Hello

So after the recent marathon of loadshedding I finally bit the bullet and upgrade my existing Grid-Tied system to a Hybrid System comprising of an 8kw Deye Inverter and 2 X 5.12 KW Dyness batteries. After much effort which required pulling additional wires through the roof and totally rewiring by prehistoric DB board I am finally up and running

I have read through the manuals and watched the limited videos I can find and also came across this awesome forum. I was hoping to ask some questions here and get your opionions

1. What is the purpose of the "Grid Charge" checkbox under Battery Settings if the same "Grid Charge" checkbox can be ticked per time slot under System Work Mode? If not ticked on Battery Settings will ticking it on the time slots under System work mode do nothing?
2. I am assuming the point of a Hybrid Inverter in some scenarios is to get completely off grid and perhaps use wind, generator as backup to solar and not Eskom. The reason I say this is as I am curious as to why the inverter charges the batteries during the day then runs off the batteries at night ( as opposed to running off Eskom at night ) . For me I would have thought that I would only want to use the batteries when there is no power at night due to load shedding

• So during the day Houses run off solar and charge batteries (solar first - Eskom when required)
• At night run off Eskom and only use batteries when there is loadshedding 
• I don't mind running off the battery but am I not reducing its life expectancy ( cycles ) by constantly running off the batteries and charging /discharging them?

 

Thanks

Mark

1. The grid charge under battery is the master grid charge setting. If this is ticket it allows the battery to be charged from the grid. If this is not ticked then nothing you do on the system mode screen regarding grid charge will work
2. The hybrid nature is as you have stated but also allows you to feed excess energy back to non-essentials and the grid by extension. You are also able to fully blend multiple sources of energy and do this according to some system logic. One of those settings is in system mode where you tell the inverter what to do between say 6pm and 6am - you can set some or all of that time slot to use batteries or grid while managing the battery levels
3. Lithium batteries generally don't like being at 100% all the time - its recommended to run then down regularly to exercise them if you were. 

For system mode - if you only want to use Eskom between 6pm and 6am then for that time slot set your minimum battery to a value you are comfortable with - the battery is used to this state of charge then the grid is used after that. When the power goes the battery will kick in automatically. 

1 hour ago, mzezman said:

1. The grid charge under battery is the master grid charge setting. If this is ticket it allows the battery to be charged from the grid. If this is not ticked then nothing you do on the system mode screen regarding grid charge will work
2. The hybrid nature is as you have stated but also allows you to feed excess energy back to non-essentials and the grid by extension. You are also able to fully blend multiple sources of energy and do this according to some system logic. One of those settings is in system mode where you tell the inverter what to do between say 6pm and 6am - you can set some or all of that time slot to use batteries or grid while managing the battery levels
3. Lithium batteries generally don't like being at 100% all the time - its recommended to run then down regularly to exercise them if you were. 

For system mode - if you only want to use Eskom between 6pm and 6am then for that time slot set your minimum battery to a value you are comfortable with - the battery is used to this state of charge then the grid is used after that. When the power goes the battery will kick in automatically. 

 

1. Seems a bit strange. But I guess you might want to use grid charge at times of the year and not other times of the year and its easier to disable this in one place than each and every time slot configured

3. Yes I have been told about this so I guess its a combination of don't discharge to much to often but also don't leave at 100% all of the time

Ok so like you say with the 6PM to 6AM slot set the level to something like 75%. If the battery starts at 100% for this slot it will discharge to 75% then use from Eskom for remainder of the slot (provided their is no loadshedding). Its a bit of a catch 22 - I want the batteries lifespan to last as long as possible but also dont want to use Eskom as much as possible. Guess its a process of finding a happy medium. If I were to configure it that during the day Solar runs the house and charges the battery and at night the house runs solely off batteries ( and reduces from 100% to 25% over the 12 hours) would my lifespan of my batteries still be good? 

 

 

1 hour ago, MarkZA79 said:

 

1. Seems a bit strange. But I guess you might want to use grid charge at times of the year and not other times of the year and its easier to disable this in one place than each and every time slot configured

3. Yes I have been told about this so I guess its a combination of don't discharge to much to often but also don't leave at 100% all of the time

Ok so like you say with the 6PM to 6AM slot set the level to something like 75%. If the battery starts at 100% for this slot it will discharge to 75% then use from Eskom for remainder of the slot (provided their is no loadshedding). Its a bit of a catch 22 - I want the batteries lifespan to last as long as possible but also dont want to use Eskom as much as possible. Guess its a process of finding a happy medium. If I were to configure it that during the day Solar runs the house and charges the battery and at night the house runs solely off batteries ( and reduces from 100% to 25% over the 12 hours) would my lifespan of my batteries still be good? 

