January 25, 20251 yr I know this sounds stupid but how does any normal house not draw more than 60A at times? I've worked out that in my new home if I run my oven, both geysers and my two ACs together that already 65A. I know this won't happen often but that's just 5 items. That's not everything else that just runs all the time. If I install a 16KW inverter will it allow to draw max between batteries and Eskom?
January 25, 20251 yr The SunSynk 16kW inverter can supply 70A on the AC side while there is no Eskom. With Eskom available, it can pass through 100A. With the cost of Eskom / Municipal power, it pays to manage the usage. Especially trying not to put all heavy loads on at the same time. If this happens by mistake while in load-shedding, we all learn very quickly. 😂 I have a number of CBI Astute Wi-Fi controllers to assist with geysers, pool pumps, etc... that can control with timers and remote control (via call phone) even when not at home.
January 25, 20251 yr Author 11 minutes ago, TimCam said: The SunSynk 16kW inverter can supply 70A on the AC side while there is no Eskom. With Eskom available, it can pass through 100A. With the cost of Eskom / Municipal power, it pays to manage the usage. Especially trying not to put all heavy loads on at the same time. If this happens by mistake while in load-shedding, we all learn very quickly. 😂 I have a number of CBI Astute Wi-Fi controllers to assist with geysers, pool pumps, etc... that can control with timers and remote control (via call phone) even when not at home. Yeah I'm learning quickly and trying to find alternatives. Where I am now I run 2 ACs all day and my bill has never been more than R250, prices in SA is shocking. Looking at all my options to reduce my loads. Very upset with myself that I didn't get a gas oven. Thinking about going dual solar and gar on geysers to cut down on electricity.
January 25, 20251 yr Do you refer to the 60A being the earth leakage breakers? These breakers are typically to protect the cables, the stove is not always part of this (earth leakage) and can have separate breaker. Same concept for geysers, and again DB board in outside building need separate DB board. And then these breakers will only trip if the load remains for specific period.
January 25, 20251 yr Author 10 minutes ago, Marius2001 said: Do you refer to the 60A being the earth leakage breakers? These breakers are typically to protect the cables, the stove is not always part of this (earth leakage) and can have separate breaker. Same concept for geysers, and again DB board in outside building need separate DB board. And then these breakers will only trip if the load remains for specific period. Referring to the supply you get from the municipality. Residential building only gets 60A supply
January 25, 20251 yr 32 minutes ago, BarendD said: Where I am now I run 2 ACs all day and my bill has never been more than R250, prices in SA is shocking. Have you not missed a Zero or two on that amount. 🤔 What you could do is get a power monitor and see your general usage and peak usage for the month. This way you can plan a system more accurately. An example device is shown below. https://sonoffafrica.co.za/product/sonoff-pow-ring-smart-power-meter/
January 25, 20251 yr Author 6 minutes ago, TimCam said: Have you not missed a Zero or two on that amount. 🤔 What you could do is get a power monitor and see your general usage and peak usage for the month. This way you can plan a system more accurately. An example device is shown below. https://sonoffafrica.co.za/product/sonoff-pow-ring-smart-power-meter/ No R250. Working and living outside SA has its advantages. On my system in SA I'm just going all out. 16KW inverter, 21 550w pannels and 30kw storage
January 25, 20251 yr 15 minutes ago, BarendD said: Referring to the supply you get from the municipality. Residential building only gets 60A supply Yip, limit is 60A. But based on my understanding there is some variance allowed. Pulling more than 60A for extended time will cause issues... Good idea is to switch-off the geysers when starting the oven 😉 Buy yes there are some homes that will exceed this limit
January 25, 20251 yr Wow, my basic connection charge (MCB charge 50A) is more than 4x that amount, before I even use 1 kW/h. 8 minutes ago, BarendD said: On my system in SA I'm just going all out. 16KW inverter, 21 550w pannels and 30kw storage Sounds like a good residential system in South Africa to leave Eskom behind.
January 25, 20251 yr 41 minutes ago, BarendD said: Referring to the supply you get from the municipality. Residential building only gets 60A supply What we sometimes forget is the residential main DB has a 60A MCB. Up stream from the house grading is used so the residence would trip before the up stream towards the source. Practical as less call outs from the supply authority. Thus the source side would typical have a 70/80A breaker. I hear you when you say how do people get along on 60A. Easy if you manage energy used. In the portion of my house where the 2 of us live there is the normal kitchen appliances but never more than 3 on at the same time. We have never tripped the main 30A breaker. Yes this excludes Aircons, pool pump and heater, lawn mower, welding machine etc. These are fed from the main DB at 60A. All items that must be on a earth leakage have never tripped the 40A unit on overload. Only tripped due to moisture on extensions(joints) or water in an outside light aperture. No gas equipment but for a single stove plate if needed for boiling water. Edited January 25, 20251 yr by Scorp007
January 25, 20251 yr Author 35 minutes ago, TimCam said: An example device is shown below. https://sonoffafrica.co.za/product/sonoff-pow-ring-smart-power-meter/ Been looking at them now. Didn't know they exist. You just saved me so much money. Wifi/RF switches I was going to use is R1k+ a switch. They sell 4 channel switches for R800. Im going complete smart home and until now I needed about 5 apps to run everything. They sell everything I need and everything runs off 1 app! THANK YOU!!!
