ARaymond PowAR Snap clips

[Langeraat]

I am contemplating using the ARaymond PowAR Snap fastening clips for the installation of my panels. In theory, there are quite a number of pro's to using them. Especially appealing to me is their claimed ability to provide continuity between panel and frame and thereby making the grounding installation much quicker and easier. Is there perhaps someone that have practical experience with these clips that are willing to share their experience? Do they live up to these claims and specifically also when used as part of the grounding installation? Thanks.

[___]

I think someone ( @SilverNodashi perhaps?) posted about such clips before, in areas with very high wind they sometimes strip out? Might be different clips...

[SilverNodashi]

1 hour ago, Langeraat said:

I am contemplating using the ARaymond PowAR Snap fastening clips for the installation of my panels. In theory, there are quite a number of pro's to using them. Especially appealing to me is their claimed ability to provide continuity between panel and frame and thereby making the grounding installation much quicker and easier. Is there perhaps someone that have practical experience with these clips that are willing to share their experience? Do they live up to these claims and specifically also when used as part of the grounding installation? Thanks.

I have installed those a couple times. They're a pain in the neck to remove once installed, so you need to measure everything three times to be fore it will all fit

The nice thing about those, is that it sits underneath the panel so it looks neat. And while it's supposed to be theft proof, a client lost some panels last year which was installed using that system.

Removing them needs a special tool, which you can either buy, or make if you have some skills and metal working tools. 

[Langeraat]

3 hours ago, SilverNodashi said:

I have installed those a couple times. They're a pain in the neck to remove once installed, so you need to measure everything three times to be fore it will all fit

The nice thing about those, is that it sits underneath the panel so it looks neat. And while it's supposed to be theft proof, a client lost some panels last year which was installed using that system.

Removing them needs a special tool, which you can either buy, or make if you have some skills and metal working tools. 

Thanks for the feedback. I can imagine it can become quite fiddly if you are trying to remove the panels, especially towards the middle of a string. How did they perform as part of the grounding arrangement in your experience?

[SilverNodashi]

1 hour ago, Langeraat said:

Thanks for the feedback. I can imagine it can become quite fiddly if you are trying to remove the panels, especially towards the middle of a string. How did they perform as part of the grounding arrangement in your experience?

I can't say that it is any better than any other certified solar mounting structure grounding. 

[Langeraat]

Thanks SilverNodashi.

I guess my main concern was with the effective bonding and subsequent grounding of the panels/frame through the use of these clips. As an alternative, I have come across these Ilsco grounding lay-in lugs which seems quite nifty for achieving the bonding but I can't seem to source any locally. Are there any other lugs specifically suited for the job, that will support the longevity of the installation and also not cause galvanic corrosion? 

 

[Chris Hobson]

If you worried about grounding  what about these

https://solar.rubiconsa.com/mounting-systems/solar-mounting-structures/araymond-grounding-glips-220492000.html

 

[Noobie]

Am I missing something here?

When installing my PV panels I used aluminium mounts to fasten the panels down to the aluminium sub structure.

 I then ran a 4mm copper earth wire between all the panels and fastened these copper cables to each panel by crimping a ferrule onto the copper cable and bolting it onto the PV panels aluminium frame with a nut and bolt.

The PV frame already had a 6mm hole so I didn't need to drill into it to accommodate the nut and bolt.

This 4mm copper earth cable then runs straight back to the council earth connection point in the main DB.

Because the PV panels are earthed, the aluminium sub frame they are clamped to is also earthed and the steel brackets which hold the aluminium sub frame onto the tiled roof will also be earthed.

Is there any other reason why you would need to use a fancy clip like the PowAR one?

[___]

1 hour ago, Noobie said:

Is there any other reason why you would need to use a fancy clip like the PowAR one?

On a new installation, you'd presumably save all that time spent on crimping and laying cable. The clip would ensure good contact with the frame and you'd only earth the frame?

[SilverNodashi]

2 hours ago, plonkster said:

On a new installation, you'd presumably save all that time spent on crimping and laying cable. The clip would ensure good contact with the frame and you'd only earth the frame?

Yup, makes installation a bit quicker. and you have a definite path for lightning, with low resistance. 

[Langeraat]

 

6 hours ago, Chris Hobson said:

If you worried about grounding  what about these

https://solar.rubiconsa.com/mounting-systems/solar-mounting-structures/araymond-grounding-glips-220492000.html

 

Thanks Chris. I had a look at those. They seem to be a good alternative but you need a setting tool to set it that is quite expensive, at least for a once off installation as in my case. Cheapskate me... 

2 hours ago, plonkster said:

On a new installation, you'd presumably save all that time spent on crimping and laying cable. The clip would ensure good contact with the frame and you'd only earth the frame?

