May 13, 20197 yr On 2019/05/11 at 1:36 PM, plonkster said: That's why we recommend lowering the charge voltage. At 53.2V it's at 3.55V per cell, which is already past the "elbow" point on the voltage chart, that point where LFP cells spike up easily in voltage. Lower it to a lower 3.45V per cell, or 52V. thanks Plonkster! Ive set my Bulk charge to 52.1v and my flout charge to 52v I hope this is ok
May 13, 20197 yr something else I've noticed. When I installed my 4 x 2.2kwh pylontechs on the 22nd March 2019 (53 day ago) I had a full complement of 200Ah. I've noticed that it slowly came down to 199.80 to 199.60 and now 199.40. Is this normal? at this rate i will lose 4Ah a year - in 10 years my batteries will only be able to store 160Ah. they would have lost 20% of there Ah capacity. Not sure if my logic is making any sense here?? any advice / input is welcome please.
May 13, 20197 yr 20 minutes ago, jasonvanwyk said: something else I've noticed. When I installed my 4 x 2.2kwh pylontechs on the 22nd March 2019 (53 day ago) I had a full complement of 200Ah. I've noticed that it slowly came down to 199.80 to 199.60 and now 199.40. Is this normal? at this rate i will lose 4Ah a year - in 10 years my batteries will only be able to store 160Ah. they would have lost 20% of there Ah capacity. Not sure if my logic is making any sense here?? any advice / input is welcome please. I suspect they will stabilise around 90% capacity. This is what is seen on the tesla batteries used in their range of vehicles.
May 13, 20197 yr On 2019/05/11 at 1:39 PM, Youda said: By the way - there's an OLD Pylontech paper flying around the internet, that is suggesting too high charging voltages. I bet that you are just another victim of that paper... Where? What are the voltages suggested in that paper? I used this to set up my Pylons https://www.victronenergy.com/live/battery_compatibility:pylontech_phantom
May 13, 20197 yr 48 minutes ago, root said: I suspect they will stabilise around 90% capacity. This is what is seen on the tesla batteries used in their range of vehicles. Thanks VisN. i will monitor and report back here in time to come
May 13, 20197 yr 2 hours ago, jasonvanwyk said: I've noticed that it slowly came down to 199.80 to 199.60 and now 199.40. Is this normal? All batteries do this. Even lead acid. The only time they are 100% is the very first time you use them. The degradation is a fraction of the present capacity, hence the curve will not be linear, it will tend to slow down. The batteries used in electrical vehicles are usually a slightly different chemistry (NMC or NCA), but as @root mentioned, they tend to level out around 90%. LFP batteries are deemed EOL once they have lost 20% capacity, ie around 80%. Pylontech stretches this a bit, they define EOL as 40% lost (60% capacity left), and this would be after over 6000 cycles or 15 years.
May 13, 20197 yr 56 minutes ago, plonkster said: Pylontech stretches this a bit, they define EOL as 40% lost (60% capacity left), and this would be after over 6000 cycles or 15 years. I almost get the feeling pylontech have bamboozeled me a bit. I was banking on 16 years, but it seems like I'll be lucky if i get 10?
May 13, 20197 yr On 2019/05/11 at 1:39 PM, Youda said: IMHO C.C. voltage 53.2V is too high for Pylontech. Yeah, I know that they state in their papers that you can charge up to 54, but that's the very top limit of the BMS itselfs, not the number that's safe to be set on the inverter-charger. When the charger is pushing current into the LFP cell, the voltage raises veeery slowly, but once you reach 3.5V, then the voltage has a tendency to jump-up in a second. Once a cell is above 3.6V, it generates an alarm. So, if couple of cells in the battery are undercharged, then they are still pulling the current. But since they are in series with other cells (that may be already almost charged) this passing current causes overcharging. Pylon BMS can normally stop this with it's internal ballancers, but if the charger is pushing too hard, the balancers cannot keep-up. I would suggest you to set: C.C. = 52.5 V C.V. = 52.0 V Also, you can monitor your battery during the error with the diagnostic software available here: https://powerforum.co.za/topic/2322-youdas-off-grid-lab/page/2/?tab=comments#comment-53641 By the way - there's an OLD Pylontech paper flying around the internet, that is suggesting too high charging voltages. I bet that you are just another victim of that paper... ok after some more investigation, it seems like it is my inverters that are trying to push 64v into my batteries even after I have set the bulk charge charge and flout to 52v. any one got any ideas around this?