 

 

You are running Dyness batteries which are 80% DOD (you can run then down to 20% and not impact / affect warranty etc) so a discharge from 100-25% is within the manufacturer bounds. What's key though is understanding your home usage patterns. If you set your minimum to 25%, if the batteries reach 25% at 2 / 3am - is that enough to take you to 7 / 8 am for PV to take over? You also have 6000 cycles at an 80% DOD so at 1 cycle per day that's approx 15years before you should run into any capacity issues

What i have done is a stepped approach - so i allow mine to run down to:

• 75% before 9:45pm
• 65% before 11:45
• 20% before 5am - so if LS hits at 5am i have enough in the tank until 7am when PV is greater than load. This is based on knowing that if i have 65% at midnight i can make it to the morning

On 2022/12/20 at 5:52 PM, mzezman said:

You are running Dyness batteries which are 80% DOD (you can run then down to 20% and not impact / affect warranty etc) so a discharge from 100-25% is within the manufacturer bounds. What's key though is understanding your home usage patterns. If you set your minimum to 25%, if the batteries reach 25% at 2 / 3am - is that enough to take you to 7 / 8 am for PV to take over? You also have 6000 cycles at an 80% DOD so at 1 cycle per day that's approx 15years before you should run into any capacity issues

What i have done is a stepped approach - so i allow mine to run down to:

• 75% before 9:45pm
• 65% before 11:45
• 20% before 5am - so if LS hits at 5am i have enough in the tank until 7am when PV is greater than load. This is based on knowing that if i have 65% at midnight i can make it to the morning

I wrote a whole long reply which seems to have gotten lost in Cyberspace

Anyway at the moment I am trying to figure out the best fit for me

• One option is to get the batteries to 100% by 6PM and let the house run off batteries the night ( 12 hours to 6AM) and see if they last. This will be dependent on how much the house uses during the period in the night. Obviously LS throws a spanner in the works too hence the stepped down approach you have mentioned
• What I have noticed to date is that I seem to be using Eskom in the evenings to keep the batteries at a certain level for the different time slots. I guess its a case of using Eskom at those different intervals or face depleting them before 6AM and having to use Eskom to charge them anyway before PV takes over in the morning
• I think I first need to figure out what my household needs for the evening and how much at each stage then adjust percentages accordingly. Obviously need more at 6PM when cooking etc as opposed to 1AM when house is idling
• The Solarman Web Portal is really useful and has some nice graphs and reports to show you when you are using / producing what. I think once I have enough days info from playing around with options I will find my sweet spot

 

On a side not what thickness cables is recommended. The manual for the 8KW inverter says 35mm, the Dyness batteries came with 25mm, I have heard some people use 50mm for future expansion. I have managed to make a couple of 35mm so far but still need to make a couple more so running with a few 25mm for now

On 2022/12/20 at 5:52 PM, mzezman said:

What i have done is a stepped approach - so i allow mine to run down to:

• 75% before 9:45pm
• 65% before 11:45
• 20% before 5am - so if LS hits at 5am i have enough in the tank until 7am when PV is greater than load. This is based on knowing that if i have 65% at midnight i can make it to the morning

Above you mention your stepped down approach for the evening which makes sense but how do you handle the day

For my scenario I want the batteries to be at 100% by 6PM. I am not concerned about stepping it up as I have Solar during the day to handle the household first and then charge the batteries 2nd. Obviously if its overcast it will use Eskom to supplement the requirement.

Do you just have 1 slot from say 6AM to 6PM with a requirement of 100% and let Solar get it there within the 12 hours?

I noticed this morning that current 6AM to 6PM slot was still pulling from Eskom even though I had Grid Charge unticked and the battery had 40% but it was not powering the house from the battery but rather solar and Eskom. Is it a case that it wont used from the battery while it is charging the battery? 

On 2022/12/20 at 2:02 PM, MarkZA79 said:

• So during the day Houses run off solar and charge batteries (solar first - Eskom when required)
• At night run off Eskom and only use batteries when there is loadshedding 

You've got 10 kwh of battery. That's what I have, and my rule of thumb is that if the battery is charged by about 15:30, then we're good until 8 the next morning (and will still have some in hand). 

