introverter

Neither used nor installed. Any of the inverters should probably handle the peak loads but heating a pre-cooked meal in the microwave while quickly blowdrying the hair could have some unintended blackouts on the 3kW inverters I would think (especially if the fridge/freezer decides to do some special murphy's law type synchronised firing up the compressor). If mum is okay with being aware of the things "plugged in" or generaly fine to know "ah yes, should have waited before dryinhg my hair..oh well" it should not be a major issue. With everything on the "want to power list" for 4 and/or 8 hours your problem will be battery capacity (granted that likely not all loads/appliances will be used every time there is an 8 hour outage.. but who knows?) Bluenova kit has 2800Wh capacity, the Pylontech based systems have 2400Wh capacity (neither the bluenova or pylontechs will have all of that number useable). (Wish load) 500W x 4 hours ~ 2000Wh (bluenova does a bit better here than pylontech) (Wish load) 500W x 8 hours ~ 4000Wh (neither will get you to the finish line) With the 5kW inverter you might want to confirm whether having only the one pylontech battery affects the inverter warranty. If seriously thinking about adding solar at some stage keep in mind the current mine field of what may legally be connected to the grid and what not (even if not having any intention to feed back to the grid)... I suspect all the mentioned systems could run into problems there. By the way, the bluenova is a 24V system and the growatt/kodak ones are 48V. If doing a similar system with lead acid batteries it could be cheaper on initial cost than lithium based systems. For load shedding specific application, where depending on the stage of load shedding you could have multiple sessions in one day, I think lead acid battery life can be cut short a bit if the time available for charging requires a high charge current or the battery is repeatedly undercharged because of a charge interruption due to the next stage of load shedding. Space required on lead acids will be roughly double. Should you want/need to replace the bluenova LiFePO4 batteries you will potentially have to use exactly the same type of "lead acid drop-in replacement" batteries since 24V lithium battery options are not that plentiful (they do exist - pylontech actually has a 24V battery and amongst others bluenova and freedomwon produce the mentioned drop-in replacements).

With those loads already probably pushing the apparent surge capacity, other than wanting to know why it happens on battery vs PV, it might not be worth it if it risks releasing the magic smoke from either the inverter or a workshop machine..... current state of the world makes sourcing parts bit of a gamble?

Don't know about ICC and the likes (watchpower?) but with the victron VRM a lot of the info that you don't see is logged (things like overload alarms, battery voltage etc.) and much of that info will be too quick - even for a fluke - but the info might be there somewhere..

At the risk of pitch forks and flame throwers, while @plonkster's post is probably aimed at installers/"system sellers" it is potentially alienating to someone new indicating their interest to learn and wanting to figure something out?

to check if the battery voltage is dropping you could stick a multi meter on the batteries and see what happens to the voltage when you start one of those big/problematic loads or.. I have no idea between ICC and the inverter who makes the actual decisions so something that could be checked is what happens if you temporarily change the "back to utility" voltage (program 12?) and low battery cut-off voltage (program 29?) to something lower and then see what happens when trying to start the problematic load from battery BUT first check with the more axpert knowledgeable crowd and don't leave that setting low or you will end up with a low battery somewhere when you don't want it. I have seen mention of motor soft starters but have no idea how effective they are and rather spending money towards more inverter/PV is maybe a more worthwhile spend?

Correct, with the batteries in parallel the 100A should not be a problem (as pointed out by @jykenmynie ) so the battery peak should actually not be an issue (but this also assumes the installation is 100% with all the various bits knowing who else is present and who is the boss). If the battery voltage drops under load (which with only the 1 motor starting is maybe also clutching at straws) I suspect the inverter might still go back to grid.. (?) @Kenneth go with what @Coulomb said..

@KallieDAlebout try to post a picture from ICC that indicates what the system says about the batteries. I know nothing about ICC but looking at this thread you should be able to get something like this: It could help to at least determine if your system knows how many batteries there are?

yup...realised that...and was on my way back here to point out that kenneth should happily ignore my post 😳

I suspect the battery is potentially where the trip up happens. The pylontechs have a 100A (100Ax48V = 4800W) peak limit and the surge of the motor starting (especially if there are already other loads connected or very little PV to help out) probably has the BMS disconnect the battery for protection. The geyser and dishwasher at 4500W are fairly resistive loads and do not have the same inrush current as a motor starting. Do not know if there is an option to have the switch over to grid happen quicker. Hopefully members better versed in axpert will chime in.... I shouldn't play in the PV pool but will point out you need to look at more than the total watts of the panels. You need to check the MPPT max PV volts etc. and then also factor in temperature coefficient for cold mornings. I suggest you post the MPPT spec for the inverter (think there is a sticker/lable on the side of the inverter that gives the info) and include the specs for the solar panels so if better qualified posters come along they can advise you quicker.

