2 hours ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

Do not lower you standards to Z'inc's or Africa's. We must strive for better. 

Oh, once again don't get me wrong. I'm not saying they should be allowed to do that... I'm saying IF I was a skelm like that... then I'd be a much cleverer skelm, and if some of my exploits were to come to light (aka scandal) I'd stay under the radar for a while. You remember the biblical story of the Unjust steward? His master actually commends him on being so clever... though he is still fired :-)

2 minutes ago, plonkster said:

Oh, once again don't get me wrong. I'm not saying they should be allowed to do that... I'm saying IF I was a skelm like that... then I'd be a much cleverer skelm, and if some of my exploits were to come to light (aka scandal) I'd stay under the radar for a while. You remember the biblical story of the Unjust steward? His master actually commends him on being so clever... though he is still fired :-)

Ag dankie tog, I thought we are lowering our standard. 

EDIT: If I was skelm, you would not catch me, or at least, catch me only when it is too late, I am gone. Much more fun.

Bottom line now that we are going to be clever skelm, do we worry about the refineries not being kept up to date or in tip top shape, or not?

23 hours ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

We can stock up on food, most definitely, but then I always think back to a chat on a forum in 2008, when one poster said what they did on their farm to be self sustainable ito water, electricity and food. 

Then one poster dryly commented about have's (the minuscule minority) and the have not's (the overwhelming majority) when they spot said farm and ransack it.

Then the have's, have not, and the have not's still have nothing.

I so do not want to be a Doomsday Prepper nor Prophet but die dinges weet, cANCer is playing with fire on all fronts with Z'inc getting desperate.

People adapt. Always have, always will. I am not sure about your parts of the world, but around here many of the "have not's" already know how to get what they want, and what they need. Many folk in the townships already plant some food for themselves. They have basic lighting (no need for expensive solar systems) and basic heating sorted out. Many years ago already. 

In fact, I personally think it's the "have's" that will suffer most once the oil resources are no longer available. You and I, the people who rely on the internet, who rely on cellphone towers, who rely on food and clothing companies that transport a lot of nice stuff all over the country will suffer most. 

TinkerBoy already has a nice water reservoir setup. Mine is a bit smaller. I'm sure Chris Hobbs also has something like that already. Planting food aint that difficult either. We've been planing stuff for a couple years now, purely cause some stuff in the shops are way too expensive for my liking. The bigger problem comes with keeping a sheep / cow / pig in the yard, in the city. And then slaughtering it would be another problem. But, somehow we'll adapt there as well. Communications is a whole new problem!

Why do I bring up communications? Well, if the oil resources are gone (for whatever reason), the current economy we know will suffer badly. People will loose their jobs and infrastructure will collapse. It's a ripple effect. Solar / wind energy alone won't entirely fix it. Not until someone with deep pockets have build ships, cargo planes and 60Ton truck that can reliable run / sail / fly on solar + batteries alone. 

9 minutes ago, SilverNodashi said:

Why do I bring up communications?

Yup, back when there was that threat of a whole grid collapse, this also came up. Sure, you have solar power, you have water, you have food in your backyard... but the backup battery in the local DSLAM is dead in 8 hours. If your job (like mine) relies on that connectivity, you're screwed. You may survive (for a while), but you cannot pay bills. By the time the grid reboots 3 weeks later you're a month behind on ALL your bills. If such a thing happens, you will literally have no choice but to get into a car and go somewhere where you can do your job. And that will only work if you have enough non-local clients...

So yes. Absolutely. There's a lot that can completely screw up the lives of the have's.

Plant sunflowers, produce oil, use it to drive your tractor and old tech diesel bakkie. There's an easy way to protect against zombies when the apocalyse occurs, just tie their shoelaces together.

10 minutes ago, DeepBass9 said:

There's an easy way to protect against zombies when the apocalyse occurs, just tie their shoelaces together.

ROFL!!!

1 hour ago, plonkster said:

Yup, back when there was that threat of a whole grid collapse, this also came up. Sure, you have solar power, you have water, you have food in your backyard... but the backup battery in the local DSLAM is dead in 8 hours. If your job (like mine) relies on that connectivity, you're screwed. You may survive (for a while), but you cannot pay bills. By the time the grid reboots 3 weeks later you're a month behind on ALL your bills. If such a thing happens, you will literally have no choice but to get into a car and go somewhere where you can do your job. And that will only work if you have enough non-local clients...

So yes. Absolutely. There's a lot that can completely screw up the lives of the have's.

Without the grid, most cellphone sub towers, ATMS's and garages will  last 2/3 days. Larger data centers, banks, malls, clinics, etc a couple of days until their gensets run empty. 

Those with solar plants will still operate but many external operations will come to a halt as well. 

 

So, yes, we need to worry about this. 

In other words, unless SA stands up and sorts the trouble makers, we could have a silent problem brewing, one we will only find out about, like Eskom, when the refineries start stumbling and there are the first vestiges of select areas with no fuel.

Another case point, the fuel reserves that where sold off with not a word until it was too late.

Then again, while it does immediately screw up the lives of the haves, think about the ripple effect. Half your work force immediately don't have to come to work anymore. In service industries, people who work on commission or earn tips... they are practically out of work almost immediately. Super markets run empty. Farmers can't plant the next season's crops. In a matter of weeks or maybe months your have-nots will be have-even-less.

I will carry on as normal until first pump breaks down. I will probably die before then as I survive due to chronic medication.

Ja, that is another thing, Chronic medication and other electronic devices to keep people alive.

Was thinking:
Comms, if it goes down, country goes.
Water dries up, select regions will have serious problems.
Eskom goes, country goes - but Zuma visited Eskom and said no more power failures, so we are sorted. But then ... http://www.bdlive.co.za/business/energy/2016/09/06/tina-joemat-pettersson-refuses-to-provide-papers-on-nuclear-plans is a huge issue for it will drain our finances as a country.
Fuel goes, country goes - this is a new worry with Chevron pulling out, and they are now funding nuclear?
Inevitable downgrading of SA - nuclear and other is helping it on quite nicely - the have-nots suffer a bit more, the middle class have's start heading towards have-nots. The rich get richer.

We have no army nor police force to assist with riots. We have no reserves whatsoever.

We need to sort the problem child sooner rather than later.

But I do see some light, they are starting to fight between themselves: http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2016-09-06-the-anc-in-2016-pushing.-shoving.-hurting./#.V86yfZh96Uk

BUT, a concern I mention before, the transition was too smooth, re. the 3 new metros. Today the frustrations are aimed at Z'inc, tomorrow, when nothing changed, where will it the focus on?

Marikana was a eye opener for me. How far can the have-nots be pushed? How far will the they go to contain civil unrest?