AHA!!!

 

That makes a lot of sense now SuperDIY. Baie dankie.

 

So am I right in saying, if you have spurts of 6kw usage, 3kw of that will come from solar power, all things being equal, or 2kw from solar and 1kw from batts, resulting in only 3kw drawn from Eskom?

In other words, you save all the way not having to bother, for I also have a separate circuit for inverter only goeters.

 

I presume the Imeon can be set to not charge the batteries from Eskom?

Yes charging preference can be set.

 

I've again went through most of the documentation that I could find to make sure that I understand it correctly myself.

 

Basically is short what I could make out is. 

Max DC converted to AC is 3kw, doesn't matter the combination...

 

Max AC able to be delivered is 6kw, and because of the above a max of 3 of the 6kw can be supplied from DC (or all that's available up until 3kw), the rest from AC.

 

So in other words when at night where you have zero PV and the batteries have reached their discharge limit you should still be able to pull 6kw straight from the grid! Please correct me if I'm wrong...

 

So this would mean that it's infact a 6kw hybrid unit with a 3kw inverter inside, and that if grid is available it will always be able to deliver a max of 6kw...

I might have understood it wrong in that I thought when no DC is available it will only be able to supply 3kw from the grid, but according to documentation and as superdiy mentioned, it looks like 6kw all the time regardless, as long as the grid is available?

 

Think I'll have to start saving for one... as some of you have already said earlier, it makes splitting some of the loads in your DB unnecessary...

I'd be curious how it determines the mix of energy sources. If I have really bad batteries (you know, the kind that does storage at R4.50 per kwh) I might want that mix to include 0% battery, for example :-)

 

It sounds similar to Victron's Hub-4 (grid-parallel battery), which also allows such mixing, although you have to tell the inverter using either the CCGX or your own control system how you want this to be done. There is no intelligence on their inverters for this.

"4.2

Good point Plonkster.

 

Can the Imeon be set, at night, to:

Only use i.e. 10% batts if there is Eskom, thereafter using only Eskom?

And if no Eskom, only then use batts?

Or does it use zero batts at night?

 

And does it calculate a SOC? Using voltages? 

TTT

 

According to the manual you can enable or disable the discharge at night only function.

 

In addition to that you can set two different DOD's, DOD with grid, and DOD without grid. DOD = degree of discharge?

Edit: wiki says if Depth of Discharge

 

Not sure what he uses to calculate...

 

Edit: thinks it might use voltage but certainly not a linear calculation. You can set it for lead acid or litium batts, should have different curves that it uses to do the calculations. If it's really clever it will adjust the curves after some operation to fit the specific batts. But I'm not sure it's that clever... but then again a non linear calculation should be sufficient enough. You might find that when the bats gets old you might loose some capacity, so the DOD will then obviously be that of the current capacity... meaning that when 20% DOD with a new batt gives 4kwh of energy to use, as the batt gets older the 4kwh will reduce with the capacity of the battery...

I presume the Imeon can be set to not charge the batteries from Eskom?

 

I'm not sure about that, but I would assume so, since you can do that on the infini and the Imeon can do everything the infini can and more...

mmmm ... I am very particular on how SOC is calculated.

IMEON also uses battery voltages to determine SOC, so DOD is based on batt volts, does not work so well.

Also particular on how much batts can be used, and recharged, when the sun shines (for clouds or late afternoons), batts never to be recharged by Eskom and if there is no Eskom or sun, only then use them batts.

 

I.e.: My system is set to use 5% of the batts, SOC of 95% on BMV monitor.

Only when SOC is 100%, then switch off Eskom, so that all PV power can be used to recharge batts ASAP.

 

Why? So that:

- I can power stuff during the night down to SOC of +-87%.

- IF Eskom goes off, I have loads of spare power.

My batts will last me +-10 years, for I am well within the 20% DOD for 4000 cycles. 

 

Having said all that, Imeon sounds like a very good device. If it had a BMV in, with the above settings available, I would be getting one today (funds allowing).

TTT, as an aside, when I went to that Victron training day Andre explained to us a good reason why you might want to charge with Eskom power even if you have solar modules.

 

Suppose you just came out of a long load-shedding slot and the batteries took a bit of a beating. You could charge them with the sun, but that would take hours, and you need to be ready for tonight's load shedding. So what you would do is charge with your Multiplus/Quatro, but stop at the end of bulk (at 85% SoC more or less) and then take it the rest of the way with solar.

 

This has two upsides. One, you get your batteries back up to full very quickly, so there is less chance of sulphation in the long run, and two, a lead acid battery charges very efficiently up to about 85% (almost linear) and the peukert inefficiency only really manifests for that last bit. If you use (free?) solar for that, it's not so bad than if you use grid power.

IMEON: Daytime, 6 kW no problem when the grid is on. We talk about the normal output side of the inverter.

 

If the grid falls, you are limited to 3 kW on this output.

 

Split the loads in the DB to connect only critical loads on the inverter output side. The other loads, such as air-cons, electric stove, geysers etc., should be left connected to the grid.

Use the excess power in the day to power the grid connected devices by feeding back to the grid. With the old rotating disc kWh meter, this is still possible by careful balancing of the loads.

@Plonkster. Now I will definitely charge with a separate charger if we have regular load shedding. And I did not know about the 85% SOC, that you then switch back to solar.

 

Brilliant plan!

Been giving this some though, for my scenario, this thing called Imeon. 

 

It is a well designed machine. Good software I am told. Expensive, but a good piece of solid equipment.

 

But:

It works, as most if not all inverters, on volts for SOC / DOD.

