51 minutes ago, KLEVA said:

PS: For most people doing their own installations is not only DANGEROUS, but also illegal...

It is not illegal to do the install yourself. You do need to have an electrician check your work to get your CoC and it is illegal to commission without a CoC. 

 

18 minutes ago, jdp said:

BTW I installed my own system. I had 3 sparkies here ant they all looked at me if I was talking Greek. So I decided to read-up and do it my self.

I think a lot of us followed that route. Mine was prompted by a R400k + quote. I then looked at installing a 2kW system and realised that it was better for me to go the whole hog.

TTT - Nice, but I still see that comment as an extension to Priority 1 - Definitely not last, that is maybe between 1 & 2 if we need another step...

Chris & JDP - You right, but even as a qualified electrician, you have no idea how I screwed up my own install. As JDP said, many have no idea (like I didn't) of how to actually go about even doing the work, never mind the CoC. I believe there is a completely separate section and qualification for Solar installations now that is an extension of the SANS 10142 (I don't do electrical as my daily work, so haven't kept up with the code).

Despite the cost, if I had a second choice, I would've gotten a qualified installer to do the job. Even when I thought I knew what was involved, there are some shocking (pun intended) learning curves. I had to learn them here on this forum (before I signed up, because I was a bit embarrassed to relate my mistakes... was a ghost watcher for at least 3 weeks until I realised that I wasn't the only one learning)

Kleva - most of us learnt about solar here. I can guarantee that in 4 months time you will confidently be giving advice. I am a sheep farmer the closest thing I have to a qualification for solar is Physics I at varsity, some practical experience with a 32V battery system,  and the belief that it cannot be too hard to install. I like you ghost followed forums for a while and did my install over 2 weeks or so. Taking my time meant I could check and re-check my work as I progressed. Connected the inverter and batteries first and had to wait about a week for a DC circuit breaker before I connected the panels.

The problem is most of the folk who sell you the kit don't really know what you need. Having done the research YOU know what you need (or want TTT) and can buy appropriately.

Same here, been researching this for almost two years before I did my install.

And really the knowledge shared here has been very help full. If you plan on doing something for a next phase put your ideas and parts here and have more eyes looking and maybe spotting something you missed 

1 hour ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

Priority 4 - charge controller
Buy right that you can expand.

Man, this is such a hard thing to get right. Nowadays I think you really should start with two smaller units (rather than one big one) right from the start, and there really isn't much choice when it comes to small MPPTs: Victron BlueSolar. The small ones aren't actually that expensive. It's the two big boys (150/70 and 150/85) that hurt the pocket.

The smaller Victrons, incidentally, are all made in China by an OEM outfit. The two big boys are made in The Netherlands, at least as far as I know.

So why do I say that? Because you will feel much less teary-eyed if the unit fails and it doesn't leave you stranded with no charge at all AND out of pocket for the higher purchase price. I tell you, you buy the 40 amp unit with an eye on expanding, and then the darn thing blows up before you get there :-)

Jip, the tears are always close.

Thought I was clever way back and got 310w panels, volts at max power is 36.3v and current of 8.6a, or 9a short circuit.

Why? Less panels = less mounting. YES, that made sense.

So, lets get a controller ... that is when I learned that although it is just a 930w array, 36.3v / 45.35v open circuit, they do not match smaller controllers easily. It is a 'strange' voltage for a panel, as one supplier mentioned back then. Reason being, these panels where ideally meant to be for grid tied inverters, where you need high volts, less panels.

 

He he - was just thinking a lessons learned section might be in order Especially for those that think they can "Do it cheap"

To start with:-

• Episode 1 (Not really, but my smack in the face, should wake up others):Buying 1 x Axpert, 3 Panels and 4 x 100 Ah batteries is only 50% of your cost and it isn't going to replace your dependency on Grid power! Huge first lesson! Do some Maths!
• Episode 1a: Research, spending time to understand the tech/batteries/invertors and all the other seemingly complicated topics.
• Episode 2: Do you need Solar replacement or just a emergency backup?
• Episode 3: Optimising your home for Solar - LED Lights, Solar Geyser, Gas options, etc
• Episode 4: Installing yourself trying to save cost is going to cost you more in the long run unless you really know what you doing!
• Episode 5: Batteries, Batteries, Batteries - A cheap purchase is usually a bad purchase! Can replace/add panels, but batteries are like buying a pet - its a commitment!
• Episode 6: Safety/Grounding - High DC Power is deadly (makes big sparks/scary ). connections specific to your install
• Episode 7: Mounting panels - Seriously, it is incredibly difficult to get installers to even quote (what's up with that?), so how can you correctly mount the panels yourself (on the cheap (like me) or properly.

Add more episodes people...

1 hour ago, KLEVA said:

Episode 7: Mounting panels - Seriously, it is incredibly difficult to get installers to even quote (what's up with that?), so how can you correctly mount the panels yourself (on the cheap (like me) or properly.

I did a ground install so I have access to the back of the panels. I used Tekscrews to attach the panels to the frame rather than those fancy brackets. R100 to attach 12 panels. I have 6 panels that have been attached to a similar frame for a submersible pump and it has lasted 5 years so far, so it does work.

