Willem

I have unfortunately already installed them... 😉

I have unfortunately already installed them... 😉

Super excited, went to pick up my 3 5kv multiplusses and venus gx from the couriers...
Remembered now, the unit has been used for a short while as loadshedding backups but not used hard at all, and they still have bulk of the warrantee left, so happy with the purchase...
 
A huge shoutout to [deleted by mod, commercial suppliers are to register with Powerforum] for an awesome deal on these, and sorting out the courier costs!! 
 
 

So a brief background... I've been on the forum for a while, although relatively silent.
I almost bought a solar installation company in 2012, but things turned out completely different, maybe for good but still my keen interest in solar was still always there...
In 2014 I had some capital and was planning to do a solar install but then 2016 the decision went to drill a borehole first, so solar was delayed again...
mid 2020 I decided to take on the solar once more, and this time it looks like things will happen.
My budget, around R120k for starters, then we'll see over time where we go. I planned initially to go for batteries with warrantees, but am now strongly thinking about building a bank myself as I can about double my capacity with the same money...
 
Planned system:
I planned a system with a 8kw Sunsynk, 7kw PV and 10kwh batts for starters. Then last week an add popped up for three 5kva multiplus units. A year old but never been installed and still under warrantee. So I picked up the units for R15k ex vat each, including a Venus GX. And there goes my budget... haha
So I'm picking up he inverters from the couriers this morning.
Secondly I am busy with a deal for a smartsolar 250/100, which will hopefully go through today, holding thumbs. If i get the mppt then I'll stick with that for the start. 
So this weekend it will be making lists of hardware needed.
Current planned day for switch flip is 31 March 2021... Let's see how it progress. I will update the thread regularly for those interested and also I'll appreciate if those that have done this can give me pointers and warnings where they see needed, if they so wish..

Transporting the 76 ton Nacelle all of a sudden becomes a bit more tricky when you attempt it on a 14 - 16% incline on a gravel road.. Front truck is a Actros 6x6 with 15 ton ballast for traction, secon truck is a 8x4 actros hooked onto the 8 axle with a fifth wheel, both trucks needs torque converter for these type of slopes in order for when you get stuck to be able to pull away again.
Total combination weight is about 140 tons.
 

 
 
Reaching the top
 

 
 
Nacelle installation with Nacelle spreader bar/lifting gear visible. The lifting gear to lift the nacelle alone weights about 3.5 tons.
 
 

 
Same as above zoomed out.
 

Have anyone bought anything from this store?
http://www.bonanzatech.co.za/index.php?id_product=7894&controller=product
The price on the infini is really good and I'm seriously considering ordering one...
Does anyone have warrantee info on the infini?
 
 
 
 