January 25, 20251 yr Author 11 minutes ago, Scorp007 said: What we sometimes forget is the residential main DB has a 60A MCB. Up stream from the house grading is used so the residence would trip before the up stream towards the source. Practical as less call outs from the supply authority. Thus the source side would typical have a 70/80A breaker. I hear you when you say how do people get along on 60A. Easy if you manage energy used. In the portion of my house where the 2 of us live there is the normal kitchen appliances but never more than 3 on at the same time. We have never tripped the main 30A breaker. Yes this excludes Aircons, pool pump and heater, lawn mower, welding machine etc. These are fed from the main DB at 60A. All items that must be on a earth leakage have never tripped the 40A unit on overload. Only tripped due to moisture on extensions(joints) or water in an outside light aperture. No gas equipment but for a single stove plate if needed for boiling water. My oven alone on full till pulls 33A. I have advised my builder and we pulling special cabling from the DB just for that. I'm not sure I'm ever going to use the oven on full tilt but rather safe than sorry. Specs attached
January 25, 20251 yr 3 minutes ago, BarendD said: Been looking at them now. Didn't know they exist. You just saved me so much money. Great to have helped, especially if it saves hard earned money. This powerforum has also saved me a lot too, so thumbs up to the system ops and users. 👍
January 26, 20251 yr Put in induction stove top Uses much less power Put smaller element in your geyser and turn the geyser down to 53 deg and put a timer on geyser to only run when you are sleeping Also you can add a solar geyser panel to your existing geyser , then your geyser will use almost no power except on cloudy days when the normal element will have to work, or add a dedicated solar panel and a solar element to your existing geyser which should work out cheaper than the solar geyser panel, downside is no sun no hot water Also almost no one uses ovens anymore With the new air fryer ovens you get they are the way to go and use typically 1200w-1600w instead of 4Kw that a oven typically uses Edited January 26, 20251 yr by paul99
January 26, 20251 yr Author 4 hours ago, paul99 said: Put in induction stove top Uses much less power Put smaller element in your geyser and turn the geyser down to 53 deg and put a timer on geyser to only run when you are sleeping Also you can add a solar geyser panel to your existing geyser , then your geyser will use almost no power except on cloudy days when the normal element will have to work, or add a dedicated solar panel and a solar element to your existing geyser which should work out cheaper than the solar geyser panel, downside is no sun no hot water Also almost no one uses ovens anymore With the new air fryer ovens you get they are the way to go and use typically 1200w-1600w instead of 4Kw that a oven typically uses Gas stove top already included. Ovens pull 7250w. Anyone that wants to cooks half a decent meal still uses an oven. Air fryer can't bake bread or do anything big enough for entertainment days. My wife uses her air fryer oven. 2 x solar geysers each with only a 2kw electric element to heat to a normal temp where you can shower but WC has terrible winters where solar geysers isn't worth much. Can't add dedicated solar pannels because my entire roof is almost covered in pannels and estates has insane regulations for what you allowed.
January 26, 20251 yr 2 hours ago, BarendD said: Ovens pull 7250w Go full gas stove, my wife was used to ac stove, the learning curve to use gas in the same way is quite quick ... just 2 or 3 burned breads etc 🤣
January 26, 20251 yr Author 14 minutes ago, Demo said: Go full gas stove, my wife was used to ac stove, the learning curve to use gas in the same way is quite quick ... just 2 or 3 burned breads etc 🤣 It's a hand build custom stove. I was stupid when I ordered it to go all electric on the oven side. Sould have gone 2 electric and 1 gas. By the time I realised my mistake it was in a container on its way from France. Edited January 26, 20251 yr by BarendD
January 26, 20251 yr 7 hours ago, BarendD said: Gas stove top already included. Ovens pull 7250w. Anyone that wants to cooks half a decent meal still uses an oven. Air fryer can't bake bread or do anything big enough for entertainment days. My wife uses her air fryer oven. 2 x solar geysers each with only a 2kw electric element to heat to a normal temp where you can shower but WC has terrible winters where solar geysers isn't worth much. Can't add dedicated solar pannels because my entire roof is almost covered in pannels and estates has insane regulations for what you allowed. Luckily my single over only uses 1.8kW and does have the option to use the fan or not. My twisted brain cells just love my heat pump which uses just over 1.2kW to heat water. Easy to run from solar and it has been doing it for 14 yrs. No element to assist has ever been connected up in Gauteng. Not up to date on modern stoves but I can still recall the free standing Defy stoves of decades ago with models like 424/425 I think were drawing just below 10kW for the 4 spiral plates, oven and warm drawer.
