Hi there

Just had a re-advance approved, I have about 140k to spend on a starter system, or at least, that's what I want to spend.

I am aiming at beating loadshedding, beating Eskom is not VIP in my list right now. But getting the system up quickly is of importance. But I am very much n00b.

From the inverter side it seems Deye is the better one. Any brands I should stay away from? If I stick with www.solar.co.za which is the better battery? Dyness, BYD, Shoto, CFE, Pylontech?

I am thinking 5kw inverter, a 5kwa battery, and 6 panels for now. Geysers and a/c and pool will remain on Eskom. It's really about having light, and music / TV. The stove is gas already.

But I'd prefer to just buy all at one place, and just let them sort the install and config out as well.

It can be overwhelming indeed. 140k should get you a base system like that. Just something to note with some of the batteries, e.g. Dyness / Pylontech - they are 0.5C so you'd only be able to draw a max of 50% the batteries capacity in power. There are other batteries such as Greenrich which allow you to draw more. Its a consideration for loadshedding as that limits what you can run 

Supply is pretty limited at the moment so if you can find places with stock then get it - check other users' installs and see who they used - there are a lot of flyby night guys so please please do your due diligence 

https://www.solarwaysuppliers.co.za/product-category/solar-packages/5kw-solar-packages/ has some decent kits and stock

solar.co.za also has decent kits and can recommend installers for you

@Leshen or @Steve87 are some notable installers on the forum that you could also reach out to

5 hours ago, mzezman said:

Just something to note with some of the batteries, e.g. Dyness / Pylontech - they are 0.5C so you'd only be able to draw a max of 50% the batteries capacity in power

Just to clarify, you mean a 0.5C battery can only discharge at a max of half its capacity per hour? 
Not that it can only go down to 50% of its capacity. (as in State of Charge)?

So a 2.5kWh 0.5C battery can only give you 1.25kW in an hour. But in two hours it can give you the full 2.5kW, although you should only run it down to 10% or 20% of its SoC, depending on what's recommended?

 

2 minutes ago, grapgat said:

Just to clarify, you mean a 0.5C battery can only discharge at a max of half its capacity per hour? 

Correct. Take a Pylontech US3000C as example. It has a capacity of 74Ah and should not be discharged/charged continuously with more than 37A (roughly 1,800W). So even if your inverter is capable of providing 5kW, your battery will limit your system to around 1.8kW while running on batteries. Which for your case of lights, TV, etc. should be enough. But it also means being diligent and not switching on a kettle while running on battery. Of course, if you add more batteries to your system (at a later stage), then your system capacity will increase (e.g. 3x Pylontech US3000C will allow you to fully utilize the 5kW inverter)

7 minutes ago, grapgat said:

Not that it can only go down to 50% of its capacity. (as in State of Charge)?

No, the C rating is only relating to continuous power draw.

E.g., for a Pylontech US3000C the depth of discharge is 90% (so down to 10% state of charge). Hence of a nominal capacity of 3,552Wh you can use 3,374Wh

10 minutes ago, grapgat said:

So a 2.5kWh 0.5C battery can only give you 1.25kW in an hour.

Correct. A Pylon US2000C with 50Ah capacity has a max. continuous discharge/charge of 25A (roughly 1,200W)

15 minutes ago, grapgat said:

But in two hours it can give you the full 2.5kW, although you should only run it down to 10% or 20% of its SoC, depending on what's recommended?

Correct. A Pylon US2000C with 50Ah (2400Wh) nominal capacity and 90% depth of discharge has a usable capacity of 2,280Wh. That roughly means 1,100W load for a period of 2h

4 minutes ago, wolfandy said:

Correct. Take a Pylontech US3000C as example. It has a capacity of 74Ah and should not be discharged/charged continuously with more than 37A (roughly 1,800W). So even if your inverter is capable of providing 5kW, your battery will limit your system to around 1.8kW while running on batteries. Which for your case of lights, TV, etc. should be enough. But it also means being diligent and not switching on a kettle while running on battery. Of course, if you add more batteries to your system (at a later stage), then your system capacity will increase (e.g. 3x Pylontech US3000C will allow you to fully utilize the 5kW inverter)

No, the C rating is only relating to continuous power draw.

E.g., for a Pylontech US3000C the depth of discharge is 90% (so down to 10% state of charge). Hence of a nominal capacity of 3,552Wh you can use 3,374Wh

Correct. A Pylon US2000C with 50Ah capacity has a max. continuous discharge/charge of 25A (roughly 1,200W)

Correct. A Pylon US2000C with 50Ah (2400Wh) nominal capacity and 90% depth of discharge has a usable capacity of 2,280Wh. That roughly means 1,100W load for a period of 2h

Thanks for clarifying those items, very important and I think we take it for granted once we know it 

May I suggest using a 2nd life battery from Revov. I know when 2nd life is said it's like a swear word. But look at the spec sheet and quite a number of clients are looking at it and a few have gone with it. Just a bit more kWh for the money spent as well. Just for more confusion haha

 

18 hours ago, mzezman said:

It can be overwhelming indeed. 140k should get you a base system like that. Just something to note with some of the batteries, e.g. Dyness / Pylontech - they are 0.5C so you'd only be able to draw a max of 50% the batteries capacity in power. There are other batteries such as Greenrich which allow you to draw more. Its a consideration for loadshedding as that limits what you can run 

Supply is pretty limited at the moment so if you can find places with stock then get it - check other users' installs and see who they used - there are a lot of flyby night guys so please please do your due diligence 

https://www.solarwaysuppliers.co.za/product-category/solar-packages/5kw-solar-packages/ has some decent kits and stock

solar.co.za also has decent kits and can recommend installers for you

@Leshen or @Steve87 are some notable installers on the forum that you could also reach out to

That's some very important infor to chew on, @mzezman, thank you.

So on price vs discharge I need to look at 1C, specifically if I want to go one battery only. So right now I am eyeing a DEYE 5kw inverter, and a Hubble 5.12kwh battery. And a couple of solar panels. That should put us on our way. It's nice looking at the bundles, build the design, and get them to install it too. My hope to get everything from one place seems impossible though.

Thanks again!

37 minutes ago, KrayFish404 said:

a Hubble 5.12kwh

I would also compare price against 2x Pylontech US3000C as alternative option (I have no clue about current pricing and availability)

8 minutes ago, wolfandy said:

I would also compare price against 2x Pylontech US3000C as alternative option (I have no clue about current pricing and availability)

It's about 34k (Hubble) vs 26k (PT US3000C).

To double up it's about 18k extra. And then you still only have 3.6kwh x 2, giving you 7.2.

Then I would almost want to rather say go the HinaESS or Shoto, they are about 27k each, double them up and you end up with 10.24kwh, and not just 7.2.

Man there's just no clear path ha ha.

23 hours ago, Dylboy said:

May I suggest using a 2nd life battery from Revov. I know when 2nd life is said it's like a swear word. But look at the spec sheet and quite a number of clients are looking at it and a few have gone with it. Just a bit more kWh for the money spent as well. Just for more confusion haha

 

I'm just so sceptic of using "2nd hand" batteries. Depending on what has been refurbished though. But, looking at their 5kwh battery it is quite a lot more than what I see from other sites, going at R33k, I see a Hubble for the same price.

 

 

37 minutes ago, KrayFish404 said:

I'm just so sceptic of using "2nd hand" batteries. Depending on what has been refurbished though. But, looking at their 5kwh battery it is quite a lot more than what I see from other sites, going at R33k, I see a Hubble for the same price.

 

 

There's nothing refurbished. The cells used to be in EVs. EV batteries need to be able to charge & discharge at a rate far beyond what we need in a home. 

The theory is that cells that are no longer useful in EVs are still useful in less demanding situations. 

The theory also goes that this is good ecologically because the EV batteries are not dumped but do another 10 years work. 

Edited March 8, 20233 yr by Bobster.

1 hour ago, Bobster. said:

There's nothing refurbished. The cells used to be in EVs. EV batteries need to be able to charge & discharge at a rate far beyond what we need in a home. 

The theory is that cells that are no longer useful in EVs are still useful in less demanding situations. 

The theory also goes that this is good ecologically because the EV batteries are not dumped but do another 10 years work. 