May 14, 20197 yr On 2019/05/13 at 9:47 AM, jasonvanwyk said: ...I had a full complement of 200Ah. I've noticed that it slowly came down to 199.80 to 199.60 and now 199.40. Is this normal?... @jasonvanwyk While all the batteries are degrading over time, I have a feeling that there's something wrong in your case... Let me have two questions: - Where are you getting these capacity numbers from? (Victron BMV, BatteryView, some other GUI etc.) - Are you experiencing events where your batteries are automatically shutting down themselves?
May 14, 20197 yr 4 hours ago, Youda said: @jasonvanwyk - Where are you getting these capacity numbers from? (Victron BMV, BatteryView, some other GUI etc.) - Are you experiencing events where your batteries are automatically shutting down themselves? hi Youda, I'm using ICC, and getting the battery values from under the pylontech tab. (As soon as i get time - I'm going to follow your link https://powerforum.co.za/topic/2322-youdas-off-grid-lab/page/2/?tab=comments#comment-53641 , and try to get the battery values straight from the pylontechs themselves) I have not yet had any automatic shutdowns.
May 14, 20197 yr Okay got it. I'm not sure how the "Total AH" number is being calculated by ICC. But if you experienced no battery shutdowns, alarms and overheating, there's no reason for the battery to report capacity loss. Once you'll get to it, just check Ah capacity of the each brick using the original software. And check the reported SOH also. If you're treating the batteries good, they should be okay.
May 22, 20197 yr I had my 3kVa MultiPlus II, Venus GX and 2 x PylonTech US3000Bs installed 3 weeks ago, no panels yet, and I've also been getting these alarms every 4 days. I initially had the system set up according to the prescribed Victron guidelines i.e. 53.2V absorption and 53.0 float. I have since changed it to the recommendations from @Youda and @plonkster to 52.5V absorption and 52.0 float however I still get the alarms. I have no switches or assistants enabled. All hardware has the latest firmware loaded. I can't understand why the Parameters for the Pylons in the Venu still show 53.2V. I've also noticed this document https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Manual-Connecting-other-lithium-battery-systems-to-Multis-and-Quattros-EN.pdf which gives some different instructions to this https://www.victronenergy.com/live/battery_compatibility:pylontech_phantom which is the one I've followed.
May 23, 20197 yr Hi VisN Try running the Victron ESS assistant and enable DVCC even though you don't have any panels at the moment. I have a client that runs it as mentioned above it gives him the ability to discharge his batteries when ever he want or he can just change the ESS setting to keep batteries charged it has been running for more than 3 months with no issues. Hope this helps
May 23, 20197 yr 5 hours ago, andriesmalan said: Hi VisN Try running the Victron ESS assistant and enable DVCC even though you don't have any panels at the moment. I have a client that runs it as mentioned above it gives him the ability to discharge his batteries when ever he want or he can just change the ESS setting to keep batteries charged it has been running for more than 3 months with no issues. Hope this helps @andriesmalan Thanks, I will revisit this option. The last time I tried to enable ESS I encountered this error.
May 23, 20197 yr 30 minutes ago, VisN said: Thanks, I will revisit this option. The last time I tried to enable ESS I encountered this error. There are some things you can try. If you set the grid code to None for example, then the relay tests are skipped, and technically it can't fail. I must add though, back in the day when I was struggling with my RCD trips, this did not work for me. But it is something you can try. I must of course also add a disclaimer: If you do that, then technically you don't comply with NRS097-2-1 🙂 Also, make sure you are on the latest firmware (459). There are lots of error-11 fixes between 454 and 459.