been thinking a bit... that PV drop out is likely when the battery state of charge is communicated as full and the PV gets throttled to only cover the loads. If the battery state is indicated as 100% by 14:00ish most days and on those same days after only 13kWh is used the battery state is reported as 13% it would seem like 1/2 the battery is unaccounted for. If this happens more often than not then I would wonder about these things: All battery cables actually connected? Battery size etc. correctly specified in all required monitoring/inverter parameters (simplified example; if part of the system was told there is only a 100Ah battery even when there is a 200Ah battery it will use 90Ah and report that there is only 10% left even though there is more than 50% left). Unfortunately axpert, ICC and emoncms is way outside my wheel hosue so can't help with trouble shooting the exact issue. But keep in mind it is not that difficult to use 24kWh - you do it on average everyday. So if the PV production is lower, and the battery gets used almost exclusively the whole day and night then by the next morning 13% left from 24kWh battery sounds about right.

By my rough calculation from the table posted you consumed about 13kWh during the non PV producing hours. You have about 23kWh battery available if allowing for some communication issue where the batterries default to 80% DOD. Even allowing for losses the battery should make it through the night. The two graphs (and one day table) suggest that somewhere between 13:00-14:25 the PV production all but disappears - unless there was cloud cover all of a sudden this looks a bit strange?. But at least on 28/06 from about 14:45 your PV was barely covering the load so I would think the battery was powering the house from about 15:00 already. Looking at the loads in relation to PV production in the morning also suggest that during this time of the year "night time" is closer to 19 hours than 14. If you have a couple of days in a row like that the batteries may not recharge sufficiently if they are not allowed (or unable) to charge from the grid. I suspect your batteries are possibly not getting fully charged by PV during the day for some reason, or the batteries get called one during the day (maybe peak loads etc) more than you think and then possibly do not get recharged again. The members more well versed in the Axpert/Voltronic setup should be able to point you to some specific settings to check (solar before batteries, back to grid etc.)

Realised I answered a different question 😳... the 6A charger you have should charge the deep cycle battery you have. You must just check if the rate of charge will be sufficient for your needs - especially when you start adding TV's etc for two hours at a time. Which is why it is always a good idea to walk away... sleep on it and recheck wants/needs (the bluetooth cable will not be used that much) depending what you want/need the "axpert"/voltronic type inverters are worth a good look. I would personally just try to make sure it is an actual voltronic unit and not a full on clone. And since wiring it to the DB came up the whole NRS certified thing can become relevant

Intitial charge current tends to be high depending how discharged/healthy the battery is and will then reduce slowly...and sit at the last very low current bit for a long time. The charge could have started at 6A and then reduced... slight outside possibility .. my builderswarehosue motoquip charger also has a "lower charge" option that you select with a rocker switch (think is about 1/2 of the usual charge current) The CTEK and Victrons should charge roughly any of the lead type battery versions you are likely to encounter. I am going to add another coin in the victron slot... 5 year warranty vs 2 year...

you better hope our glorious leader does not hear about this blasphemy! In all seriousness from my trolling the web a comparative CTEK (MXS 10) is about R1000 more expensive than a Victron (smart 12/15). On paper I think the victrons give much more value at a substantially lower price (higher charge current, blutooth, Li-on mode + everything the CTEK will do?). You may not need all the extras but you get it included in any case. Coffee no matter the battery/weather/eskom state and change from R800... 😁 back on topic Note to self...before clicking "pay now" for the inverter...double check the "quantity" column...🙂 Looks like you should rather buy an all-in-one inverter solution....anyone who owns a dremmel and orders parts from china should not go near any system that allows modification or addition.... you have been warned...... I'm late! I'm late! For a very important date

not to worry, my dad doesn't know what you did 🤣 Not that you asked, but I "clocked" my 1.1kW (1.5 HP) pool pump at about 29.9A (233VAC) on "inrush" (first 100ms)... which is possibly a bit quick to bug a multi but when switching to MAX/Min I have seen 25.2A so that peak can last a while (too lazy to switch the pump on/off for an exhaustive data set but I suspect the first second or so should average about 15A).... I would hazard that starting the pump not only says something about the multi but probably also the battery/PV? I played with the idea of using a small Solis grid tied to bring the pool pump bill down (let eskom kick start the pump and then have the solis drive it down the hill) and then realised I can probably achieve the same result with my small multi, ESS and a cron job or two (still studying my way through that part).

