: OK... two of my neighbours report buying > R400. R200 was taken straight off the top (no VAT) and the rest was used for the actual purchase. I'm on CoJ prepaid. My CoJ June statement has an additional row for Prepaid Electricity:
July 1, 20241 yr On 2024/06/26 at 10:40 PM, JayMardern said: These seem to be approved/finalized now: From: https://joburg.org.za/documents_/Pages/Approved-Tariffs-For-202425.aspx Direct link: https://joburg.org.za/documents_/Documents/Consolidated Tariffs 20242025.pdf They seem to be slowly eroding the benefit of Prepaid; at least in the solar space. 😐 For CoJ Is it viable to sell excess Solar to CoJ to cover costs? Can I cover more than just costs and pay my whole bill or make a profit? Edited July 1, 20241 yr by system32
July 1, 20241 yr 4 minutes ago, system32 said: Is it viable to sell excess Solar to CoJ to cover costs? Can I cover more than just costs and pay my whole bill or make a profit? AIUI you have to go onto the reselllers tariff, you need a new meter, and there's a net consumer requirement IE you cannot sell back more than you actually consume. They pay the NERSA rate per unit. If you're on pre-paid already then I can't see how it is possible to recover the flat charges that are included in the resellers' tariff. Drop into your nearest City Power branch and get clarification. Edited July 1, 20241 yr by Bobster.
July 1, 20241 yr 9 minutes ago, system32 said: I'm on CoJ prepaid. My CoJ June statement has an additional row for Prepaid Electricity: Also been on prepaid since 2017, that line only started showing from Jan 2024.
July 1, 20241 yr 3 hours ago, Carl Anthony said: Correct not the full fee, usually buy R1000 on the 1st which in warmer months last us the full month. During the colder months we usually buy another R500 towards the last week of the month. Today I wanted to test to see this service charge story…only bought R300, 50% of that went towards the service fee and got 46.90 units for the remaining R150. Will update on the next purchase and let you know will buy R1000 next… Ok update...also had some neighbours on the group chats complaining about the service fee. Purchased a R1000 now, remaining service fee of R50 was deducted and the remaining R950 went to the allocation of units = 341.20 So recap for my spend so far: Total Spent = R1300 Total Service Fees = R200 Total on units = R1100 = 388.10 units Previously for R1000 on day 1 of the new month I would get 406 units. I will now need to spend about R1400 to get the same/similar number of units as before...absolute bunch of BS.
July 1, 20241 yr 3 minutes ago, Carl Anthony said: Ok update...also had some neighbours on the group chats complaining about the service fee. Purchased a R1000 now, remaining service fee of R50 was deducted and the remaining R950 went to the allocation of units = 341.20 So recap for my spend so far: Total Spent = R1300 Total Service Fees = R200 Total on units = R1100 = 388.10 units Previously for R1000 on day 1 of the new month I would get 406 units. I will now need to spend about R1400 to get the same/similar number of units as before...absolute bunch of BS. Yes, it hurts us. But thanks for providing this information.
July 1, 20241 yr 15 minutes ago, Carl Anthony said: Ok update...also had some neighbours on the group chats complaining about the service fee. Purchased a R1000 now, remaining service fee of R50 was deducted and the remaining R950 went to the allocation of units = 341.20 So recap for my spend so far: Total Spent = R1300 Total Service Fees = R200 Total on units = R1100 = 388.10 units Previously for R1000 on day 1 of the new month I would get 406 units. I will now need to spend about R1400 to get the same/similar number of units as before...absolute bunch of BS. I used to spend a couple of hundred every 2 or 3 months. I will now have to spend R400 every month.