TTT it's not that complicated at all!! For me that's the whole problem about solar, people tend to make it too complicated by what they expect and want to do with solar. If you have a greater need for what solar can provide comfortably then yes it can become very complicated, as flying with a car can become very complicated... ;-)
To start off with, if the inverter was tested and acting like it should (if it's on the list for being tested and passed the test) there is no safety risk. So you are still abiding by the regulations and safety standards. I would not install an inverter which doesn't adhere to the safety specs. I will even go so far as to maybe using it if I at least tested it myself to make sure it conform to the spec. and in turn abiding by the regulations of only installing the right type of inverter.  And there's devices which you can install to make off spec inverters acceptable, like the limiters for the microcare units I think.
I'm fully aware that some inverters are more complicated to get working when the grid is off, simply because they are not primarily designed to do that. That's why you need the right unit for what you want and need. 
You can add a small battery bank without damaging the batteries. BUT on your part you need to know what you can and can't expect from the batteries. If you have solar available but also need a batt bank to keep the inverter running, and also need the batt bank for when you start up devices that has a spike when starting up like electric motors, nothing will happen to the batteries. It will simply draw the spike for the few seconds from the batteries. After all when the solar goes down when the sun set and you still want to continue using electricity you'll only have very little capacity before the inverter shuts down the battery bank at the safe discharge voltage that you will set to discharge the batteries to whatever pre-decided level in order to reach a certain life span on the batts. My point with the battery bank was that in the case of the axpert for instance, you do not need a large bank to make the inverter work, but you do need one. even during the day when you'll never pull anything off the bank. It will be complicated and very difficult to use all electricity that the panels generate while the grid is off without batteries. Actually in might be impossible. What you are trying to do then is creating your own little supply network that's being used at as close to 100% of capacity as possible. And that's the definition of an unstable system. Will all due respect, I think what might be making it complicated is what you expect from your solar system?? That's why the SunnyBoy greatly reduce the rating off the inverter when grid is off (and call it emergency power), to keep the inverter stable.
It goes without saying that you cannot or will have to pay a lot of money to just continue using electricity after sunset when the grid is out. But this should be obvious and not expected from anyone that knows the basics of electricy use and demand. And for me the electricity demand management and cutting thereof is important to understand and implement long before you even install or spec your system. And that's the other problem, some people just want solar without changing their elec. use and habits. You can do that but it will be very costly. For me it's all part of one thing, wiser electricity use. Solar is simply a small part of that, which is cheaper and cleaner supply of a part of the supplied electricity. I've started long ago changing to solar water heating, efficient lighting, and gas cooking etc, adding solar to that whole picture is merely the last step for me in completing a switch to more sustainable electricity use. And in the process over the long run I also aim for some saving on electricity bills. I downed the house in summer from 24 - 27 units a day to 11 - 14 and winter from 35+ to around 18 - 20.
If you have a gas stove, and don't use a geyser element or oven etc and don't switch on or use hair dryers and washing/dishwasher machines etc. after dark then you'll be surprised with how little you can get along basically for lightning and other small stuff. You can even turn of you freezer, and maybe keep the fridge running.
My need from a potential battery bank is simply keeping my inverter stable when the sun is shining (so not effectively using batt capacity) and inhouse lighting for after dark. I'm not bothered for the rest concerning power outages. I realise that this is not the case for everyone, but it's some of the things that makes my solar setup not that complicated and easier to spec... ;-) 
Like I mentioned before, I will have two parallel circuits of which one will switch off when the grid goes, automatically reducing the load on the inverter and batteries to the bare necessities, that way I'll be using the panels and batt bank only as a backup system.
 
I'm fully aware of the demand changes of solar being added to the grid.  But remember articles like the one you posted the link to is not applicable to south africa. our situation here is very different to developed countries with a large part of the population that will never go solar, nor can they afford to. Also if they use the frequency management on the inverters like also mentioned in the article this problem can be managed. So it's not as much the solar as it's the management thereof. And that in turn for me is the challenge from the authorities side that they embrace and manage this in a way that makes it attractive to specifically home owners to use solar more. And currently they are not doing that.
The way I have my usage organised and changed to fit a solar supply curve better I very seldom have a huge spike in the late afternoon, most of my use is during the day when there's normally some amount of sun... so my idea with solar is to level out my high demand during daylight to get to a more flat curve of low basic use. 
 
 
 

If I have feedback disabled or a limiting device they can go fly a kite... The R400 plan is for the admin fee for bi-directional metering. If you chose to go solar and register without going on the R400 plan then as far as I can remember they come and install a plain prepaid meter. It's actually the same as the bidirectional one but with feedback disabled. So then what happens is if you do feedback it will also subtract units. So it's then in your best interest to make absolutely sure you do not feed back as you'll be paying for every unit that you feed back. What is non negotiable for them is to have an inverter certified for use in SA so that when the power is switched off you don't electricute a person maybe working on the box outside. It's a safety issue for them. So the inverter must be certified that it will shut down to the grid once the grid drops.
So I'll comfortably use a feedback disabled inverter with my normal disk meter. If they give me hasles then they are welcome to come and install a prepaid meter if it gets to that.
 
 The question for me is if you can run it off solar only without batteries. If you can I would only use it for basic power so not starting any pumps or heavy loads. The way I'm planning on doing this is to run two supplies in my db after my inverter. When grid drops it must drop the contactor for the "luxury" circuit.  Alternatively just get a very small battery bank for backup purposes.

If I have feedback disabled or a limiting device they can go fly a kite... The R400 plan is for the admin fee for bi-directional metering. If you chose to go solar and register without going on the R400 plan then as far as I can remember they come and install a plain prepaid meter. It's actually the same as the bidirectional one but with feedback disabled. So then what happens is if you do feedback it will also subtract units. So it's then in your best interest to make absolutely sure you do not feed back as you'll be paying for every unit that you feed back. What is non negotiable for them is to have an inverter certified for use in SA so that when the power is switched off you don't electricute a person maybe working on the box outside. It's a safety issue for them. So the inverter must be certified that it will shut down to the grid once the grid drops.
So I'll comfortably use a feedback disabled inverter with my normal disk meter. If they give me hasles then they are welcome to come and install a prepaid meter if it gets to that.
 
