Good Day everyone, I need advise and recommendations please. I want to build myself a power trolley to use during load shedding.

I decided to use "THIS" 2kw combo to power 400w draw for around 4 hours.

I need advise on the cables and breakers and other fancy stuff to connect the following:

• Battery to the inverter
• Inverter to a normal 3 point plug that I can plug and leave into the wall.
• I want to be able to plug and leave my electronics directly into the Inverter permanently, and leave the inverter permanently plugged into the wall. When Eskom is on the battery should charge and the electronics should get power from Eskom, and then when the power goes off, the battery should kick in and power the electronics automatically.

 

Thank You so much.

 

Requirements:

• I want the system to be portable(trolley) to be able to move it to where it is needed if it needs to be moved.
• I want to be able to leave my TV, XBOX and sound bar plugged into it permanently, and the system must be plugged in to the wall permanently.
• I want to be able to upgrade the system in the future if necessary (Adding another battery or adding a solar panel when going camping).

 

 

 

Can someone advise what is needed to set this whole system up please to make it safe and working 100% as described (Breakers, Cables etc)

 

 

Edited September 7, 20232 yr by Power13
I need further advise since I decided on a inverter and battery

3 hours ago, Power13 said:

Good Day everyone, I need advise and recommendations please. I want to build myself a power trolley to use during load shedding.

Requirements:

• I want to power the following: WIFI, TV, XBOX, Sound bar, Laptop, and maybe a light or 3.
• I want it to be able to give power for around 4+ hours.
• I want the whole system to be safe and reliable without any hazards.
• I want the system to be portable(trolley) to be able to move it to where it is needed if it needs to be moved.
• I want to be able to leave my TV, XBOX and sound bar plugged into it permanently, and the system must be plugged in to the wall permanently.
• I want to be able to upgrade the system in the future if necessary.

 

My options so far: Click on the (Click here) to see the purchase links for more info.

Option 1: 12V Battery 100AH with 1200w Inverter

Inverter = Fivestar 1200w 12v Hybrid Ups Inverter AL1212-FS (click here)

Battery Choices = - VESTWOODS SMART 12V 100AH LIFEPO4 (click here)

                               - REVOV LiFe 100Ah 1.28kWh 12V LiFePO4 Battery (click here)

 

Option 2: 24V 100AH battery with 3000w Inverter.

MUST 3KVA Inverter + 24V 100AH MUST Lithium Battery Combo. (click here)

 

Please advise me what option would work for my needs and be the best/easiest to put together using a battery trolley.

Can someone also advise what is needed to set this whole system up please to make it safe and working 100% as described (Breakers, Cables etc)

 

Thank you so much

Without the load values for the items you want to power a complete answer is not straight forward. See if you can get the Watt rating on the name/rating plate for equipment. 

Option 1 might not cover the 4hrs required. 1000Wh energy that you can use before recharge. Thus only 250W power draw. 

I doubt either option allows upgrade possibilities which means changing the inverters in future. 

Option 1 limits the panels you can use as larger panels have a Voc around 50V @ 25deg C and when cold the voltage will go over the 50V max and can damage the solar controller.

Rather get a good base with a 48V inverter and battery. 

My 2c.

You didn't say what your budget is, quite important I think.

Why not just get one of these?

https://www.rctzone.co.za/rct-mp-t1000s

Or the bigger version:

https://www.rctzone.co.za/power-solutions/inverter/rct-mp-t2000s

It will end up cheaper than building something similar up from parts, would probably look better and it covers your requirements.

A friend of mine has a similar combo and it's a permanent fixture in his lounge, with the TV, computer and things always running through it.

 

Edited September 6, 20232 yr by jbroo

@Power13

I agree with @Scorp007 on his comments above the inverter does not leave much room for future upgrade on solar with max voc of 50v and pwm. Suggested inverter for the same price much better specs from Solar Warehouse.

https://solarwarehousesa.com/products/hybrid-inverter-2-kva-1600-watt-mppt-12v-sun-solar?variant=44738342879553&currency=ZAR&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&gclid=Cj0KCQjwxuCnBhDLARIsAB-cq1qufJqfzR13FhaVPT4YlnVBFM7kgImTVuuuH54islGndxiFT8LRIdgaApwGEALw_wcB

You will need 2 x 100ah Vestwood (better choice) in parallel for the loads you want to cover for 4h+ especially running the Xbox and soundbar. Like @Scorp007 said try and get accurate load values. This battery 12v 200ah lfp battery available from Solar Warehouse

https://solarwarehousesa.com/products/conderenergy-1-2-kwh-12v-100ah-wall-mount-lithium-battery-1?variant=45484123717953&currency=ZAR&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&gclid=Cj0KCQjwxuCnBhDLARIsAB-cq1pNjs_3PSF93hRg86sIj-iHk0MAXIshv-DXIjKHf8e7cR9uIVHoOVsaAvBjEALw_wcB

6 hours ago, jbroo said:

You didn't say what your budget is, quite important I think.