January 26, 20251 yr Author 11 minutes ago, Scorp007 said: Luckily my single over only uses 1.8kW and does have the option to use the fan or not. My twisted brain cells just love my heat pump which uses just over 1.2kW to heat water. Easy to run from solar and it has been doing it for 14 yrs. No element to assist has ever been connected up in Gauteng. Not up to date on modern stoves but I can still recall the free standing Defy stoves of decades ago with models like 424/425 I think were drawing just below 10kW for the 4 spiral plates, oven and warm drawer. I've been looking at the heat pump option. I have 2 geysers so that means 2 pumps increasing costs. Been trying to figure out of I should go single 400L with a heat pump or 150 and 200 and just add a gas booster geyser. That way I wouldn't need a element either. How big is your heat pump and geyser?
January 26, 20251 yr 2 hours ago, BarendD said: I've been looking at the heat pump option. I have 2 geysers so that means 2 pumps increasing costs. Been trying to figure out of I should go single 400L with a heat pump or 150 and 200 and just add a gas booster geyser. That way I wouldn't need a element either. How big is your heat pump and geyser? 4.7kw heating capacity and 1 x 150L geyser in use. The 2nd one is switched off. 150L geysers are the cheapest per litre capacity due to the high volumes. I would use 2 of them and if they are close together then you need only 1 heat pump.
January 26, 20251 yr Author 4 minutes ago, Scorp007 said: 4.7kw heating capacity and 1 x 150L geyser in use. The 2nd one is switched off. 150L geysers are the cheapest per litre capacity due to the high volumes. I would use 2 of them and if they are close together then you need only 1 heat pump. Thanks. They failry close together so could work. So will look into it. Any idea of what your actual consumption is on the HP per day/month? If it pulls 1.2kw but runs most of the day and a element only runs a couple of hours it would even out. Where you located? I have read they work better in warmer conditions
January 26, 20251 yr 2 hours ago, BarendD said: Thanks. They failry close together so could work. So will look into it. Any idea of what your actual consumption is on the HP per day/month? If it pulls 1.2kw but runs most of the day and a element only runs a couple of hours it would even out. Where you located? I have read they work better in warmer conditions The usage is below 45% of a element. It runs less than an hour 2 times a day. It must be one of the worst urban legends that a HP runs all the time. During summer it is actually faster than a 3kw element and should be as it transfers 4.7kw of heat to the water. The about 50min above is to heat from about 28 deg C to 55 deg. The run time cannot be calculated as it would be a function of the hot water used per day. A not so common stat is that during December we baked over 600 of these koekies and we used 12kWh of power in total. That was from 09h to 19h in the evening. Overall not so much power at R36 as people tend to indicate it's not worth baking koekies. The ingredients were the expensive bit. Example of koekies.
January 26, 20251 yr @BarendD My calculations done at the actual cost of running a heat pump up to 2022.
January 26, 20251 yr Author 1 hour ago, Scorp007 said: The usage is below 45% of a element. It runs less than an hour 2 times a day. It must be one of the worst urban legends that a HP runs all the time. During summer it is actually faster than a 3kw element and should be as it transfers 4.7kw of heat to the water. The about 50min above is to heat from about 28 deg C to 55 deg. I'm realising I know nothing. The more I read the less I understand. Does the cold water go into the heat pump or does the heated liquid run into the collector tank. How can you run 2 geysers on 1 pump? Cost would be insane but to get a 400/500L tank connected on both solar and HP would be the best option. Solar would be collector tubes with a small solar pump. You say you happy with yours. If I may ask what brand did you go for? Cookies looks amazing 🤣
January 27, 20251 yr 10 hours ago, BarendD said: I'm realising I know nothing. The more I read the less I understand. Does the cold water go into the heat pump or does the heated liquid run into the collector tank. How can you run 2 geysers on 1 pump? Cost would be insane but to get a 400/500L tank connected on both solar and HP would be the best option. Solar would be collector tubes with a small solar pump. You say you happy with yours. If I may ask what brand did you go for? Cookies looks amazing 🤣 You will read a lot of junk from people bashing heat pumps while they have never used them. Sometimes best to ask those that have been using them. Myself and @Bobster. have been using them for over 10 yrs and do know how little power they use. I even heat my geyser from batteries if I have to and I only use a small 2.4kW Axpert. I just ensure I switch off my fridges via smart switches for the 1 hour when heating to prevent overload on the inverter. Water is just circulated through the unit that transfers heat. Some of the pool HP are using as little as 10% power compared to an element. One forum member indicated his pool HP adds 1deg per hour to his open pool of 4x7m. He runs it of solar. All HP quote their COP factor. This shows the actual efficiency factor. Most pumps are around 3-4 for older units like mine. I have what I rate one of the better makes being a ITS but they must be installed by their approved plumbers. Mine is long past the normal life cycle and working fine. Locally designed. I only had to change the pump as the original installer did not fit a strainer back in 2011. Edited January 27, 20251 yr by Scorp007
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