If you expect power failures, it is advisable to only run 3kw max, for even though it can supply 6, if Eskom goes off, whilst 6kw is powered, it will stop dead. So, same as with other inverters, you need to be wise what you are powering and when.

And for me personally, it does not have all the features I value to get the maximum solar savings.

 

I think I will give it a pass for the moment. I like my Victron Phoenix inverter where I control it all.

Something VERY similar to the IMEON, but at half the price:

 

http://za.renesola.com/file/SouthAfrica/product/pdf/Replus%20SineON%20IH3KW-48-V-TDS%20low%20res.pdf

 

Anyone with first hand knowledge on this one?

It looks like a rebadged  InfiniSolar 3kW plus.

Specs look nice. Like it when inverter is Xkw, and MPPT can take more than that. 

It looks like a rebadged  InfiniSolar 3kW plus.

So it is the same trend as the Axpert, or is it Mecer, or RCT? 

 

@Plonkster: I have NEVER seen Victron rebranded. Have you? 

Something VERY similar to the IMEON, but at half the price:

 

http://za.renesola.com/file/SouthAfrica/product/pdf/Replus%20SineON%20IH3KW-48-V-TDS%20low%20res.pdf

 

Anyone with first hand knowledge on this one?

 

Yep, re-branded infini.

Yup looks like a rebranded infini...

 

What are your thoughts on the 5kva axperts comparing to the infini and the imeon? I mean it's a hell of a lot cheaper, and thus far the big differences looks to be the lack of good or any software to link a pc and obviously not being able to push back into the grid? But since it would have been a bit illegal for me to push back into the grid i'm not too worried about that...

 

Are there anyone currently running the 5kva axperts in the cape town area? And maybe two in parralel? Would really like to get some info from someone running them first hand on a daily basis...

Mike mentioned a while ago that he occasionally had loads of more than 4KW connected to the infini 3KW Plus he tested, so when I got home yesterday afternoon I thought I'd do some testing.

 

From a past experience I have overloaded the infini while we had loadshedding late on a Saturday afternoon - it tripped when the load was about 3.5KW, but auto-restarted and kept on tripping and restarting every few seconds until I lowered the load, so in yesterday's test I switched off all the circuit breakers to all the plug circuits except for the two circuits I've connected the test loads to - don't want to kill a fridge or something else because of the inverter switching on and off.

 

I then connected my toaster oven (for PC board soldering), a kettle full of water and a vacuum cleaner, all on the infini output while the GRID WAS AVAILABLE and while I still got just under 1KW from the PV panels - the infini handled the total load of just over 5KW without tripping and according to the KW meter I have installed between the infini and the grid, the infini drew the balance of about 4.2KW from the grid. It took about 4 minutes for the water to boil and then the load dropped to just below 3KW. 

 

Hope this helps a few people when they have to decide if it is worth while spending double the amount of cash on an Imeon...

 

Thumbs up for the infini.

superdiy

 

I was just going back to that same thread reading it again after also remembering something about that mike ran 5.1kw for 19 minutes with grid available without problem...

 

Do you have a communication card in your infini that enables you to view over the internet?

 

What does the infini 3kw plus go for these days?

superdiy

 

I was just going back to that same thread reading it again after also remembering something about that mike ran 5.1kw for 19 minutes with grid available without problem...

 

Do you have a communication card in your infini that enables you to view over the internet?

 

What does the infini 3kw plus go for these days?

 

Hi Willem, no I don't have a comms card - I just connect the infini via USB to a desktop occasionally.

 

There is one available under the classifieds section for R15500 - http://powerforum.co.za/classifieds/item/19-infini-3kw-inverter-r15-50000/

 

Quick google...

R17367.90 - http://www.bonanzatech.co.za/index.php?id_product=7894&controller=product

R17900 - http://ayatrading.co.za/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=57

R20583 - http://www.geewiz.co.za/rct-inverters/11638-rct-infinisolar-3kw-on-grid-inverter-with-energy-storage.html?search_query=infini&results=24

R21090 - http://www.solarsolved.co.za/index.php/products/inverters/hybrid-inverters-1/infini-plus-3000w-detail

???? - http://rtjdistributors.co.za/product/category/solar-inverters

Imeon sounds to me a like a brilliant idea, but, if you have constant loads above 3kw, it may become a issue.

It needs a feature you get on some Victrons i.e. 2 connections.

 

So, on the Imeon:

1) Connection 1 - Max 3kw: Keep this on, it will always be below 3kw
2) Connection 2 - Max 3kw: Keep this on if there is Eskom.

 

And then, if you exceed the load on a connection, the inverter must warn you for that connection, and then switch that connection off, not the whole unit.

 

This way, you save if you use 6kw with the Imeon supplementing from solar.

And if Eskom goes off, you have the stuff on that needs to be on, the rest off till Eskom comes back on.

 

So when will this become available?

 

 I guess with this being my summer use, although this is one of the lower days I should be fine with the infini... Winter is a bit worse but should still stay under 2.5 kw continues and under 3.5 kw for short periods...

 

I would really like to remove that chunk from 11am till 16:00 (swimming pool) from the graph to start with.

 

In winter where my geyser needs some electricity to get up to temp I'll switch it on mid day when there's solar, swimming pool barely runs for a hour each day in winter... That way the afternoon peak will not be that high and inverter size can be smaller...

Using the Imeon of Infini look like a great idea for doing solar DIY, but if you have a prepaid meter can these inverters be programmed not to supply to the grid when batts are full.

Hi Pierre, welcome to the forum.

Yes, indeed, these inverters can be configured not to feed back to the grid.