Ordered something small (in stock) from Geewiz 12:20 19 May, received it 12:30ish 20 May. No idea if it came from the next town over but I am a 1000km+ south of the apies river. Had an order from communica that was suppose to go out the day before hard lock down but their courier apparently said "nope", I did receive it at least when there was more clarity on courier operations post the 3 week lock down. I suspect logistics (and costs) have many of the retailers/suppliers doing consignment shipping and if an employee in one of the bigger hubs sneezes then it is: close the doors, lock-up, bring the disinfectant teams... now where were we?...okay put the new boxes on top of these ones. Just after hard lock down ended I was about to order a contactor from RS components..had the page saved as a bookmark... open page...check price..happy...double check specs...happy...add to basket....not happy....price went from R750 odd to R1250 odd.... refreshed page.... price now confirmed R1250.... closed page.

a bank's server room where 1 byte ended up going to that place where missing socks go, which moved the comma on all the day's trades 1 digit to the left because the hard drive slowed down when someone unplugged medupi to use the extension cord somewhere else, is probably more where pure sine will play it's roll for sensitive computers. But don't quote me on this since I am still a few credits short for my engineering degree from the university of google. ( @plonkster & @Richard Mackay have actual vast knowledge and experience). But it seems like pure sine is not a specific requirement for what you say you intend. The dell monitor could still have a switch mode power supply even though it does not have an external power brick. In a world where everything needs to be flat to sit on a wall and look swanky the external power supply makes more sense. (probably also cheaper to produce than having it integrated into the device). The 8 year old PC also at least helps to increase chances that it will not have a 500W PSU (trust your wife is not an E-sport pro) and may be happy to run from a smallish inverter. From a purely inverter focussed perspective I am biased towards the victron (I like their stuff) vs the mecer but when I squint and close my left eye the topic is also in the "Load shedding solutions" category to which I will say: If 100% sure you will be happy with powering the TV and/or a few (LED) lights and/or a laptop (or budget absolutely dictates you must settle for this) buy just the inverter BUT definitely look at the charger aspect . You already have loads connected to the battery and if you add another 200W+ for 2 hours (?) AND you need the the battery charged for the next load shedding session the optimate at 1A charging rate will be somewhat lacking (especially where we have load shedding every day or even multiple times per day). You can still go the victron inverter route and add one of their blue smart IP22 or IP65 chargers - this will give you way more options but somewhat of a price premium and will start you down a hole where soon you discover some weird smiling cat and an angry lady wanting to chop off heads because now you are already in the multiplus inverter/charger type functionality...and a 3kVA 48V multiplus ii is way better value for money than a 12V 1200kVA multiplus... but the batteries are expensive... but you can power 3 too tall train locomotives with one....etc etc etc . In closing - before we sing hymn 116 - load shedding will be with us for quite some time so think carefully before spending what now looks like a sensibly small enough amount. Definitely agree that times are uncertain so being frugal is clever but then make your peace with the limitations this will impose and if things take an up turn don't kick the dog when you look at the various little loose bits that ended up costing more than a bigger more capable system would have.... but be careful of retail therapy... So, get some 12V LED lights that you run directly from the battery (you may need @Richard Mackay's help in the future) and then at least post and proudly proclaim for @plonkster's benefit that you wanted a "blue install" so you got one of these 😉

I have no experience of the Sky King but won't pay R2600 odd for it (at the very least it seems you could get it for about R1000 cheaper-- takealot you have the free delivery which will off-set some of the gain). Compared to the Sky King the phoenix inverter would get my vote without a sweat. I would even save a R100 or so on @plonkster's recommendation here and put it towards either the Ve.direct cable to make more individualised adjustments like low shutdown voltage etc or the bluetooth cable so you can make the mentioned adjustments and see what the inverter is doing and battery state etc. from your phone. The phoenix as is should meet your base requirements at about R3000 (should power the load you want, and comes with a preset low voltage cut-off, and has a fairly low standby power draw of about 6W). If you go the high tech route (adding bluetooth) you will likely end up spending about R3765. One issue to note on the phoenix inverters is that they tend to not have the standard old school 3 pin plug output so you may need to adapt a cable (they often have either schuko or "kettle cord" type plugs). Not a train smash in my book. I would add another contender, which the adults must please correct me on, but I do not think you NEED pure sine wave for your use. Then I would at least consider something like the Mecer (prices range R1800-R2500) which although Modified Sine Wave is a 720W inverter with charger (10A or 20A selectable charge current and no need for separate 1A? charger) and you can fairly easily add solar charge ability in the future (could be handy if needing to charge the battery during the day but there is loadshedding for much of the day time)..(in fairness you can fairly easily add solar to any battery setup) NOTE: Other than geewiz I have not purchased from any of the particular online stores in the links so have no idea about their service levels. Geewiz prices seem to have gone up a tad with the website upgrade but I have been extremely happy with their service in the past. My other hobby horse, if possible and not yet done, buy, beg, borrow or steal a watt meter and confirm your loads. If you are running a biggish desktop PC and 32" screen your load could be higher than you think.

