New installation suggestions and questions, so many questions

[PJJ]

Hello guys

I have been browsing the forum for some time now, and I must say I think I am in good hands

Ok lets start, I live in a small town that is notorious for power outages, and also from time to time water, everyone in my neighborhood has 2000L Jojo tanks and pressure pumps for exactly this reason (as do I), its a medium sized 3 bedroom house with only myself and my wife.

Up until now the power issue hasn't been so bad, its mostly only gone down when maintenance happens (although it feels like maintenance is at least once a week) and I have a UPS that keeps my networking equipment, alarm system and one outside light on in the event of a power failure, sadly in theory it can only last for about 8H on the batteries so in practice its more like 7H, my biggest concern is my alarm, networking and IP Camera system falling over should we have a extended power outage. 

My monthly usage is around 400Kwh which means I use about 13 Units a day, I already have a solar geyser, and I am planning a gas stove as my next purchase as well, that might help to bring me down to 11-12Kwh a day, I definitely want to go grid tied so that I can use the utility power just to plug the small gaps of power I might need, and I am considering building 2 flats on the property later on.

 

For a start: I just want a reliable power backup for when the utility power falls away, but I want to flexibility to just add solar panels later on and expand if needed

I have been browsing the available inverters and I quite like the Goodwe 5Kw EM : https://solaradvice.co.za/product/goodwe-em-5kw-hybrid-inverter-2-3kw-backup/

But what I don't understand, does it have 2.3Kwh worth of backup power/storage built in? If it does it already solves a large part of my problem, and regarding the solar if I have excess energy during the day and I export it to the grid, will my meter start spinning backwards? (I have municipal power) and is the Goodwe a true hybrid inverter in the sense that it can combine PV/battery and Utility to supply the required load unlike the Axpert's that will go into bypass? and also let say if the total load is 10Kw, will the Goodwe provide 5Kw and take the other 5 from the Utility or will the inverter go into bypass because it cannot supply the load and take the whole 10 from the grid?

Lets start with those questions first

Thanks a lot guys!

[___]

4 hours ago, PJJ said:

But what I don't understand, does it have 2.3Kwh worth of backup power/storage built in?

Don't confuse kw with kwh. One is a measure of power, the other is a measure of energy. Power has a time component (if you use the same energy to do the job, but you can do it in half the time, you have double the power), energy has no time component. By multipling the power (kw) with the time (h) you get back to a unit of energy. Technically we should be using joules, but kwh is more convenient :-)

Anyway.... as I said, don't confuse them. The inverter can handle power of 2.3kw continuous or 3.5 surge, but you still need to add a 48V bank of batteries.

4 hours ago, PJJ said:

is the Goodwe a true hybrid inverter in the sense that it can combine PV/battery and Utility to supply the required load unlike the Axpert's that will go into bypass?

It's a true hybrid. I don't know exactly how it works and how finely adjustable it is. That price looks good, I remember them being over 30k. It's about in the ballpark of a 3kva Multiplus with a 35A MPPT, and it's IP65, so by the looks of it it's a good deal.

I don't know how it goes about mixing power between battery and grid, but @Mike is the guy to ask, I believe he has or had a Goodwe on the wall.

[Chris Hobson]

On 11/8/2017 at 11:42 AM, PJJ said:

But what I don't understand, does it have 2.3Kwh worth of backup power/storage built in?

This Chinese nomenclature hence the confusion backup power is basically essential loads that will be powered by battery in the event of utility going down. The other is on grid and will be supplied  either by PV or grid (or a combination). There is no built in storage

On 11/8/2017 at 11:42 AM, PJJ said:

........ and regarding the solar if I have excess energy during the day and I export it to the grid, will my meter start spinning backwards? (I have municipal power) and is the Goodwe a true hybrid inverter in the sense that it can combine PV/battery and Utility to supply the required load unlike the Axpert's that will go into bypass?

The Goodwe comes with a  limiter. It looks simple and those that I have spoken to it seems to perform as expected (except for @Wetkit but it think his problem is more meter related and he has tried more than one system). I am halfway through my first Goodwe install (the client has gone on a fishing trip) and as soon as I have finished I will be able to tell you more.

It is a true hybrid and by all accounts performs well. It is IP65 fanless and has a very simple interface. For more detailed information you connect to the inverter via an Android device.