May 23, 20197 yr 4 minutes ago, plonkster said: Also, make sure you are on the latest firmware (459). There are lots of error-11 fixes between 454 and 459. I am. 👍
May 31, 20197 yr On 2019/05/23 at 10:58 AM, andriesmalan said: Hi VisN Try running the Victron ESS assistant and enable DVCC even though you don't have any panels at the moment. I have a client that runs it as mentioned above it gives him the ability to discharge his batteries when ever he want or he can just change the ESS setting to keep batteries charged it has been running for more than 3 months with no issues. Hope this helps On 2019/05/23 at 4:38 PM, plonkster said: There are some things you can try. If you set the grid code to None for example, then the relay tests are skipped, and technically it can't fail. I must add though, back in the day when I was struggling with my RCD trips, this did not work for me. But it is something you can try. I must of course also add a disclaimer: If you do that, then technically you don't comply with NRS097-2-1 🙂 Also, make sure you are on the latest firmware (459). There are lots of error-11 fixes between 454 and 459. No alarms for 5 days now and for the first time, I see the SOC hitting 100% at times. Thank you. Now to just get my panels up.
July 14, 20197 yr Hi all, I finally received the correct BD9 adapter and made the suggested cable for the Battery View program (thanks @Youda) - I can connect to the master US2000B, however the monitoring times out after 30s to 60s - does not seem any way to let this run without the timeout happening... Anyway, had the red alarm light again this afternoon after a few more days, so opened Battery View, connected and the only thing I can seem to see on the main monitoring page is a SysError, with "Internal Communication Fail" on the master battery, causing the red alarm. There has been no load on the batteries the past few weeks, only float charging. I cannot seem to find any reason for this or what it means. The other 3 batteries in the bank cannot be monitored with the red alarm. When the master battery is restarted, everything goes back to normal and I can see all 4 batteries and their status/details - all of which look fine and within the required ranges. Any ideas what to look at next? Any way to get this BV program not to time out so I can monitor until the next alarm to see what may be causing the alarm?
July 14, 20197 yr I can keep app running for hours and it won't timeout. But I have US3000, which may have a different firmware, so cannot really compare the behavior. Looks like the electronics in your master battery is damaged. Try this: turn off the batteries disconnect the short black RJ45 cable between the module 2 and module 3 turn on the batteries With the steps above, you effectively create a two piles, with two bricks in each. I bet that one of the piles will work okay, while the other will experience those errors again. If that's the case, then you have a defective battery and should ask your vendor for a swap. Clear?
July 15, 20197 yr 12 hours ago, Youda said: I can keep app running for hours and it won't timeout. But I have US3000, which may have a different firmware, so cannot really compare the behavior. Looks like the electronics in your master battery is damaged. Try this: turn off the batteries disconnect the short black RJ45 cable between the module 2 and module 3 turn on the batteries With the steps above, you effectively create a two piles, with two bricks in each. I bet that one of the piles will work okay, while the other will experience those errors again. If that's the case, then you have a defective battery and should ask your vendor for a swap. Clear? Thanks @Youda. Will try that. Just to be clear, I only need to disconnect the RJ45 cable between battery 2 and 3 - no change to the DC cables going from the 4x batteries to the inverter; they are all connected in parallel per the manual. I'll also try swapping the current master battery to one of the others and see if the same error happens. In fact, as there is no load at the moment, I might connect each battery as a single for a few days and see if any other generates a similar error.
July 15, 20197 yr Yes, no change to the DC cables is needed. 7 minutes ago, HowardB said: I'll also try swapping the current master battery to one of the others and see if the same error happens. In fact, as there is no load at the moment, I might connect each battery as a single for a few days and see if any other generates a similar error. That would be a perfect test.