Chris gets Episode 7 - Do you realise you will have to write it?

I am serious about setting up a dummies guide, on this forum or on one of my websites, think we need one... Dummies for Solar Installations - Not quite for Dummies!

I think Energy was trying to get something like that with Download section. I will make a video when I have had my system for a year. By then I will have my system the way I want it. The weather has cooled down so we can work in the loft and do the final finishing bits and pieces but farming has kicked into top gear.

 

I think you must get someone else for Episode 7 since if it is on the roof (as 95% of panels are) I have no experience.

 

 

Episode 1c - How not to incorrectly connect batteries so they melt lugs, destroy your favourite t-shirt and give you burns on your hands and chest...
Episode 1d - How not to have your metal battery cabinet short out your battery cable connectors
Episode 1e - Positive is the Plus sign!

Installing panels on a roof ... actually needs a bit of consideration of what say 100km/h storm gust can do.

And mounting panels behind a roof's nok, also has an impact on how the wind behaves coming over the roof.

For example my roof supplier advised me not to use the clamps I though was right for their sheets. Apparently the sheets can be pulled from their clips under certain conditions.

I built a scale model of my panel setup. Glad I did as I found the best was to set them up. ThibkI still posted some photos when I did it. 

Hi, I just saw your post now (bit late) but thought I would reply because it might help.

Microcare:  I have installed 30 of their inverters and have not had a failure.  I had one 60A MPPT that just stopped working (dead as a doornail).  They apologised profusely and replaced it immediately and they sent my client (as the registered warrantee owner) a "sorry for the inconvenience" note.  I think there are many good inverters out there with similar warrantees.  The local support I deem to be very important and I think the cost is very good for what you get. 

Trojan:  In my opinion some of the best lead acids out there.  I just bought locally assembled Lithium Iron Phosphate battery that compares on cost over the life of the battery and carries a 10 year warrantee in solar application.  I suspect the time may have come to consider the technology seriously, also from a cost point of view.  I am going to test it first before I will be comfortable to recommend it, but very much worth considering.

In terms of balance of your system.  You should easily generate twice the kWh per day that you will need to put back into the batteries if you used 30% during the night, leaving the other half for "direct" consumption.  Assuming your day / night usage is sort of 50 / 50 that sounds about right.

Dont know the solar panels but have heard good things.

Oh and that Microcare battery monitor is actually very nice.  My customers love them as you can get usable historic stats and grahps without having to hook it up to a PC.

Welcome to the Forum Hannes.

Although I agree with you about Trojan, the amount of maintenance needed is not always practical for a nearly "Leave and Forget" system. If your customer is "lazy" then Trojans/Lead Acid might be a bad choice, no matter what other kit you put in. You have to know your customer...

I think I once replied to one of Hannes' facebook posts... :-) I remember the name and the Microcare equipment.

Thank you very much for your contribution Hannes.  I am still not committed to Microcare, but I like the people and I have confidence in them.  I was very pleased to read your letter of support.  It sounds like you are an installer and I may well PM you if that is OK?  Where are you based?

This would be my preferred solar setup.

Ultimate Solar Setup.pdf

Some comments:

1) One device looking after your batteries.

2) Full solar PV available during load shedding

3) Save on cabling (voltage drop and I²R losses) as grid tie inverters Input voltage range is high. 

4) Grid Tie inverters typically about 95 % efficient compared to about 80% for Regulator / Inverter system.  (Charge regulator 90%, Inverter 90%)  

5) Regulator / Inverter system ideally requires battery bank sizing that can cope with your full solar PV generation capability. (I.e you need a fairly large expensive battery)

6) Flexible battery sizing options. (Eg. you could size the batteries for just a 3 hour backup on your critical loads.) 

7) Export excess solar power through Bi directional inverter to non critical loads.

8) If on prepaid install a grid limiter to prevent feedback to grid.

9) If registered as an embedded Generator then feedback excess solar to grid.

 

 

On 16/04/2016 at 7:12 AM, KLEVA said:

Welcome to the Forum Hannes.

Although I agree with you about Trojan, the amount of maintenance needed is not always practical for a nearly "Leave and Forget" system. If your customer is "lazy" then Trojans/Lead Acid might be a bad choice, no matter what other kit you put in. You have to know your customer...

Yeah true that about the maintenance. Not install and forget so only for the right clients!

On 16/04/2016 at 9:13 AM, plonkster said:

I think I once replied to one of Hannes' facebook posts... :-) I remember the name and the Microcare equipment.

That could have been me indeed. Nice to see.a civilised discussion where people respect each others views! 

On 16/04/2016 at 0:33 PM, Richwost said:

Thank you very much for your contribution Hannes.  I am still not committed to Microcare, but I like the people and I have confidence in them.  I was very pleased to read your letter of support.  It sounds like you are an installer and I may well PM you if that is OK?  Where are you based?

Hi, yes I think Microcare have come a long way. The products are not flashy so not for all but they work well and knowing it can be repaired cheaply out of warranty is a positive for me. I am an installer based in Durbanville yes.  I started doing this after not applying what I studied (electronic engineering) for 15 years and loving every day.  I do some days miss the office aircon when on the roof in 35 deg heat though!