OK... our situation may be different from yours. We are just two. We have, as people are talking about on this forum lately, "solarised" our life and so we don't use a lot at in the evenings. We have full gas cooking. We don't run appliances after hours. But this still leaves 2 fridges, a deep freeze, two TVs (one of which will be on), security system, making coffee, fibre & wifi, charging phones... 

My point is that with some adjustments to your routines, you can get through the night on 10kwh (probably on 5, but you'd not have so much left in the tank the next morning). OK... it's partly a life style decision, partly learning exactly what the system can do (which will take a little while). But if you can do that, it's an extra saving on the electricity bill.
 

31 minutes ago, MarkZA79 said:

Above you mention your stepped down approach for the evening which makes sense but how do you handle the day

For my scenario I want the batteries to be at 100% by 6PM. I am not concerned about stepping it up as I have Solar during the day to handle the household first and then charge the batteries 2nd. Obviously if its overcast it will use Eskom to supplement the requirement.

Do you just have 1 slot from say 6AM to 6PM with a requirement of 100% and let Solar get it there within the 12 hours?

I noticed this morning that current 6AM to 6PM slot was still pulling from Eskom even though I had Grid Charge unticked and the battery had 40% but it was not powering the house from the battery but rather solar and Eskom. Is it a case that it wont used from the battery while it is charging the battery? 

During the day I generally just let the system do what it does. Like @Bobster.I also check my SOC around 330 and top up if need be but even after running everything I'm usually at 100% by then. I think my day slot is a 5am to 330pm with an SOC of 30%

1 hour ago, mzezman said:

During the day I generally just let the system do what it does. Like @Bobster.I also check my SOC around 330 and top up if need be but even after running everything I'm usually at 100% by then. I think my day slot is a 5am to 330pm with an SOC of 30%

Hmmm

I think this may be where  I need a better understanding.Tthe SOC % that you refer to per timeslot. Does this mean what level the battery must not drop below for that entire period and it will use Eskom to supplement getting to that % if Solar is not enough. So in your example if set to 30% it does not mean the battery will remain at 30% for that entire period and that if there is enough solar it can potentially go up to 100% capacity but will never drop below 30%? 

On the other hand if you set the timeslot say for 6AM to 6PM with a SOC of 100% its constantly going to keep the battery at 100% for that 12 hours and use both Solar and Eskom to achieve this?

1 hour ago, Bobster. said:

You've got 10 kwh of battery. That's what I have, and my rule of thumb is that if the battery is charged by about 15:30, then we're good until 8 the next morning (and will still have some in hand). 

OK... our situation may be different from yours. We are just two. We have, as people are talking about on this forum lately, "solarised" our life and so we don't use a lot at in the evenings. We have full gas cooking. We don't run appliances after hours. But this still leaves 2 fridges, a deep freeze, two TVs (one of which will be on), security system, making coffee, fibre & wifi, charging phones... 

My point is that with some adjustments to your routines, you can get through the night on 10kwh (probably on 5, but you'd not have so much left in the tank the next morning). OK... it's partly a life style decision, partly learning exactly what the system can do (which will take a little while). But if you can do that, it's an extra saving on the electricity bill.
 

So I am generally at 100% by 4PM but we still tend to cook etc until about 6PM-7PM. We also have a Gas Stove but the oven is still Electric and then there is the microwave etc. I am still playing around with whether to to use Eskom for the period between 4PM and 6PM when we are cooking or to see even with this extra load for these 2 hours if the batteries will last until 7AM then next morning as after 7PM in evening the load demand of the house drops substantially

We have definitely adjusted our life style. The Geysers only warm during the day. The pool pump only runs during the day. The washing machine only runs during the day. Tend to use the gas kettle more now than the electric kettle

My ultimate goal is to use Solar during the day to manage the house and to charge batteries and then to run the house on batteries in the evening. Bring reliance on Eskom down to as little as possible

So in the example below ( This is not my setup, just one I found online )

• There are no "Grid Charge" checks so does this mean Eskom will not be used to charge the batteries and only Solar is used?
• Does the "Grid Charge" only apply to getting the battery to the specified SOC value for that timeslot. It wont use Eskom to get to say 100% if Solar is not present?

 

No grid charge = only solar is used to charge the battery, up to the SOC specified

Once the specified SOC is reached, they are not charged above unless solar production > load

Means, any case, you need to tick "Grid charge" out of sun hours or your batteries will not charge ...

Edited December 24, 20223 yr by zivva

Bearing in mind that on this settings page you still need to activate Time Of Use or else it won't work. Stating the obvious a bit.