Fair enough, but the price doesn't make sense. Getting one of these versus getting a Hubble, both have the same/similar kwh rating, but they are the same price. Apart from being environmentally friendly, what other positive am I missing? Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to be arrogant, I am really asking here for help. I will need about 10kwh, so this can easily cause me to make a 60k mistake.

 

 

2 hours ago, Bobster. said:

There's nothing refurbished. The cells used to be in EVs. EV batteries need to be able to charge & discharge at a rate far beyond what we need in a home. 

The theory is that cells that are no longer useful in EVs are still useful in less demanding situations. 

The theory also goes that this is good ecologically because the EV batteries are not dumped but do another 10 years work. 

Correct

Many of the built battery brands that use LiFePo4 cells use second-life cells but do not explicitly state that in their spec sheets or marketing materials mostly due to the confusion around the terminology.

Sunsynk claim to use NEW cells in the video I watched from their factory tour.

Not many of the LiFePo4 brands state if they use NEW cells or not.

There are many interesting articles and insights about this topic.
Below is one I read this morning.

https://www.energy-storage.news/mercedes-benz-energy-ceo-second-life-ess-market-going-into-consolidation-phase/

Edited March 8, 20233 yr by WannabeSolarSparky

1 hour ago, KrayFish404 said:

Fair enough, but the price doesn't make sense. Getting one of these versus getting a Hubble, both have the same/similar kwh rating, but they are the same price. Apart from being environmentally friendly, what other positive am I missing? Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to be arrogant, I am really asking here for help. I will need about 10kwh, so this can easily cause me to make a 60k mistake.

 

 

For any battery, different retailers will charge different prices. So try to compare two apples in the same tree.

I'm not briefing for Revov, I'm not saying their pricing is sharp, I was just explaining what "second life" batteries are. I think Revov is the most obvious example in SA, but I don't think they'll be the last.

40 minutes ago, WannabeSolarSparky said:

Many of the built battery brands that use LiFePo4 cells use second-life cells but do not explicitly state that in their spec sheets or marketing materials mostly due to the confusion around the terminology.

Well that's interesting, though I'm only a little bit surprised.

So maybe we should overlook the number of lifes a brand of battery has had and just try to look at how that brand (and that model of that brand) performs.

Ok, so if I take your recomendation and go for the Revov, decide on this:

https://powerforum-store.co.za/collections/batterys/products/r9-51-2v-220ah-11-2kwh

https://powerforum-store.co.za/collections/inverters/products/sunsynk-5kw-1p-hybrid-pv-inverter-48v

https://powerforum-store.co.za/collections/solar-panels/products/545w-super-high-power-mono-perc-hiku-with-mc4-evo2

 

So that is:

• Revov SYS-2LiFE-R9-CANDR-220-11.2 @ R 51,915.60
• 6x  545W Canadian Solar @ R 4,228.55 = R 33,828,40
• Sunsynk 5kW 1P Hybrid @ R 25,725.50

Total of R 111,469,50.

Would that be your preferred choice? And installing in Cape Town, any recomendations? 

18 hours ago, KrayFish404 said:

Ok, so if I take your recomendation and go for the Revov, decide on this:

https://powerforum-store.co.za/collections/batterys/products/r9-51-2v-220ah-11-2kwh

https://powerforum-store.co.za/collections/inverters/products/sunsynk-5kw-1p-hybrid-pv-inverter-48v

https://powerforum-store.co.za/collections/solar-panels/products/545w-super-high-power-mono-perc-hiku-with-mc4-evo2

 

So that is:

• Revov SYS-2LiFE-R9-CANDR-220-11.2 @ R 51,915.60
• 6x  545W Canadian Solar @ R 4,228.55 = R 33,828,40
• Sunsynk 5kW 1P Hybrid @ R 25,725.50

Total of R 111,469,50.

Would that be your preferred choice? And installing in Cape Town, any recomendations? 

That is a very good price for the capacity. Give the Powerforumstore a call, they will be able to recommend a good installer. They will also be able to give you some insights on your choices.

 

50 minutes ago, YellowTapemeasure said:

That is a very good price for the capacity. Give the Powerforumstore a call, they will be able to recommend a good installer. They will also be able to give you some insights on your choices.

 

I spoke to Wimpie at PFS, I have a final quote and 2 names. Thank you everyone for all the help, I learned quite a bit in the past 2 days because of this forum and you guys.