Correct, that is also how I understand it. Apparently the clip bites through the anodizing into the aluminium frame of the panel bonding it effectively with the underlying Unistrut type rail into which the device clips. Then you only need to bond the rails as you said Plonkster.  If you are bonding each panel separately you would have to ensure that whatever attachment mechanism you use for the cable makes proper contact with the panel frame through the anodizing to provide effective contact. As an alternative to the bonding feature of the ARaymond clips, I was also considering other possible ways to achieve the bonding with as little effort as possible.

Noobie, as long as you have an effective bond through the anodizing of all the aluminium you should be fine, no need for them. The PowAR clips were appealing to me because apart from being a quick and easy mounting device it also would have taken care of the bonding requirement as a bonus. 

 

 

[SilverNodashi]

3 minutes ago, Langeraat said:

 

Thanks Chris. I had a look at those. They seem to be a good alternative but you need a setting tool to set it that is quite expensive, at least for a once off installation as in my case. Cheapskate me... 

Correct, that is also how I understand it. Apparently the clip bites through the anodizing into the aluminium frame of the panel bonding it effectively with the underlying Unistrut type rail into which the device clips. Then you only need to bond the rails as you said Plonkster.  If you are bonding each panel separately you would have to ensure that whatever attachment mechanism you use for the cable makes proper contact with the panel frame through the anodizing to provide effective contact. As an alternative to the bonding feature of the ARaymond clips, I was also considering other possible ways to achieve the bonding with as little effort as possible.

Noobie, as long as you have an effective bond through the anodizing of all the aluminium you should be fine, no need for them. The PowAR clips were appealing to me because apart from being a quick and easy mounting device it also would have taken care of the bonding requirement as a bonus. 

 

 

I now use the renesola clips. They work the same but don't require a special tool to fit onto the panels.

[Noobie]

Ok, glad I wasn't missing something vital, I guess I am just a cheapskate 

 

[Chris Hobson]

10 hours ago, Langeraat said:

 

Thanks Chris. I had a look at those. They seem to be a good alternative but you need a setting tool to set it that is quite expensive, at least for a once off installation as in my case. Cheapskate me... 

 

I used a hammer 

[Langeraat]

14 hours ago, SilverNodashi said:

I now use the renesola clips. They work the same but don't require a special tool to fit onto the panels.

Sounds interesting. Do you perhaps have a link for them, please?

3 hours ago, Chris Hobson said:

I used a hammer 

Well, as they say, if your biggest "spanner" can not do the job it must be an electrical problem... and we know you do not have any electrical problems. 

[Chris Hobson]

8 hours ago, Langeraat said:

Well, as they say, if your biggest "spanner" can not do the job it must be an electrical problem... and we know you do not have any electrical problems. 

I cannot imagine that some special tool makes it any easier. Said tool would have been designed by an engineer who had time on his hands. It is literally like knocking in a nail.

[Langeraat]

2 hours ago, Chris Hobson said:

I cannot imagine that some special tool makes it any easier. Said tool would have been designed by an engineer who had time on his hands. It is literally like knocking in a nail.

If it is this easy, then it is a viable option for me. I will strongly consider. Thanks Chris.

[SilverNodashi]

11 hours ago, Langeraat said:

If it is this easy, then it is a viable option for me. I will strongly consider. Thanks Chris.

Where do you stay? These are the Renesola clips, they clip onto the panel and you run a copper wire through the small clip. 

[Langeraat]

36 minutes ago, SilverNodashi said:

Where do you stay? These are the Renesola clips, they clip onto the panel and you run a copper wire through the small clip. 

Thanks for the info SilverNodashi. Those clips looks quite nifty and easy to use too. Do you perhaps know who will be able to supply them if I need some?  

I am based in Pretoria. I have updated my profile to reflect such. Apologies, I have seemed to miss it.

[recre8]

Sorry for reviving this thread again, but do you guys have any feedback on these ARaymond PowerSnap S antitheft clips especially in windy areas? I'm mounting 450W panels and considering securing them using 6 of these powersnap clips (3 per long side). But my question is how do they stand up to the wind? Anybody have some long term experience using these?

[Solarphile]

On 2020/11/03 at 7:45 PM, recre8 said:

do you guys have any feedback on these ARaymond PowerSnap S antitheft clips especially in windy areas?

I have been using these clips for my 330w 72cell solar panels for the past year. I use 4 clips per panel and have never had a problem with the strong winds I experience on the farm. I can’t measure how fast the wind is here on the top of the hill where the house is, but it is very, very windy some days. There is a reason the farm is called Windhoek Farm. It is so windy that I would think that the panels would blow away, but they never have. At times I can hear the roof tiles rattling, but the panels stay. Maybe they will still blow off one day, but it hasn’t happened for a year.