July 1, 20241 yr Author 1 hour ago, system32 said: For CoJ Is it viable to sell excess Solar to CoJ to cover costs? Can I cover more than just costs and pay my whole bill or make a profit? 1 hour ago, Bobster. said: AIUI you have to go onto the reselllers tariff, you need a new meter, and there's a net consumer requirement IE you cannot sell back more than you actually consume. They pay the NERSA rate per unit. If you're on pre-paid already then I can't see how it is possible to recover the flat charges that are included in the resellers' tariff. Drop into your nearest City Power branch and get clarification. Feed-in rates are listed here: https://joburg.org.za/documents_/Documents/Approved-Tariffs-for-2024-25-Financial-Year.pdf Section 6: "EMBEDDED GENERATION TARIFF", snippet below, this confirms what @Bobster. indicates:
July 1, 20241 yr 36 minutes ago, Bobster. said: I used to spend a couple of hundred every 2 or 3 months. I will now have to spend R400 every month. What happens if I don't buy prepaid for 3 months? Will I have to pay 3x230 on my next purchase? I understand there are ~275,372 prepaid meters in CoJ, so this will generate: R63.3m per month extra taxes for no improvement in service. Also in the OP, CoJ don't mention the total increase Why is there an R70+VAT admin fee on prepaid? R2,360.57 - R1,916.76 = R443.81 increase per month R2,714.66 - R2,204.27 = R510.38 increase inc VAT per month or 23.2% increase - not the 12.72% they brag about. I use ~300kWh per month, which results in a 45% increase - this is unaffordable. Edited July 1, 20241 yr by system32
July 1, 20241 yr 2 minutes ago, JayMardern said: Feed-in rates are listed here: https://joburg.org.za/documents_/Documents/Approved-Tariffs-for-2024-25-Financial-Year.pdf Section 6: "EMBEDDED GENERATION TARIFF", snippet below, this confirms what @Bobster. indicates: Thanks for that - net zero is anti-solar. Since I only use about 300kWh per month from the grid. 85% of my consumption comes from the sun. Seems there is zero financial incentive to grid feed and help CoJ (they have load reduction issues).
July 1, 20241 yr 4 minutes ago, system32 said: What happens if I don't buy prepaid for 3 months? Will I have to pay 3x230 on my next purchase? I don't know, and I'm not sure I want to find out the hard way. But all the real life examples we are getting say it is R200 a month, not R200 plus VAT. 4 minutes ago, system32 said: I understand there are ~275,372 prepaid meters in CoJ, so this will generate: R63.3m per month extra taxes for no improvement in service. Not all of those pre-paid meters will attract the fixed charges. Remember that the City is splitting pre-paid users into two categories. "Low" users, IE indigent folks, do not pay the fixed charges. However, if they exceed 500 units in the month, they will start paying more per unit than you or I would.
July 1, 20241 yr 3 minutes ago, system32 said: Seems there is zero financial incentive to grid feed and help CoJ (they have load reduction issues). I know we get occasional visits from one person who claims to be making an actual profit reselling in Cape Town, but I don't hear many such stories for residential properties with solar from anywhere in SA. My cynical theory is that the municipalities all say "yes, OF COURSE you can sell back your excess production", and then set the tariffs up so that you can, but you'd be stupid to do so. IE they don't want it, not from individual residences. Even if the tariff looks not so bad (as in Cape Town, and for now), there is still the cost of the meter.
July 1, 20241 yr 8 minutes ago, Bobster. said: I don't know, and I'm not sure I want to find out the hard way. But all the real life examples we are getting say it is R200 a month, not R200 plus VAT. Not all of those pre-paid meters will attract the fixed charges. Remember that the City is splitting pre-paid users into two categories. "Low" users, IE indigent folks, do not pay the fixed charges. However, if they exceed 500 units in the month, they will start paying more per unit than you or I would. Thanks for the info on the VAT. CoJ normally publish Electricity Rates excl VAT (c/kWh excl VAT) From what I've read, there are few registered indigent consumers with CoJ CoJ claim from central government for the FBE based on census data and pocket 95-95% of the FBE money. Some 95-97% of all indigent households in the Johannesburg metropolitan municipal area are not on the city’s Indigent Register See https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2024-06-13-johannesburgs-indigent-households-set-to-be-hammered-with-massive-electricity-price-increases/ This will only reduce the 275,393 prepaid by a maximum of 5%. Edited July 1, 20241 yr by system32
July 1, 20241 yr 3 minutes ago, Bobster. said: I know we get occasional visits from one person who claims to be making an actual profit reselling in Cape Town, but I don't hear many such stories for residential properties with solar from anywhere in SA. My cynical theory is that the municipalities all say "yes, OF COURSE you can sell back your excess production", and then set the tariffs up so that you can, but you'd be stupid to do so. IE they don't want it, not from individual residences. Even if the tariff looks not so bad (as in Cape Town, and for now), there is still the cost of the meter. The rules for Cape Town are kinder to Solar PV - no net-zero and better rate. Just the meter is expensive - they are getting cheaper meters. Edited July 1, 20241 yr by system32
July 1, 20241 yr 31 minutes ago, Bobster. said: I don't know, and I'm not sure I want to find out the hard way. But all the real life examples we are getting say it is R200 a month, not R200 plus VAT. The document I read shows that all amounts are excluding VAT. Normally all services attract VAT but not the rates amount. If we look at other real accounts they also levy VAT on every charge. Edited July 1, 20241 yr by Scorp007
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