August 6, 20197 yr On 2019/02/28 at 7:50 AM, Elbow said: I connected up the RS485 monitoring. Here's what the two batteries are saying right now: Master battery (address 2): Send { "time":1551332544, "VoltageUpperLimit":53.25, "VoltageLowerLimit":47.0, "MaxChargeAmps":10.0, "MaxDischargeAmps":-25.0, "BatteryCycles":3, "BatteryVoltage":51.987, "BatteryAmps":0.0, "BatteryWatts":0.0, "BatterySOC":100.0, "RemainingAh":50.0, "RemainingWh":2497, "MinutesToRun":9999, "CellMaxVoltage":3.7, "CellLowVoltage":3.05, "CellUnderVoltage":2.9, "cellVoltage0":3.461, "cellVoltage1":3.463, "cellVoltage2":3.457, "cellVoltage3":3.456, "cellVoltage4":3.461, "cellVoltage5":3.448, "cellVoltage6":3.461, "cellVoltage7":3.463, "cellVoltage8":3.474, "cellVoltage9":3.473, "cellVoltage10":3.474, "cellVoltage11":3.474, "cellVoltage12":3.475, "cellVoltage13":3.474, "cellVoltage14":3.473, "highestCellVoltage":3.475, "lowestCellVoltage":3.448, "cellImbalancePct":0.7, "temp0":27.0, "temp1":25.0, "temp2":25.0, "temp3":25.0, "temp4":25.0, "highestTemp":27.0, "lowestTemp":25.0 } Slave Battery (address 3): Send { "time":1551332476, "VoltageUpperLimit":53.25, "VoltageLowerLimit":47.0, "MaxChargeAmps":10.0, "MaxDischargeAmps":-25.0, "BatteryCycles":3, "BatteryVoltage":52.012, "BatteryAmps":0.0, "BatteryWatts":0.0, "BatterySOC":100.0, "RemainingAh":50.0, "RemainingWh":2497, "MinutesToRun":9999, "CellMaxVoltage":3.7, "CellLowVoltage":3.05, "CellUnderVoltage":2.9, "cellVoltage0":3.468, "cellVoltage1":3.468, "cellVoltage2":3.468, "cellVoltage3":3.444, "cellVoltage4":3.469, "cellVoltage5":3.47, "cellVoltage6":3.47, "cellVoltage7":3.47, "cellVoltage8":3.468, "cellVoltage9":3.468, "cellVoltage10":3.469, "cellVoltage11":3.471, "cellVoltage12":3.469, "cellVoltage13":3.469, "cellVoltage14":3.471, "highestCellVoltage":3.471, "lowestCellVoltage":3.444, "cellImbalancePct":0.7, "temp0":27.0, "temp1":25.0, "temp2":25.0, "temp3":25.0, "temp4":25.0, "highestTemp":27.0, "lowestTemp":25.0 } That's after floating them a long time at 52V. The figures look healthy to me. Cell voltages are well in range. Balance is <1% out. Temps are fine. I will look in the docs to see if I can find anything else I can query over the RS485 (Modbus?) interface. I suppose the inverter may have misread the battery voltage and switched out of constant voltage. I'll leave the monitoring on and see if I can capture another event. Hi Elbow, I am looking for the same RS485 battery monitor you used. How do i get this. Thanks Dave
August 6, 20197 yr @DaveZA here: https://powerforum.co.za/topic/3429-pylontech-vs-raspberry-arduino-plc/?tab=comments#comment-51956
September 20, 20196 yr The charge current may be too high for the kWh of the specific Pylon battery. I found an overshoot of voltage close to full-charge. The pylon opens up at this level and the resulting higher voltage on the output of the inverter triggers a fault. Lower current setting will limit the sudden rise close to full charge. I have a new (very new!) 3.5kWh pylon and at 30A and voltage setting of 53.5V on the inverter, it is fine as the current starts dropping before the voltage goes too high. It would be nice if the inverter could sense the faster rise in voltage close to the floating voltage level and cut back on current before the voltage goes too high, resulting in the Pylon disconnecting from the inverter, causing overvoltage. Today was my first experience with Axpert and Pylon, so I am still learning. Do your own test by starting with lower current and a voltage that is maybe at 53V max. This voltage may be too low over long term for protecting the battery, but still a good test for finding the problem. Regards. Smitty from Stellenbosch. No I am not a Robot, wishing I were.
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