I see you looking at the EM series. May I suggest you look at the 5048 ES  which is a 4.6kW inverter and the entire 4.6kW can be used in backup mode. The 2.3kW split of the EM units makes no sense to me. You pay nearly the same for a ES unit and end up with only ½ the backup capability.

In this example bottom left is "backup power"  and this is powered 100% of the time either by PV/battery or grid.

Bottom right  is the gridtie feed. This can be supplied either by PV or grid.  If the grid falls away then those appliances cannot be powered.

 

Chris

 

 

 

[PJJ]

Thanks for all the replies so far, ok Goodwe 5048 ES it will be (if I go the Goodwe route)

Any other Goodwe owners here that can share some of their views on the inverter?

[Chris Hobson]

The other Goodwe owners are @Mike and @virge. Perhaps we can lure them out of retirement.

 

[Mark]

@Mike is around but spends alot of time shovelling all the bitcoin into crates in his garage...  He may need to build an extension

 

 

[PJJ]

@Mike come and help me, and I will tell you how I have allocated my crypto profile

[___]

1 hour ago, Mark said:

shovelling all the bitcoin into crates

You properly cracked me up!

[Identity Seeker]

17 hours ago, Chris Hobson said:

This Chinese nomenclature hence the confusion backup power is basically essential loads that will be powered by battery in the event of utility going down. The other is on grid and will be supplied  either by PV or grid (or a combination). There is no built in storage

The Goodwe comes with a  limiter. It looks simple and those that I have spoken to it seems to perform as expected (except for @Wetkit but it think his problem is more meter related and he has tried more than one system). I am halfway through my first Goodwe install (the client has gone on a fishing trip) and as soon as I have finished I will be able to tell you more.

It is a true hybrid and by all accounts performs well. It is IP65 fanless and has a very simple interface. For more detailed information you connect to the inverter via an Android device.

I see you looking at the EM series. May I suggest you look at the 5048 ES  which is a 4.6kW inverter and the entire 4.6kW can be used in backup mode. The 2.3kW split of the EM units makes no sense to me. You pay nearly the same for a ES unit and end up with only ½ the backup capability.

In this example bottom left is "backup power"  and this is powered 100% of the time either by PV/battery or grid.

Bottom right  is the gridtie feed. This can be supplied either by PV or grid.  If the grid falls away then those appliances cannot be powered.

 

Chris

 

 

 

I too don't quite understand the intent behind the new EM models either. The price is so close to the ES models and can't compare at all.

They are also available from the same place https://solaradvice.co.za/product/hybrid-inverter/

The only thing I don't like about these units is the fact you can't run them in parallel.

[___]

1 hour ago, Identity Seeker said:

The only thing I don't like about these units is the fact you can't run them in parallel.

Given that they are priced pretty close (within 10%) of a 5KVA Multi, if you really need the parallel capability you could look at those instead.

I think the appeal of this unit is that it's 10% cheaper than the nearest Multi and comes with a built-in MPPT.

[Mike]

the only comment i can make is....they work, they don't give any shite, and as the others have said full 4.6kw of backup, they switch over on outages seamlessly - you do not know youre on battery at all. i used to run 3 of them with a split DB to one battery bank..only dumped two of them to allow for a 11kw gti for mining and one goodwe to run the home with everything connected bar the rigs and asics that pull around 7200w/24/7

Its one of the most stable Ip65 units out of China with fair good backup direct from the factory if needed from Jack Song..

[Roarty]

Hi @plonkster & @Chris Hobson

I came across this posting and would like to ask you guys a few things, it might sound stupid!

I have a Goodwe 5048 ES with 2 x 3.3kW solar arrays and 2 x BYD 2.56kWh batteries, not installed yet, with a back-up output as well with the grid tie output. I know the back-up is for essentials, but do I need it if my power consumption reach just over 15kWh/day and that is only when the cleaning lady is working as well as the geyser running from grid for 3 hours so that everybody can shower and heated up again for the wife the next morning. My geyser is going on it's own system anyway with a controller to use the excess power from the  6.6kW solar panels.

My dilemma is that if I do use the back-up load I will need a 3-way ATS if I want to stay in line. Correct me please if I am wrong.

[___]

I am not sure what you are asking. It sounds as if you are concerned about a bypass switch so you can bypass the inverter on days when there will be larger loads. You certainly don't need a fancy ATS, just a good interlocking manual changeover switch like the Hager SF263. But I don't know this inverter... and I haven't seen or heard Chris in weeks...