9 hours ago, MarkZA79 said:

Hmmm

I think this may be where  I need a better understanding.Tthe SOC % that you refer to per timeslot. Does this mean what level the battery must not drop below for that entire period and it will use Eskom to supplement getting to that % if Solar is not enough. So in your example if set to 30% it does not mean the battery will remain at 30% for that entire period and that if there is enough solar it can potentially go up to 100% capacity but will never drop below 30%? 

On the other hand if you set the timeslot say for 6AM to 6PM with a SOC of 100% its constantly going to keep the battery at 100% for that 12 hours and use both Solar and Eskom to achieve this?

Apologies for the late reply

You are correct the % you set in the system mode screen / work mode is the minimum that the batteries will be allowed to get to as long as eskom is there. If there is more PV than load then the batteries are happy to run all the way up to 100% even if you set your SOC for that daylight slot to 30% as an example. If there is no eskom though then the batteries will run below the set SOC down as low as the battery cut-off setting. 

1 hour ago, mzezman said:

Apologies for the late reply

You are correct the % you set in the system mode screen / work mode is the minimum that the batteries will be allowed to get to as long as eskom is there. If there is more PV than load then the batteries are happy to run all the way up to 100% even if you set your SOC for that daylight slot to 30% as an example. If there is no eskom though then the batteries will run below the set SOC down as low as the battery cut-off setting. 

This is where it gets interesting

If I want to charge my batteries to 100% by 6PM and generally am confident that solar PV will achieve this between the 6AM to 6PM slot but I dont want to use ESKOM to do this then I should set my SOC low (e.g. 30%) knowing that for if some reason there is no PV then at least the batteries will be at 30%. This is assuming that Grid Charge is ticked

Alternatively I set the SOC to 100% for the 6AM to 6PM slot and leave Grid Charge unticked meaning its reliant totally on PV to charge the batteries to 100% in those 12 hours which is a reasonable expectation.

If Grid Charge is ticked though but there is enough PV power to carry the load and charge the batteries I assume then it wont use Eskom

So Grid Charge is really during the evening or actually early morning 3AM when batteries could be low and you used Eskom to keep them above the shut down %

14 hours ago, MarkZA79 said:

If Grid Charge is ticked though but there is enough PV power to carry the load and charge the batteries I assume then it wont use Eskom

Correct ...

And you have an option under the system work mode screen to prioritize solar for charging the battery or supply the load. Then prioritize battery charging if you want to make sure battery reach the SOC you set at the end of the day ...

Hi Guys,

Complements of the new year to you all.

I also have the Deye 8KW hybrid inverter with 4x 5.1KWH CFE batteries, 11KWp solar. (Eskom connected, but switched off)

My question is also settings related:

During the day the batteries are usually at 100% Soc by 10h30, and immediately start to discharge to run the load. PV production stops completely 0%.

The Batteries discharge to 90% SoC and only then will the PV kick in to charge up to 100% again. Cycle repeats until the sun goes down

Is there a setting to change the discharge level to limit the discharge to 90% for instance? Time of use settings have no effect.

 

I don't mind the charge/discharge cycles, but is concerned when the batteries are on a discharge cycle when the sun goes down and I start the evening at 90% rather that 100%

 

Thanks,
Deon

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, DeonB1003 said:

Hi Guys,

Complements of the new year to you all.

I also have the Deye 8KW hybrid inverter with 4x 5.1KWH CFE batteries, 11KWp solar. (Eskom connected, but switched off)

My question is also settings related:

During the day the batteries are usually at 100% Soc by 10h30, and immediately start to discharge to run the load. PV production stops completely 0%.

The Batteries discharge to 90% SoC and only then will the PV kick in to charge up to 100% again. Cycle repeats until the sun goes down

Is there a setting to change the discharge level to limit the discharge to 90% for instance? Time of use settings have no effect.

 

I don't mind the charge/discharge cycles, but is concerned when the batteries are on a discharge cycle when the sun goes down and I start the evening at 90% rather that 100%

 

Thanks,
Deon

 

 

 

 

Hi

From my limited experience to date I have noted the following

Time of Use does work in conjunction with Grid Charge if you set your percentage per slot to 100%. However in my scenario this is using Eskom to keep it at that percentage if PV is not available. I can not comment where there is no Eskom present but would have thought PV would do the same

Could it not be a case of setting the inverters priority to charge batteries first and then load if not already set this way?