Why not just get one of these?

https://www.rctzone.co.za/rct-mp-t1000s

Or the bigger version:

https://www.rctzone.co.za/power-solutions/inverter/rct-mp-t2000s

It will end up cheaper than building something similar up from parts, would probably look better and it covers your requirements.

A friend of mine has a similar combo and it's a permanent fixture in his lounge, with the TV, computer and things always running through it.

 

The 12V version will never make the 4hrs required running from a 100Ah lead acid. Interesting that no information on the battery is supplied in the spec sheet. 

17 minutes ago, Scorp007 said:

The 12V version will never make the 4hrs required running from a 100Ah lead acid. Interesting that no information on the battery is supplied in the spec sheet. 

That is how people buy these trolleys unknowingly that they are lead acid batteries supplying the inverter. 

Edited September 7, 20232 yr by TaliaB

1 hour ago, TaliaB said:

That is how people buy these trolleys unknowingly that they are lead acid batteries supplying the inverter. 

I think it's fairly obvious - assume lead acid unless otherwise specified. They would be sure to tell you if it was LFP.

1 hour ago, Scorp007 said:

The 12V version will never make the 4hrs required running from a 100Ah lead acid. Interesting that no information on the battery is supplied in the spec sheet. 

Hi, thank you for the comment, the battery provided in the 12V combo is indeed a Lithium battery. But after reading the comments I might opt for the bigger size inverter etc.

2 hours ago, TaliaB said:

@Power13

I agree with @Scorp007 on his comments above the inverter does not leave much room for future upgrade on solar with max voc of 50v and pwm. Suggested inverter for the same price much better specs from Solar Warehouse.

https://solarwarehousesa.com/products/hybrid-inverter-2-kva-1600-watt-mppt-12v-sun-solar?variant=44738342879553&currency=ZAR&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&gclid=Cj0KCQjwxuCnBhDLARIsAB-cq1qufJqfzR13FhaVPT4YlnVBFM7kgImTVuuuH54islGndxiFT8LRIdgaApwGEALw_wcB

You will need 2 x 100ah Vestwood (better choice) in parallel for the loads you want to cover for 4h+ especially running the Xbox and soundbar. Like @Scorp007 said try and get accurate load values. This battery 12v 200ah lfp battery available from Solar Warehouse

https://solarwarehousesa.com/products/conderenergy-1-2-kwh-12v-100ah-wall-mount-lithium-battery-1?variant=45484123717953&currency=ZAR&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&gclid=Cj0KCQjwxuCnBhDLARIsAB-cq1pNjs_3PSF93hRg86sIj-iHk0MAXIshv-DXIjKHf8e7cR9uIVHoOVsaAvBjEALw_wcB

Thank you for the comment, I am just worried about the reliability of those 2 brands as I haven't heard anything about it yet. Do you maybe have experience regarding that brand

8 hours ago, jbroo said:

You didn't say what your budget is, quite important I think.

Why not just get one of these?

https://www.rctzone.co.za/rct-mp-t1000s

Or the bigger version:

https://www.rctzone.co.za/power-solutions/inverter/rct-mp-t2000s

It will end up cheaper than building something similar up from parts, would probably look better and it covers your requirements.

A friend of mine has a similar combo and it's a permanent fixture in his lounge, with the TV, computer and things always running through it.

 

Do they have Lithium batteries? Also what the cycles rating at 80% draw down.

11 hours ago, Scorp007 said:

Without the load values for the items you want to power a complete answer is not straight forward. See if you can get the Watt rating on the name/rating plate for equipment. 

Option 1 might not cover the 4hrs required. 1000Wh energy that you can use before recharge. Thus only 250W power draw. 

I doubt either option allows upgrade possibilities which means changing the inverters in future. 

Option 1 limits the panels you can use as larger panels have a Voc around 50V @ 25deg C and when cold the voltage will go over the 50V max and can damage the solar controller.

Rather get a good base with a 48V inverter and battery. 

My 2c.

Hi, I don't want to use panels as I just want it charging by plugging it into the wall plug. 

 

The total amount of watts will be about 400W.

34 minutes ago, Power13 said:

Hi, I don't want to use panels as I just want it charging by plugging it into the wall plug. 

 

The total amount of watts will be about 400W.

So to get through a four load shed you're going to need nearly 2kWh of battery. A single 100Ah 12V battery like the ones you link to will not be enough. The 24V battery should do that job. Remember that lithium batteries are usually designed to shut down when they are 90% discharged.

The 24V battery appears to have a charge current of 100A and is rated at 100Ah. So you will be able to recharge between outages.

400W from a 12V battery is about 35A. From a 24V battery half of that. All the example batteries will deliver that.

If you have a way to monitor the SOC of the battery, then do that for a while with the items that you propose. See how it's going. If you're close to the edge on a 4 hour load shed then leave it as it is. If you want to start backing up more, check out the rated consumption first. A microwave or a kettle can easily draw 2Kw. Add the 400W and you're right on the limit for your battery.

