So I realized that I am going to have to basically throw away the money I have spent on my first volta battery due to incompatibility with the new gen batteries. Spent 23k 3 years ago.

Since I have now upgraded my system with more panels I am ready to take the next step to going completely off grid (In the future).

So now my question is, what battery should I buy to replace the Volta stage 1.

So far the Dyness powerbrick seems like a good choice, according to the manufacturers their BMS will remain compatible for at least the next 4 years.

They also seem fairly inexpensive per Kw compared to other options.

What are your thoughts?

I was thinking of selling the Volta, but prices has dropped so drastically that this does not seem feasible, as the Loss would be huge.

In stead of doing that Im considering buying a cheap 3kw growatt ( or similar) inverter, and connecting the volta to that and a few JA panels and then running this as a separate off grid system, for my swimming pool and pressure pump and then also adding a change over switch to connect that setup to my generator input on the deye inverter (for when I really need to extra 5kw ;)

Your input would be greatly appreciated.

My current system: 5Kw Deye inverter, 5Kw Volta stage 1 (Old Gen), 6 550W JA panels on string 1 and 4 600W JA panels on string 2

Edited November 22, 2025Nov 22 by SulacoMcClaw
Typo

PS: the idea is to buy and install a total of about 40Kwh over the next 4 years.

2 hours ago, SulacoMcClaw said:

So I realized that I am going to have to basically throw away the money I have spent on my first volta battery due to incompatibility with the new gen batteries. Spent 23k 3 years ago.

Since I have now upgraded my system with more panels I am ready to take the next step to going completely off grid (In the future).

So now my question is, what battery should I buy to replace the Volta stage 1.

So far the Dyness powerbrick seems like a good choice, according to the manufacturers their BMS will remain compatible for at least the next 4 years.

They also seem fairly inexpensive per Kw compared to other options.

What are your thoughts?

I was thinking of selling the Volta, but prices has dropped so drastically that this does not seem feasible, as the Loss would be huge.

In stead of doing that Im considering buying a cheap 3kw growatt ( or similar) inverter, and connecting the volta to that and a few JA panels and then running this as a separate off grid system, for my swimming pool and pressure pump and then also adding a change over switch to connect that setup to my generator input on the deye inverter (for when I really need to extra 5kw ;)

Your input would be greatly appreciated.

My current system: 5Kw Deye inverter, 5Kw Volta stage 1 (Old Gen), 6 550W JA panels on string 1 and 4 600W JA panels on string 2

You would need a cheap 48V inverter. The Navasolar ones retail for 4k and are 5kW. I would get that and as you say, run your pool pump and non essentials with a few panels (2 or 3 would suffice).

I wouldn’t let go of the battery. I by waste the money? And you can get a lot of years of service out of it.

then get your Dyness power brick.

2 minutes ago, Denns said:

You would need a cheap 48V inverter. The Navasolar ones retail for 4k and are 5kW. I would get that and as you say, run your pool pump and non essentials with a few panels (2 or 3 would suffice).

I wouldn’t let go of the battery. I by waste the money? And you can get a lot of years of service out of it.

then get your Dyness power brick.

Yea, that does make sense, now if only someone in KZN had stock of the Dyness battery I'd be delighted LOL, seems everyone has sold out. Im currently pushing back waaayyyy more power than I am using, and i would rather store that for a rainy day "Literally" and get completely away from that corrupt company / SOE

6 minutes ago, Denns said:

I wouldn’t let go of the battery. I by waste the money? And you can get a lot of years of service out of it.

That's absolutely correct, that battery has only drained to 20% once since I bought it, we basically just used it as loadshedding backup for the two businesses.

So it has really only cycled once in 3 years.... another 5999 cycles left to go HEHEH

can't you buy a Volta old generation

On 2025/11/22 at 4:13 PM, Denns said:

You would need a cheap 48V inverter. The Navasolar ones retail for 4k and are 5kW. I would get that and as you say, run your pool pump and non essentials with a few panels (2 or 3 would suffice).

I wouldn’t let go of the battery. I by waste the money? And you can get a lot of years of service out of it.

then get your Dyness power brick.

Before you ditch the current battery if the new and old have the same cell count you can always 1st try using voltage control instead of the 100% solution using comms. Here is my graph where I use 3 totally different makes and vintage on my Deye 5kW.

5 minutes ago, Scorp007 said:

Before you ditch the current battery if the new and old have the same cell count you can always 1st try using voltage control instead of the 100% solution using comms. Here is my graph where I use 3 totally different makes and vintage on my Deye 5kW.

Some guys complain of premature voltage cut off when a large load is turned on with voltage mode due to sag. I guess thats why they prefer the comms as the battery SOC is more accurately determined?

2 minutes ago, Denns said:

Some guys complain of premature voltage cut off when a large load is turned on with voltage mode due to sag. I guess thats why they prefer the comms as the battery SOC is more accurately determined?

As the OP has a end state of 40kwh of batteries from a 5kw inverter then sag will ever be a problem. Each battery will only be supplying about 13A on average. If there is sag then batteries are no longer in good health.

5 minutes ago, Scorp007 said:

As the OP has a end state of 40kwh of batteries from a 5kw inverter then sag will ever be a problem. Each battery will only be supplying about 13A on average. If there is sag then batteries are no longer in good health.

True. He should have little to no sag at all, so it definitely is an option to use voltage mode.

On 2025/11/23 at 6:52 AM, Tariq said:

can't you buy a Volta old generation

Since I eventually want to have about 40Kw in battery backup, I would need to buy 7 old gen Volta's today, at approx 18k each, that is a bit pricey considering that id be buying "Out of date stock" with very little support from the supplier as they want to focus on the new gen batteries.

The last shipment of the old gens arrived early this month, and the suppliers are reaming customers buying the old gen as it is essentially a captured market.

I really dont want to deal with a company that allows that kind of thing to occur.

Much better to change brand and start fresh.

2 hours ago, Denns said:

True. He should have little to no sag at all, so it definitely is an option to use voltage mode.

I really need so more info on voltage mode... sounds like an interesting option...

How does it work, how do I implement it, and how far can it scale?

14 hours ago, SulacoMcClaw said:

I really need so more info on voltage mode... sounds like an interesting option...

How does it work, how do I implement it, and how far can it scale?

Its not a bad option but I dont like it. Your SOC is estimated so your inverter wont know the true SOC of your batteries. Think of Voltage mode as the same system that inverters use to charge LA batteries. Not the same charging curves but its the same principle.

With comms, things like temperature of the cells, actual SOC, inverter gets info from all the battery BMS. Theoretically the batteries will last longer if there is comms since it can control charging and discharging current with info like temperature.

But plenty use voltage mode because of the issues you are getting into so I guess its not that bad.

As for scaling there is not theoretical limit I am aware off. Can add as many batteries as you want. Just charges them slower which would also be the case with comms.

14 hours ago, SulacoMcClaw said:

Since I eventually want to have about 40Kw in battery backup, I would need to buy 7 old gen Volta's today, at approx 18k each, that is a bit pricey considering that id be buying "Out of date stock" with very little support from the supplier as they want to focus on the new gen batteries.

The last shipment of the old gens arrived early this month, and the suppliers are reaming customers buying the old gen as it is essentially a captured market.

I really dont want to deal with a company that allows that kind of thing to occur.

Much better to change brand and start fresh.

Have you considered DIY lithium battery banks? You would never run into these issues since when you want to upgrade for example you just replace the BMS (JK is common) on each battery if you cant get comms. Its actually a decent way of staying up to date. The cells you only replace the ones that fail which is way easier on DIY banks. With pre-built you have to deal with waiting for things to be repaired, BMS going old and not being supported etc.

DIY is like Lego, you take the pieces you dont want and add the stuff you do. But it does require you to be a hands on person and if you not comfortable with electricity and stuff like that then pre-built is the way.

I am also cutting the cable to the house. Waiting for the 12th for work to close and then I will have time to go to their offices and do the process. When my GEL batteries pack up I will do a DIY battery bank. Gunning for 30 to 40kWh also. Probably in the next 3 years. The savings from being off-grid will easily allow me to spend the money for such a battery bank.

14 hours ago, SulacoMcClaw said:

The change to voltage control is real quick. Ensure the battery values are filled in under battery setting.

The decide on levels to use grid under the system menu and press the down arrow. Then tick the right arrow after setting and then out of the menus

I am off grid 95% of the time. Even with the rain today I might only switch on my Grid via remote if my SOC drops to 35%. We have a stable grid so power outage is never a major consideration but I do keep some battery in reserve.