2 hours ago, MarkZA79 said:

Hi

From my limited experience to date I have noted the following

Time of Use does work in conjunction with Grid Charge if you set your percentage per slot to 100%. However in my scenario this is using Eskom to keep it at that percentage if PV is not available. I can not comment where there is no Eskom present but would have thought PV would do the same

Could it not be a case of setting the inverters priority to charge batteries first and then load if not already set this way?

Hi Mark,

I will try the Grid charge setting and see what happens, with Eskom switched off.

I have also tried changing the priority to Battery first, but it made no difference. It is currently set to Load first

8 minutes ago, DeonB1003 said:

Hi Mark,

I will try the Grid charge setting and see what happens, with Eskom switched off.

I have also tried changing the priority to Battery first, but it made no difference. It is currently set to Load first

Let me know what you find out

Would be interesting to know what "grid" is considered to be. Initial thoughts is Eskom. I know with the Time of Use Slots that if you say set one slot to have a SOC requirement of 30% but there is PV it would continue to charge to 100%. The 30% is just the minimum the batteries must be at for that slot and when Grid Charge is ticked it will use Eskom to achieve this if necessary. Basically Grid Charge does not need to be ticked though for the batteries to charge to 100% for that Time Slot

My batteries are set to be at 100% by 3PM. They normally get there long before that but if for whatever reason PV is not enough it uses Eskom to get it there. I then use Grid charge from 5PM to 9PM to keep it at 100% ( No solar present but busy with cooking etc so batteries discharge ) and then rely on the batteries carrying the house load from 9PM until 7AM the next morning when PV kicks in again. I do have a 3AM to 7AM slot though with Grid Charge ticked and minimum SOC of 30%

I must be honest to date I have not seen my batteries go down to 90% and backup to 100% once they have reached the initial 100%. From the app I can see that there is constantly small amounts of power (100W) feeding in to the battery once at 100%. Again my only difference is I still have Eskom connected

I think there are more advanced settings on the Discharge side of things, will have a look for you to see if I can find them

There are probably more experienced people on these forums who will hopefully reply to you too

 

4 minutes ago, MarkZA79 said:

Let me know what you find out

Would be interesting to know what "grid" is considered to be. Initial thoughts is Eskom. I know with the Time of Use Slots that if you say set one slot to have a SOC requirement of 30% but there is PV it would continue to charge to 100%. The 30% is just the minimum the batteries must be at for that slot and when Grid Charge is ticked it will use Eskom to achieve this if necessary. Basically Grid Charge does not need to be ticked though for the batteries to charge to 100% for that Time Slot

My batteries are set to be at 100% by 3PM. They normally get there long before that but if for whatever reason PV is not enough it uses Eskom to get it there. I then use Grid charge from 5PM to 9PM to keep it at 100% ( No solar present but busy with cooking etc so batteries discharge ) and then rely on the batteries carrying the house load from 9PM until 7AM the next morning when PV kicks in again. I do have a 3AM to 7AM slot though with Grid Charge ticked and minimum SOC of 30%

I must be honest to date I have not seen my batteries go down to 90% and backup to 100% once they have reached the initial 100%. From the app I can see that there is constantly small amounts of power (100W) feeding in to the battery once at 100%. Again my only difference is I still have Eskom connected

I think there are more advanced settings on the Discharge side of things, will have a look for you to see if I can find them

There are probably more experienced people on these forums who will hopefully reply to you too

 

I will let you know if it makes a difference.

Before I switched Eskom off, it also kept the batteries at 100%, used Eskom and PV combined to supply the load.

22 hours ago, DeonB1003 said:

I will let you know if it makes a difference.

Before I switched Eskom off, it also kept the batteries at 100%, used Eskom and PV combined to supply the load.

No change with Grid charge selected

59 minutes ago, DeonB1003 said:

No change with Grid charge selected

HI

What are your settings here?

Your load is using the batteries, there is no eskom, so only PV can replace what is consumed by the load. If there is a configuration setting for when PV starts to replenish the batteries I cant find it

 

So I currently have loadshedding now ( so in essence no Eskom)

My Panels are still producing power which is powering my load and little bit for the batteries (which are at 100%)

There is is no reduction is the battery %

 

1 hour ago, MarkZA79 said:

HI

What are your settings here?

Your load is using the batteries, there is no eskom, so only PV can replace what is consumed by the load. If there is a configuration setting for when PV starts to replenish the batteries I cant find it

 

Hi, It's set to "Zero export to CT", No Selling, "Load first". It uses batteries in my case even when there is full sun