 The question for me is if you can run it off solar only without batteries. If you can I would only use it for basic power so not starting any pumps or heavy loads. The way I'm planning on doing this is to run two supplies in my db after my inverter. When grid drops it must drop the contactor for the "luxury" circuit.  Alternatively just get a very small battery bank for backup purposes.

I'm trying to find a spec sheet on the Danfoss inverters. Could anyone else find something?
 
I saw on the net that Danfoss and SMA signed into some deal with regards to their inverters in May 2014... So maybe a reason to get rid of old Danfoss stock?
 
From what company is this? Maybe it's a very cheap option to start off with...

What do you guys think of these??
 
http://www.solarsolved.co.za/index.php/products/solar-panel/jinko-solar/jinko-panels-260watt-detail 
 
260 watt jinko panels at R6.80 excl vat but without a Warrantee... for every 4 you buy you get one free at that price... could be your warrantee but in the meantime you also use them...

Yes charging preference can be set.
 
I've again went through most of the documentation that I could find to make sure that I understand it correctly myself.
 
Basically is short what I could make out is. 
Max DC converted to AC is 3kw, doesn't matter the combination...
 
Max AC able to be delivered is 6kw, and because of the above a max of 3 of the 6kw can be supplied from DC (or all that's available up until 3kw), the rest from AC.
 
So in other words when at night where you have zero PV and the batteries have reached their discharge limit you should still be able to pull 6kw straight from the grid! Please correct me if I'm wrong...
 
So this would mean that it's infact a 6kw hybrid unit with a 3kw inverter inside, and that if grid is available it will always be able to deliver a max of 6kw...
I might have understood it wrong in that I thought when no DC is available it will only be able to supply 3kw from the grid, but according to documentation and as superdiy mentioned, it looks like 6kw all the time regardless, as long as the grid is available?
 
Think I'll have to start saving for one... as some of you have already said earlier, it makes splitting some of the loads in your DB unnecessary...

TTT I think the logic for that one was an example to explain what the inverter can do.
 
But If you run 2 kw off your solar, and you switch on something that's using a lot more current for a short period of time, it just means it can back it up with drawing another kw from the batteries to use the full 3kw capacity from the inverter, and then when you need more it can pull in another 3 kw from the grid.
Obviously you would never size your system to bargain on this, but it's a feature that puts the inverter in a higher class than a standard 3kw one because of the ability to combine inputs and double the output, given you have enough solar and batt power available, the periods you use this feature will probably be very short, but the inverter is able to do that where a normal 3kw would have tripped.

TTT
 
According to the manual you can enable or disable the discharge at night only function.
 
In addition to that you can set two different DOD's, DOD with grid, and DOD without grid. DOD = degree of discharge?
Edit: wiki says if Depth of Discharge
 
Not sure what he uses to calculate...
 
Edit: thinks it might use voltage but certainly not a linear calculation. You can set it for lead acid or litium batts, should have different curves that it uses to do the calculations. If it's really clever it will adjust the curves after some operation to fit the specific batts. But I'm not sure it's that clever... but then again a non linear calculation should be sufficient enough. You might find that when the bats gets old you might loose some capacity, so the DOD will then obviously be that of the current capacity... meaning that when 20% DOD with a new batt gives 4kwh of energy to use, as the batt gets older the 4kwh will reduce with the capacity of the battery...

TTT I think the logic for that one was an example to explain what the inverter can do.
 
But If you run 2 kw off your solar, and you switch on something that's using a lot more current for a short period of time, it just means it can back it up with drawing another kw from the batteries to use the full 3kw capacity from the inverter, and then when you need more it can pull in another 3 kw from the grid.
Obviously you would never size your system to bargain on this, but it's a feature that puts the inverter in a higher class than a standard 3kw one because of the ability to combine inputs and double the output, given you have enough solar and batt power available, the periods you use this feature will probably be very short, but the inverter is able to do that where a normal 3kw would have tripped.