Today I a very bad day for me. Lots of cloud and rain 😀 but I forgot to switch off a stove plate so drawing 1000W every about 15min.😊

14 hours ago, SulacoMcClaw said:

How does it work, how do I implement it, and how far can it scale?

Edited November 25, 2025Nov 25 by Scorp007

44 minutes ago, Denns said:

Have you considered DIY lithium battery banks? You would never run into these issues since when you want to upgrade for example you just replace the BMS (JK is common) on each battery if you cant get comms. Its actually a decent way of staying up to date. The cells you only replace the ones that fail which is way easier on DIY banks. With pre-built you have to deal with waiting for things to be repaired, BMS going old and not being supported etc.

DIY is like Lego, you take the pieces you dont want and add the stuff you do. But it does require you to be a hands on person and if you not comfortable with electricity and stuff like that then pre-built is the way.

I am also cutting the cable to the house. Waiting for the 12th for work to close and then I will have time to go to their offices and do the process. When my GEL batteries pack up I will do a DIY battery bank. Gunning for 30 to 40kWh also. Probably in the next 3 years. The savings from being off-grid will easily allow me to spend the money for such a battery bank.

Why would you not want to use the existing BMS that is still functioning well even if there is no comms to the inverter when using voltage mode?

The BMS can still perform the switching off during over current or too low discharge of any cell.

Also for some the 100% correct SOC is important and others not. Even with the rain my early morning SOC is shown as over 45% and even if it is 35% for a 10% error I still don't need grid and if there are a few hours of lighter clouds the battery will charge. My SOC drops about 23% from 00h00 to 06h30 when PV comes in. I am off grid most of the time. Aug before clouds I used only 4kWh from grid. This month it is standing at 14kWh. Cannot predict how much I might use but my inaccurate SOC will guide me when to activate my Grid to help.

I have found if I do have my Grid on to ensure battery makes it to PV generation this bit of grid is normally less than 500Wh. It all has to do with knowing the loads used and managing the system. Never has to guess as the APP gives good guidance 24/7.

2 hours ago, Scorp007 said:

Why would you not want to use the existing BMS that is still functioning well even if there is no comms to the inverter when using voltage mode?

The BMS can still perform the switching off during over current or too low discharge of any cell.

Also for some the 100% correct SOC is important and others not. Even with the rain my early morning SOC is shown as over 45% and even if it is 35% for a 10% error I still don't need grid and if there are a few hours of lighter clouds the battery will charge. My SOC drops about 23% from 00h00 to 06h30 when PV comes in. I am off grid most of the time. Aug before clouds I used only 4kWh from grid. This month it is standing at 14kWh. Cannot predict how much I might use but my inaccurate SOC will guide me when to activate my Grid to help.

I have found if I do have my Grid on to ensure battery makes it to PV generation this bit of grid is normally less than 500Wh. It all has to do with knowing the loads used and managing the system. Never has to guess as the APP gives good guidance 24/7.

You misunderstood me. You are using voltage mode because you cant get your batteries to talk to each other. You cant open you batteries to replace the BMS can you? No. For people that are bothered by not having comms, if they had a DIY battery bank. All you have to do is replace the BMS to the newest one and get all of them to talk to each other. No running on voltage mode. I didnt say that there is anything wrong with the BMS, I am only talking about the upgrading that people typically do. Pre built batteries limit you on what you can do wheareas DIY allows you to do whatever you want.

Pre-buit battery banks are very limiting. A cell fails, you have to send it back and if out of warranty you have throw it away. BMS cant talk to each other because of age differences? You have to run voltage mode.

DIY, cell fails you replace the one cell. BMS are not compatible, just replace the old BMS with new ones and you can talk to the new inverter or new battery.

To me, voltage mode is just a patch for a system that isn't working well together due to incompatibility differences.

Edited November 25, 2025Nov 25 by Denns

25 minutes ago, Denns said:

You misunderstood me. You are using voltage mode because you cant get your batteries to talk to each other. You cant open you batteries to replace the BMS can you? No. For people that are bothered by not having comms, if they had a DIY battery bank. All you have to do is replace the BMS to the newest one and get all of them to talk to each other. No running on voltage mode. I didnt say that there is anything wrong with the BMS, I am only talking about the upgrading that people typically do. Pre built batteries limit you on what you can do wheareas DIY allows you to do whatever you want.