I'm not an electrician and can't advise on what other breakers etc you will need.

1 hour ago, Power13 said:

Do they have Lithium batteries? Also what the cycles rating at 80% draw down.

I don't think so. Looks like they only come with SLA batteries, though you could likely replace them with LFP when they wear out and adjust your charge voltages on the on the inverter to suit them.

Again, depending on your budget, but this might suit you for a LFP plug and play trolley system. You might outgrow this however, if you want to add more than your TV, Xbox, etc in future... so it depends on your plans.

For something bigger, this would also work.

Otherwise you can always buy everything separately and build yourself or get it installed, but a good installation will cost you.

Edited September 7, 20232 yr by jbroo

1 hour ago, Bobster. said:

So to get through a four load shed you're going to need nearly 2kWh of battery. A single 100Ah 12V battery like the ones you link to will not be enough. The 24V battery should do that job. Remember that lithium batteries are usually designed to shut down when they are 90% discharged.

The 24V battery appears to have a charge current of 100A and is rated at 100Ah. So you will be able to recharge between outages.

400W from a 12V battery is about 35A. From a 24V battery half of that. All the example batteries will deliver that.

If you have a way to monitor the SOC of the battery, then do that for a while with the items that you propose. See how it's going. If you're close to the edge on a 4 hour load shed then leave it as it is. If you want to start backing up more, check out the rated consumption first. A microwave or a kettle can easily draw 2Kw. Add the 400W and you're right on the limit for your battery.

I'm not an electrician and can't advise on what other breakers etc you will need.

Thank you so much this have been informative. Thank You

1 hour ago, jbroo said:

I don't think so. Looks like they only come with SLA batteries, though you could likely replace them with LFP when they wear out and adjust your charge voltages on the on the inverter to suit them.

Again, depending on your budget, but this might suit you for a LFP plug and play trolley system. You might outgrow this however, if you want to add more than your TV, Xbox, etc in future... so it depends on your plans.

For something bigger, this would also work.

Otherwise you can always buy everything separately and build yourself or get it installed, but a good installation will cost you.

Thank you but I feel building such a trolley would be cheaper and I could add my own parts which can accommodate change in the future.

16 minutes ago, Power13 said:

Thank you but I feel building such a trolley would be cheaper and I could add my own parts which can accommodate change in the future.

No problem. This post may be of use to you then: https://powerforum.co.za/topic/17359-diy-3kw-trolley-inverter-system/

I'm sure there are others on this forum and the internet.

5 hours ago, jbroo said:

I think it's fairly obvious - assume lead acid unless otherwise specified. They would be sure to tell you if it was LFP.

For some it might be but others won't be able to guess. If indeed lithium as it seems then at least provide the cycles and more information. 

It's like having specs on a car without knowing what the kW or Nm is? 

5 hours ago, Power13 said:

Hi, I don't want to use panels as I just want it charging by plugging it into the wall plug. 

 

The total amount of watts will be about 400W.

In that case just ignore the 12V version that will only be good for just over 2.5hrs.

I agree with @Bobster.

3 hours ago, jbroo said:

I don't think so. Looks like they only come with SLA batteries, though you could likely replace them with LFP when they wear out and adjust your charge voltages on the on the inverter to suit them.

 

According to the specs the charge voltage is 13.7/27.4V. This will be too low to charge a lithium later. 

We should never just assume the voltage can be adjusted higher to suit lithium. 

 

8 minutes ago, Scorp007 said:

For some it might be but others won't be able to guess. If indeed lithium as it seems then at least provide the cycles and more information. 

It's like having specs on a car without knowing what the kW or Nm is? 

I suspect they do this to catch out the less knowledgeable people out there. I agree, it's bordering on dishonest.

1 minute ago, Scorp007 said:

According to the specs the charge voltage is 13.7/27.4V. This will be too low to charge a lithium later. 

We should never just assume the voltage can be adjusted higher to suit lithium. 

 

I said "likely", not "definitely". I didn't check the inverter's specs in depth, so don't know if those parameters are adjustable on that model. The spec sheet doesn't rule out that they're NOT adjustable either.

The battery type is however listed clearly in the spec sheet...

1 hour ago, jbroo said:

I said "likely", not "definitely". I didn't check the inverter's specs in depth, so don't know if those parameters are adjustable on that model. The spec sheet doesn't rule out that they're NOT adjustable either.

The battery type is however listed clearly in the spec sheet...

I could not get the info you saw. This is part of the 2 page specs I saw. Over voltage kicks in at 14.2/28.4V.

Not sure if they provide a charge voltage range that they need to point out the maximum setting. A bit vague to say the solar charge controller has a maximum of 25V DC input. Voc or Vmp? 

 

Thank you for the comment, I am just worried about the reliability of those 2 brands as I haven't heard anything about it yet. Do you maybe have experience regarding that brand

I've used the Vestwoods batteries before - can't say anything bad about them considering the price. Have a look at this teardown of the Vestwoods battery: