1 hour ago, JohnSand said:

Hi All,

I too am having issues with a "Fivestar" inverter I've bought  -did it online & the price was right so I knew I was taking a chance.

Firstly & worstly is that the 'service' is non-existent.  After repeated calls to the vendor all I am told is that their workshop will attend to the

unit if I bring it to them for inspection.  They're in Johannesburg, I'm in the FS.

The fault is a very minor one which should easily be treatable over the phone, but, let's get on with it....

1.   Unit is 10kVA, 1ph.  It is not expected to regenerate as grid-tie.

2.   PV panels are 6off arranged 3S2P.  Inverter spec allows Voc <= 200v.  The panels provide Voc of <! 155V (measured and expected).

3.   Almost always at first light in the morning the unit sees the PV voltage and is obviously trying to home in on a MPPT current draw.

      it does this while the panels are diffusely lit.

4.   Once the sun gets going there is a region of shadow on the panels due to building structures, which diminishes to zero by 10AM (early July).

      During this shaded period the unit goes to an alarm state and refuses to draw any PV current, although the Voc is shown as 140-150V

      or so.

      Repeated efforts to reset the machine keep returning me to the Alarm, it is shown as   ALA  33.

      ALA   33   is not given in the 'user manual'     ...of course.

5.    Once all shading is gone the PV  MPPT can be reset by open circuiting the panels for +/- 20seconds then closing the isolator again.

       It's a guarantee the whole machine springs to life, draws 40 or 50Amp  at 140V+.

       It will continue flawlessly till sundown.

6.    Next morning I have to repeat the process to get anything from the PV.

 

Is there anyone out there in PowerForumLand who can advise me?

 

bestos,   John

Re-post

I'm going on the understanding that your inverter is the one in the link here: https://phase-energy.co.za/product/fivestar-48v-10kva-10kw-hybrid-solar-inverter-mppt-wifi-compatible/

Nominal Operating Voltage :240VDC

Max. Solar Voltage :(VOC) : 500VDC

MPPT Voltage Range : 120-450VDC

Can you find a startup Voltage spec anywhere in the manual?

Just a theory to test. I'm suspecting that your startup Voltage is something like 150Voc, with an operating range then of 120-450Vmp. Problem could be that during shading you drop out of the MPPT range, ie. below 120V, and in this scenario your 140-150Voc during shading might not be enough to get the inverter started up again. However, when your panels are  are un-shaded, and you re-connect with Voc rising above 150V, that's then enough to get the inverter started, and then it doesn't matter if the operating Voltage drops down to 140Vmp.

If this is indeed your inverter, and your MPPT spec, I'd suggest placing all panels in series to get well above 150Voc.

Again, just a theory, to be checked against your inverter's specs in the manual. I'm just making some heavy assumptions here.

 

Edited July 6, 20232 yr by GreenFields

Thanks Greenfields!

Actually my inverter is not the model you assumed but very close.  It's given as

VX-10048M-FS   48V  10000VA  MPPT.   'Hybrid Solar Inverter'   see pic below.

The max Voc is definitely shown as

48v-MPPT200VDC  in the user manual.  So I'm well within their range, I daren't restring

to above 200V.

 

To add to the story, it is somewhat odd that I do have the MPPT drawing current while there is diffuse light, voltage maybe 140V, current 2, 4, 6 Amp.

The shading later also only affects one of the two parallel strings of PV panels, the other is in full sunlight well before 10AM but

the system is still un-re-settable till there is full on sun.

Just seen in the manual as well..

MPPT/PWM input voltage range        48V: MPPT60-200VDC  (or PWM60-105VDC)

18 hours ago, GreenFields said:

It's a guarantee the whole machine springs to life, draws 40 or 50Amp  at 140V+.

That's presumably 40-50 A at the battery, not panel current. So around 2000-2500 W, or 333-416 W per panel. Unless those are monster panels, that's doing quite well.

Certainly 200 V max is unusual for a 10 kVA inverter. I saw a complaint about false advertising of the MPPT voltage range, wanting 500 V, getting 200 V. I wonder if they're having problems with the solar charger, and a stop gap measure are re-rating to 200 V max. If that's the case, then the minimum MPPT voltage would be much higher than the 60 V indicated, and might explain your problems. A pretty poor show if this is the case.

Coulomb,

I think the current of ~50A has to be PV panel current.  It is shown on the LCD along with Vpv of ~150V under the designation P3.

It looks like this.       Vpv  150V       P3         I  49A        or something like that so it refers to the PV output (I'm confident).

Again, the usermanual is so poor it doesn't even describe the display features, had to figure them out like the rest by trial and error.

I'm in the RSA, Free State and these are winter conditions at altitude ~1400m with very clear skies, also the panel pitch is 45deg and azimuth 

NNW.  An excellent setting for the PV. These panels are Korean Bi-facial 72cell, 675W peak, Voc 55.67V, wired  3S2P.

An instinct of mine -backed up by a couple of other cogniscenti- is to rewire to 2S3P, this will lower Vpv to max 110V.

I'd happily do that straight away but it's a dog of a job & will require me to strip the panels off (45deg pitch!) then rewire and refit, so I'm looking

for other easier experiments first.

 

As for minimum MPPT voltage being possibly misrepresented, I do note that the MPPT works well in diminishing sunlight right down to 60+V

drawing a few amps, 2-6A.

 

Another observation is that startup is inhibited in full sunlight until BOTH strings are fully lit, if even a couple of cells at horizontal top edge

of one panel are shaded the MPPT will not start up. Both strings have to be completely clear then startup is guaranteed.

That confuses me because if one PV string is generating 150V but is unobstructed then how can the other string in parallel drag it down?

There are bypass diodes in all panels (I suppose).

1 hour ago, JohnSand said:

I think the current of ~50A has to be PV panel current.  It is shown on the LCD along with Vpv of ~150V under the designation P3.

It looks like this.       Vpv  150V       P3         I  49A        or something like that so it refers to the PV output (I'm confident).

I'll agree that it suggests that it's panel current, as it is mentioned right beside panel voltage, but 150 V x 49 A = 7350 W. From 6 nominally 675 W panels (those must be monsters), that's only nominally 4050 W. No way you are getting 181% of nominal panel power. Whereas 49 A at (say) 52 V (battery voltage)≅ 2550 W, or 63% of nominal, much more reasonable for winter (I'm assuming you're in the southern hemisphere). 

 

1 hour ago, JohnSand said:

Another observation is that startup is inhibited in full sunlight until BOTH strings are fully lit, if even a couple of cells at horizontal top edge

of one panel are shaded the MPPT will not start up. Both strings have to be completely clear then startup is guaranteed.

That confuses me because if one PV string is generating 150V but is unobstructed then how can the other string in parallel drag it down?

There are bypass diodes in all panels (I suppose).

I wonder if you need diodes in series with each string. The bypass diodes are designed to solve a different problem. These series diodes would need to be quite powerful , rated at at least 15 A, and will dissipate over 10 W each so they will need a decent heat sink. They would need to be rated at 200 V, so unfortunately Schottky diodes (which have a much lower voltage drop, and would therefore dissipate much less heat), likely can't be used. You could try a 20 or 35 A 200-1000 V diode bridge (parallel the AC connections, and use plus towards the inverter positive, "AC" to the string positive). Bolt the bridge to a substantial (say 100 x 100 mm or so) heatsink. To start with, you could try just one diode, only on the string that gets the shading. If it works, neaten it up and add another bridge and heatsink to the other string. The two bridges could share the same heatsink. Do this safely, of course; the wires connected to the inverter's PV input carry lethal potential with respect to earth even when the inverter isn't using solar power, and even at night.

These would prevent the current from the full-sun string from flowing mostly into the other string (turning that string into infra-red emitting diodes instead of infra-red absorbing ones), making little current available to the inverter.

What happens if you temporarily disconnect one string? Hopefully that's as simple as turning off a breaker. If I'm right, you might get say 1300 W from one string, and say 1000 W from the slightly shaded string. But together, maybe 1200 W flows from one string to the other, leaving only 100 W for the inverter, and maybe that's not enough for the inverter to start. It could also be that when the inverter starts to draw current, the resultant voltage drop changes the amount of current flowing string to string, and this may cause the voltage and current into the inverter to change in unexpected ways, causing the inverter's solar charger algorithm to think that the solar power is weak when in fact it isn't.

Edit: But adding these string diodes would prevent power flowing from one string to the other, hopefully recovering most of the available power (at the cost of some 10 W per diode). It might be possible to run permanently with only one diode.

Edited July 8, 20232 yr by Coulomb

Thanks Coulomb,

These are great suggestions.  I have my own electronics workshop so there are no real physical challenges here but I hate taking

action without knowing WHY it might fix things.

I'll work thru these & post results later.

 

I'm back again with some feedback from alterations I've made.

1.   Added a couple of heavy diodes in parallel (each with a few turns of series copper to equalise the current).

2.   These are connected as a series blocking diode to the +ve output of the shadier PV string.

3.   Result has been that so far that the inverter MPPT is starting up automatically in the morning.  Almost always.   

       I do see the odd glitch when from time to time the machine reverts to alarm  ALA  33  and refuses to 

      draw  PV current.  It is hard to see any triggering event correlating with this.

4.    I'm sure I'm on the right track.  Presently the setup is a SAGM  (String And Chewing Gum) lashup but                                            proves something positive is happening.  

5.    Next step will be to duplicate the diodes to the second PV string and see if this cures the issue completely.

6.    Upon that glorious event I can go ahead and fix it up permanently NSAGM  (Non String And Chewing Gum).

 

-John

On 2023/04/14 at 6:11 PM, JohanPotgieter said:

Is there a cellphone app for the fivestar 3.5 to monitor?

@JohanPotgieter: You should be able to use the WatchPower application to monitor your inverter.

Actually, that was my plan as well when I bought  https://www.takealot.com/2kva-pwm-2000w-pure-sinewave-12v-solar-hybrid-inverter-vl-2012p-/PLID93057718.

However, despite shown on the takealot pic, the 2KVA model doesn't have monitor ports on the side.

Did anyone ever open the inverter and check the PCB for serial pins that are not used for the smaller models? Only the 3.5/5.5KVA models have the ports available. I am just hoping that Fivestar uses the same PCB layout but just not offering the ports on the enclosure.

Community, any idea?

 

On 2023/04/14 at 6:11 PM, JohanPotgieter said:

Is there a cellphone app for the fivestar 3.5 to monitor?

@JohanPotgieter: You should be able to use the WatchPower application to monitor your inverter.

Actually, that was my plan as well when I bought  https://www.takealot.com/2kva-pwm-2000w-pure-sinewave-12v-solar-hybrid-inverter-vl-2012p-/PLID93057718.

However, despite shown on the takealot pic, the 2KVA model doesn't have monitor ports on the side.

Did anyone ever open the inverter and check the PCB for serial pins that are not used for the smaller models? Only the 3.5/5.5KVA models have the ports available. I am just hoping that Fivestar uses the same PCB layout but just not offering the ports on the enclosure.

Community, any idea?

 

8 hours ago, MikeCPT said:

However, despite shown on the takealot pic, the 2KVA model doesn't have monitor ports on the side.

Some of the smaller Voltronic models have only a USB port, not a USB port and RS-232 port. You can use the USB port on those models to monitor with Watchpower and other monitoring programs.

Does yours have a USB port? I assume it would, as that's how you update firmware on these smaller models.

4 hours ago, Coulomb said:

Some of the smaller Voltronic models have only a USB port, not a USB port and RS-232 port. You can use the USB port on those models to monitor with Watchpower and other monitoring programs.

Does yours have a USB port? I assume it would, as that's how you update firmware on these smaller models.

Hi Coulomb,

no, my model (VL2012P) doesn't have an USB port that is available to outside of the housing. Do you know the equivalent Voltronic product? Usually, USB ports are more "sophisticated" than simple serial pins. So I am not sure if they would put such a port on the PCB without making it available to the user.

Did anyone ever open the housing and has a pic of the PCB?

Mike

3 hours ago, MikeCPT said:

Did anyone ever open the housing and has a pic of the PCB?

There are pictures of the comms board for the 5 kVA models here. The versions without the RS-232 port look quite similar, except that the RJ-45 socket is missing. These connect to a 6-pin socket on the control board. But some of the smaller models don't have a control board at all, and have a processor directly on the main board. If you can find the processor (it will have 48-100 pins on it), there may be a 6 pin socket nearby marked with something like "To comms". But if you have a model with the 8-bit processor, it may not have the necessary UART logic on the chip.

3 hours ago, MikeCPT said:

Do you know the equivalent Voltronic product?

Interestingly, there isn't one. The closest would be the Axpert KS 1K, but that has only 1000 W output. Yours seems to be advertised as 2000 W, yet several customers complain that it's only 1500 W.

https://voltronicpower.com/en-US/Product/Detail/Axpert-KS-1KVA-5KVA

The manual shows the USB port (marked 16):

Can you confirm that it's definitely a PWM model, and definitely 12 V?

Edit: You can see the "(TO COM)" connector near the top right corner of this recently posted image:

Edited August 8, 20232 yr by Coulomb

On 2023/08/08 at 11:42 AM, Coulomb said:

There are pictures of the comms board for the 5 kVA models here. The versions without the RS-232 port look quite similar, except that the RJ-45 socket is missing. These connect to a 6-pin socket on the control board. But some of the smaller models don't have a control board at all, and have a processor directly on the main board. If you can find the processor (it will have 48-100 pins on it), there may be a 6 pin socket nearby marked with something like "To comms". But if you have a model with the 8-bit processor, it may not have the necessary UART logic on the chip.

Interestingly, there isn't one. The closest would be the Axpert KS 1K, but that has only 1000 W output. Yours seems to be advertised as 2000 W, yet several customers complain that it's only 1500 W.

https://voltronicpower.com/en-US/Product/Detail/Axpert-KS-1KVA-5KVA

The manual shows the USB port (marked 16):

Can you confirm that it's definitely a PWM model, and definitely 12 V?

Edit: You can see the "(TO COM)" connector near the top right corner of this recently posted image:

Thank you so much, but I think the Fivestar PCB board must look different because the ports at the bottom of the housing are completely different. 

On 2023/08/14 at 1:30 PM, MikeCPT said:

Thank you so much, but I think the Fivestar PCB board must look different because the ports at the bottom of the housing are completely different. 

How would one earth this inverter?

Or am I opening a can of worms?

15 hours ago, McGuywer said:

How would one earth this inverter?

There are two circles below the AC input and output rectangle, with earth symbols below that. I'm guessing that you add your own eye terminal to those screw holes.

1 hour ago, Coulomb said:

There are two circles below the AC input and output rectangle, with earth symbols below that. I'm guessing that you add your own eye terminal to those screw holes.

You are absolutely right. Putting Earth on it, is very easy and straight forward. The screws are marked with the Earth symbol.

However, it doesn't answer my original question to find a way to monitor the inverter.....🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

We also have exactly the same 10kva single phase inverter. We have 4 X 550watt panels in 2 strings all together 8 panels producing 188vdc. As soon as we turn on the solar panels ala 33 appears and the solar does not charge the batteries. This is frustrating as the error codes in the manual does not mention ala 33. We tried isolating the solar panels, turning them on and off, no luck. Can anyone please give a solution to this error code? please!

On 2023/03/03 at 12:48 PM, ABDurbs said:

I purchased that exact same model a month ago and so far I am very happy with it. Build quality is very good and it does exactly what I want it to do. The load I have on it is never over 400watt and mostly around 300watt.

The downside is that there seems to be zero backup from Fivestar SA themselevs, they just never get back to you, and there is no load reading on the LCD panel. I purchased a digital watt meter from Geewiz and that works perfectly. The retailer did answer any queries I had.

Like any inverter it needs to be installed in a well ventilated room otherwise it is going to overheat and you could have an issue.

If I had spare R150k sitting in a cupboard I would be paying an expert to install a soalr unit, but I dont, so this will have to do for this pensioner now 😄

Apologies for intruding. If the cooling fans are blowing down like the inverter looks upside down, it might cause overheating problems. Warm temperature floats upwards, hence the fans must either suck hot air up or blow from the bottom upwards.

My 10kw Five Star is now running for two years none stop. Cooling is key, cap's and other electronics don't like heat.

Thx for all the other advise

10 hours ago, Gertjie said:

Apologies for intruding. If the cooling fans are blowing down like the inverter looks upside down, it might cause overheating problems. Warm temperature floats upwards, hence the fans must either suck hot air up or blow from the bottom upwards.

My 10kw Five Star is now running for two years none stop. Cooling is key, cap's and other electronics don't like heat.

Thx for all the other advise

That was a temp instalation.

 

My Fivestar 3kva has 2 fans sucking hot air out @Gertjie 

1) When a fan is attached on the top of a heat sink in "sucking" direction, the air enters fins (or pins) in laminar matter (at least relative to a larger vortex scales than fin/pin distance). As such, the boundary layer around heat transfer surfaces is thick, and heat transfer is rather poor. More, in one-sided sink construction with a typical fan, there will be a "dead zone" at the center with poor air flow, exactly in the place where the heat is generated beneath the sink.

(2) When a fan blows into the heat sink blades, the output air flow is turbulent, and thermal boundary layer around metal surfaces is thin, so the air flow penetrates deeper into fin structure and close to metal surfaces, providing good heat transfer. And the highest [turbulent] air velocity is around the center of sink, where the thermal "stress" is highest.

So, it looks like the case (2) has clear advantage over case (1). Unfortunately, there is one more factor, which is the fan performance under different surrounding conditions. Unlike blowers who are creating higher pressure relative the ambient space (and used in heat-pipe designs inside laptops), axial fans provide better airflow performance when sucking air out of a tighter space into ambient, so the case (1) has some preference here.

On the other hand, when an axial fan faces high aerodynamic impedance like when blowing in, it can "short-circuit" itself and provide only little to no airflow. So the use of axial fan has some advantage in weak thermal case (1), while performance of the same fan is reduced by running it into a pressurized (but more thermally-efficient) area.

So the case (1) has poor heat transfer but better fan performance, and case (2) has better heat transfer but poorer fan performance. The net result is "it depends", which includes several factors as fin thickness and spacing. And it depends on fan construction. There are three types of axial fans, tube-axial, vane-axial, and propellers, which can have blades optimized for performance in one or other direction. Tube-axial fans also have good pressurizing performance, and are used in blade servers. So the results may vary.

Obviously, the best result can be achieved with a dual-fan design, where one fan blows in, and another suck the air out.

In mining ventilation shafts the fans blow cooled air into the mine and on the other end hot air is pulled out.

Good day,

I'm not sure if this discussion is still active. I need a manual for a Five Star MP3524/24V3500VA model VGN-3524-FS. We changed from Gel to Lithium.

At menu item 5, other inverters allow battery type. For this one, Menu 5 is SOC with a 100% as the setting. Menu item 24 show btt as USE. I can figure out where to change from 12V to 24V

All assistance will b appreciated

Regards 

3 hours ago, ChristiaanB said:

I can figure out where to change from 12V to 24V

Err, change from 12 V to 24 V? Lithium or Gel or fairy dust, it still has to be a nominally 24 V battery. Your gel modules (perhaps paralleled pairs) would have been in series, making 24 V nominal. The float voltage is likely OK, but the lithiums will appreciate a lower CV or Bulk voltage, perhaps 27.6 to 28.0 V. Perhaps you can find a pair of settings side by side that suggest float and bulk setting voltages.

Obviously, a manual would be best. Are they not on the Fivestar web site somewhere?

Edited January 5, 20242 yr by Coulomb

3 hours ago, ChristiaanB said:

Good day,

I'm not sure if this discussion is still active. I need a manual for a Five Star MP3524/24V3500VA model VGN-3524-FS. We changed from Gel to Lithium.

At menu item 5, other inverters allow battery type. For this one, Menu 5 is SOC with a 100% as the setting. Menu item 24 show btt as USE. I can figure out where to change from 12V to 24V

All assistance will b appreciated

Regards 

Battery setting range is in multiples of 12V even for 24V system. 

Manual included. Setting 5 is %. 

 

Fivestar Manual - another type - same setttings (1).pdf