Pre-buit battery banks are very limiting. A cell fails, you have to send it back and if out of warranty you have throw it away. BMS cant talk to each other because of age differences? You have to run voltage mode.

DIY, cell fails you replace the one cell. BMS are not compatible, just replace the old BMS with new ones and you can talk to the new inverter or new battery.

To me, voltage mode is just a patch for a system that isn't working well together due to incompatibility differences.

I have 2 complete batteries with their BMS and the previous owner dumped them due to comms and other related issues. No warranty but cells still usable. Those with welded studs is a problem. Some other threaded studs you can replace cells. Its all design related. But yes we live in a throw away age for most consumers. Some will change just because they don't look the same. Normally it does not go down well at a braai if you don't have the Best system😊

13 minutes ago, Scorp007 said:

I have 2 complete batteries with their BMS and the previous owner dumped them due to comms and other related issues. No warranty but cells still usable. Those with welded studs is a problem. Some other threaded studs you can replace cells. Its all design related. But yes we live in a throw away age for most consumers. Some will change just because they don't look the same. Normally it does not go down well at a braai if you don't have the Best system😊

Hahaha true. Solar has become a stick measuring contest. I do get some ridicule for having GEL batteries, but I run the house 100% off-grid with them. The ones ridiculing me can't last one spell of rain and have to switch to the grid.

16 minutes ago, Denns said:

The ones ridiculing me can't last one spell of rain and have to switch to the grid.

Your night-load must be next to nothing to only use about 40% of that lead acids? If i remember correctly you mentioned in a different thread that your overnight load is ±40% ?

You are a brave man to trust that lead acids!

16 minutes ago, Demo said:

Your night-load must be next to nothing to only use about 40% of that lead acids? If i remember correctly you mentioned in a different thread that your overnight load is ±40% ?

You are a brave man to trust that lead acids!

In the year I have had them, the lowest they have dropped to is bout 65% SOC. This was after almost 4 days of rain. Almost every morning, I sit at around 80% SOC, so I'm only draining about 20%. For my battery bank, it's about 2.5kWh. You are right, I don't use much at night. Most of the loads are run during the day. The house averages about 8kWh a day, excluding the geyser. The geyser is on a geyser controller.

I have a very efficient house, which took a bit of work to get it to that point. It was way cheaper to do that than to build a humongous battery bank. Dishwasher, washing machine, pool, and fish pond pumps run during the day. With TV, laptops and gaming PC off, my baseload is only 70W at night.

I trust the batteries lol. They run the microwave, kettle, etc, just fine at night. Haven't noticed a drop in capacity yet in the year I have had them. They already paid for themselves with the savings, so whenever their capacity drops, I will have enough money for Lithium, but based on the 20% discharge I do every night, I will easily get to 5 years of use according to the DOD vs cycle life (should get around 2500 cycles), so I still have another 3 to 4 years left.

It's just a case of understanding the battery chemistry, which most people don't bother learning. I have a 125A DC breaker, which limits the current for each parallel battery string to 25A, so I can never pull more than the recommended amps from each battery (I can go as high as 3kW at any instant). I have battery balancers. And I sized the bank to cater for 20% DOD usage at night, not the 50% as that would only give you some 2 years of capacity.

My array also generates 3x what the house needs on a daily basis. With the pool pumps off, 5 times more. So when the clouds hit, I only need 20% of the generation to meet my load.

47 minutes ago, Denns said:

In the year I have had them, the lowest they have dropped to is bout 65% SOC. This was after almost 4 days of rain. Almost every morning, I sit at around 80% SOC, so I'm only draining about 20%. For my battery bank, it's about 2.5kWh. You are right, I don't use much at night. Most of the loads are run during the day. The house averages about 8kWh a day, excluding the geyser. The geyser is on a geyser controller.

I have a very efficient house, which took a bit of work to get it to that point. It was way cheaper to do that than to build a humongous battery bank. Dishwasher, washing machine, pool, and fish pond pumps run during the day. With TV, laptops and gaming PC off, my baseload is only 70W at night.

I trust the batteries lol. They run the microwave, kettle, etc, just fine at night. Haven't noticed a drop in capacity yet in the year I have had them. They already paid for themselves with the savings, so whenever their capacity drops, I will have enough money for Lithium, but based on the 20% discharge I do every night, I will easily get to 5 years of use according to the DOD vs cycle life (should get around 2500 cycles), so I still have another 3 to 4 years left.