Bit above my pay grade but it even if the voltage remained within limits i think it would also start inverting (i.e. running from the batteries) if the AC frequency is not within a certain range. Under and over voltage is probably more likely.

looks like possibly there are two voltage ranges (at least for Axpert inverters which the Mecer should be a version of) "Appliance setting": 90-280VAC "UPS setting": 170-280VAC

My father's voice in my head saying "ag nee man...jy probeer mos nou om die ding te breek" would have me not repeat that ... then again a week of rainy cold weather with washing piling up makes one do strange things..

The following does not change anything about the multi going to bed before the solis shows up for the party. So readers that end up here curious about the victron+solis combo should skip the rest of this post... tldnr: the multi will not maintain 200% for a minute. When I was originally looking for the info I could not find anything on the peak/overload duration for the victrons (I was comparison shopping with axpert in the other corner) and only managed to track down the webinar... turns out this is one of those times when listening to what is said can possibly get you in trouble. While Johannes talks about point 2 on the slide he refers to the Peak power value where I think he meant to refer to Continuous output value. More recent posts on victron community ( 1 2 ) give this: Over enthusiastic users, like me, want to know what the hardware can withstand while the Victron answer is actually, understandably, more about what does the inverter do since it is not just a simple passive component. (Johannes's webinar is not exactly meant as a statement about hardware spec) I feel like a donkey trying to make sense of the Durban July but have now decided all of this means: The firmware will generally do the following (in what follows "output voltage" refers to the inverter AC output voltage of 230V for example): Any load greater than 200% of nominal power will lead to immediate shut down. For any load up to 200% nominal power if the multi can't reach/maintain output voltage the firmware will shut down the multi if output voltage is not reached in 30 cycles/0.5 seconds (AC cycle not physical start/restart/reset of inverter). If a load between 150%-200% of nominal is started and the multi can maintain voltage for the 0.5 or so seconds the multi will not shutdown...yet. If the load remains at that level for longer than 0.5 seconds the multi will shut down... If the load reduces to (or starts at) about 150% of nominal power and output voltage is reached the firmware will shut down the multi after 5 seconds even if the voltage can be maintained, unless the load reduces. For a load (reduced to or starting at) between 130%-150% of nominal power even while maintaining voltage ouput the firmware will consider it an overload condition and shutdown the inverter after 2 minutes even if able to maintain output voltage, unless the load reduces. A load between 100%-130% of nominal could be maintained for up to 30 minutes but the load/time is very much influenced by temperature and the firmware will likely shutdown the inverter after some minutes to an hour, unless the load reduces but it will probably not be classified as an overload shutdown it will be because of over temperature). This is largely academic and unless I made any glaring/dangerous errors require no response. PS. (If Johannes ever happens on this post and takes exception to my presuming to point out a possible error... please don't hack my VRM account and turn my multi into a pumpkin...) 😉

Don't think you have to change settings yet. The system was probably doing exactly what it was suppose to. Only if you suspect that your current settings are incorrect (the battery is always only 50% charged by 5pm and you want them at at least 90% for instance). You should be able to check what settings you have if you just want to confirm/compare but other members who know more about the Axpert type inverters will be better able to help you with exacctly how and what (there are lots of SBL and UCb and program 16 settings etc. that I will just mess up). have a look through these threads to give you an idea while waiting for others with more details

What is expected PV production for joburg in June? Don't know but peak and average numbers mentioned by members suggest more than 600W from 4kW PV. Why only 600W produced from ~4900W PV during (assumed) good PV production conditions? not that this is a poll but my vote goes for: Solar being called on only to charge the batteries (i.e. @Louisvdw & @jykenmynie combined) and the batteries were already fairly full so most likely controlled by the battery BMS the charge current was on the lower side (600W/48V~ 12A). If the batteries were more discharged the charging current probably would have been higher and the production allowed/call on from the panels would have been higher. (if the battery BMS was asking for 50A charge current the PV would have been producing 48V x 50A ~ 2400W). If the battery BMS was actually asking for a higher charge current and the PV did not respond as expected it is also possible that: a setting somewhere on the inverter has the charge current limit (from PV and/or total) set to ~10A ? If all settings were as expected/needed and the panels usually produce more than 600W under the conditions of at 13:00ish in June in bypass due to overload with PV charging batteries and batteries at same level of discharge then the 12 young hadedas sitting on the panels (or 1 or 2 bigger hadedas) could also affect the production from the PV at that exact time due to shading on some/all of the panels. EDIT: now see that "no shading" was mentioned so to save face I say the hadedas could also be training to become vultures and were flying circles so the shading was not as obvious 🙂 )

Previously tried to decipher the whole overload thing and came across this (link is to time stamp about Peak duration specifically but I advise watching the video from the start). If I understand it correctly Spec Sheet "Peak Power" (6kW for the 3KVA?) for 2 minutes IF the multi can maintain set output voltage. I would think that it is probably a good way to shorten the multi's life if relying on peak output on a regular basis?