It's just a case of understanding the battery chemistry, which most people don't bother learning. I have a 125A DC breaker, which limits the current for each parallel battery string to 25A, so I can never pull more than the recommended amps from each battery (I can go as high as 3kW at any instant). I have battery balancers. And I sized the bank to cater for 20% DOD usage at night, not the 50% as that would only give you some 2 years of capacity.

My array also generates 3x what the house needs on a daily basis. With the pool pumps off, 5 times more. So when the clouds hit, I only need 20% of the generation to meet my load.

That's very efficient. So is that geyser not using any mains?

I have full gas stove, and like you my household has got into the discipline of doing all the electrical work in the day. My water heating does use electricity, but it's a heat pump, so much less than a regular geyser. But your evening load is something to behold. I can't below about 130. On the odd occasion that I do get below that my inverter gets all insulted at this puny demand and hands over to the grid. I could probably save 30 or 40 W by not running the outside lights, but this serves the double purpose of being a deterrent and making it harder for me to fall into the swimming pool at night.

Thinks: Must get busy with HA now and see if I can program the inverter to switch into off-grid mode at night.

1 minute ago, Bobster. said:

That's very efficient.

I am split on this. I'd already driven my power consumption down a bit by the time I got solar.

One effect of this is that it reduces my savings. If our property were consuming 5 kWh a day more the sums would look a bit better.

But OTOH it means we can get a lot further with what we have. My battery is seldom below 50% when the sun is coming up. So if the worst case happened: Overcast early morning, no grid. I could get through to probably 12:00 as the pool pump won't be running (non-essential) and I can run around turning other stuff off. Also my inverter doesn't have to work so hard as most days the battery is charged by 11:00 and after that it's just servicing loads.

17 minutes ago, Bobster. said:

That's very efficient. So is that geyser not using any mains?

I have full gas stove, and like you my household has got into the discipline of doing all the electrical work in the day. My water heating does use electricity, but it's a heat pump, so much less than a regular geyser. But your evening load is something to behold. I can't below about 130. On the odd occasion that I do get below that my inverter gets all insulted at this puny demand and hands over to the grid. I could probably save 30 or 40 W by not running the outside lights, but this serves the double purpose of being a deterrent and making it harder for me to fall into the swimming pool at night.

Thinks: Must get busy with HA now and see if I can program the inverter to switch into off-grid mode at night.

I have a timer that runs the geyser off the inverter for 30 minutes a day (because of the rain, etc, the geyser controller output is reduced a bit, so I use the excess from the inverter to top up). I do like heatpumps, they were just a bit too pricey compared to my controller, otherwise I suspect it's the best solution. Otherwise, the geyser is heated by a Geyser controller connected to its own panels. If I added the Geyser to the kWh usage a day for the home, it comes to about 15kWh. Also have gas cooking like you.

I was actually around your consumption at one stage (110 to 150W). But I replaced all the outside lights with high-power motion sensor ones (they detect movement up to 20 meters away). They are 25W and only come on when someone walks past or a car drives past. I press a button on the remote to keep them on if I want to have a look at something outside, then switch them off again and let them run off the motion sensor.

I would have imagined your inverter should only switch to the grid when it hits the battery cut-off. Interesting that it does that with a low load.

Edited November 25, 2025Nov 25 by Denns

21 minutes ago, Bobster. said:

I am split on this. I'd already driven my power consumption down a bit by the time I got solar.

One effect of this is that it reduces my savings. If our property were consuming 5 kWh a day more the sums would look a bit better.

But OTOH it means we can get a lot further with what we have. My battery is seldom below 50% when the sun is coming up. So if the worst case happened: Overcast early morning, no grid. I could get through to probably 12:00 as the pool pump won't be running (non-essential) and I can run around turning other stuff off. Also my inverter doesn't have to work so hard as most days the battery is charged by 11:00 and after that it's just servicing loads.

Believe it or not, I actually averaged about 900kWh a month before getting solar. With solar, not counting the geyser, I use about 200 to 250kWh a month (Monthly PV generation for this month is about 900kWh). Geyser when I had it on the grid was about 200kWh a month so in total now about 450kWh. Halved my consumption!

As for the savings, its true it does look nice on a spreadsheet to have big savings by inflating the costs but I accepted it. Same way I accepted that 2/3 of my solar generation is wasted every day. But it saves me when the rain and clouds start.

Here is my consumption for the month.